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degeneration

Peregrine Ace MARD

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I can tell your from youtube video on facebook, that this is RIPOFF from my design.
I have send videos and pictures of my design to 2 persons and I have asked for opinion and I have asked if someone would be interested, if so that I would like to be payed for design.
Now somebody is selling this without even contacting me!! >:(

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jerolim

I can tell your from youtube video on facebook, that this is RIPOFF from my design.
I have send videos and pictures of my design to 2 persons and I have asked for opinion and I have asked if someone would be interested, if so that I would like to be payed for design.
Now somebody is selling this without even contacting me!! >:(



I hope you got some form of Intellectual Property protection, such as a Patent, for your design, then you may be able to get somewhere with getting paid for it. Without it...

And the video you posted is the one I saw, for some reason I didn't like to it.

Hopefully someone will have first hand knowledge of how the ACE system works, and therefore be able to confirm that it is your design, or not.
Sky Switches - Affordable stills camera tongue switches and conversion adaptors, supporting various brands of camera (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic).

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After looking at the packing instructions, I can see that this is made with common parts and could be fabricated in the field. It would be relatively easy to add it to most rigs. I wonder how long it will be till we see this happening?
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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jerolim

I can tell your from youtube video on facebook, that this is RIPOFF from my design.
I have send videos and pictures of my design to 2 persons and I have asked for opinion and I have asked if someone would be interested, if so that I would like to be payed for design.
Now somebody is selling this without even contacting me!! >:(



So are you paying royalties to bill booth for borrowing his idea?
Blue skies

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skydiverek

ACE packing manual is below. No Collins Lanyard (or similar device), correct?:

http://www.peregrinemfginc.com/resources/Manuals/ACE-PACKING-MANUAL.pdf



How is that ACE any different from the Boost from Wings?
Only replying to you, because you posted the manual ;)
"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

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My appologies, I have just seen manual for ACE. ACE is very similar to boost system.

It looked like it was mine device on bridle @2 minutes in ACE youtube video, but it is not. Sorry for reacting on this video. :)

Mine design is simpler and cleaner :P

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The device is exactly identical to the first prototype MARD system I designed years ago after seeing Jerry Baumchen 's RAX system. The only change I see aside from colours is that they attached the lanyard to the free bag. I abandoned that design mostly because of its complexity and there were some shortcomings.

I think if 3 of us can come up with the same design then it's going to fall under the obvious to a practitioner in the field part of intellectual property laws.

22 prototypes later I have a different system but ultimately the question remains if a MARD is worth anything. It's actually quite difficult to get patent protection over something like this because you need to show some novel innovations that set it aside from others. Oh yeah $20-$30k in legal costs. If you got $50 per rig sold with it you'd be further ahead working at a coffee shop.

There are many designs that work. They differ mostly in complexity and how reliably they keep the pilot chute captured after a MARD activation.

-Michael

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Hi Deyan,

Quote

How is that ACE any different from the Boost from Wings?



IMO, after reading their ACE manual, just some slight changes/'improvements.'

One thing that these two systems have in common is that the original container designs do have an inner top reserve flap. That is needed for a Skyhook or a RAX System to be mounted onto.

Jerry Baumchen

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Hi Michael,

Quote

after seeing Jerry Bauchman's RAX system



Uh, could we make that: Baumchen

Sheesh, Canadian schooling system. :P

Quote

They differ mostly in complexity



IMO this is very important. I have looked at nearly every MARD design out there ( that I could get my hands on ) and some of them are a lot of very specific steps for the rigger in the field to do exactly. Now, not that any rigger should do things not exactly as req'd, but the more complex designs lend themselves for errors in packing.

KISS anyone?

Jerry Baumchen

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jerolim


I have no idea or opinion about the containers they make, but they should definitely have their video-making privileges revoked. This is the worst turd of editing I've seen in quite a while.
"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

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Sorry Jerry, I was typing it from memory and I suppose it's lucky that I didn't remember it as Jonny Borken!

I agree with you as to simple. It's been a lot of years since I saw the prototype you sent to Andre but I had found a way to lock it up. That inspired me to make my own. For no other purpose than to solve the puzzle.

There are many ways to solve it and so far Booth has the most successful design because of simplicity and using mechanical leverage was very effective.

The pin based systems have their own challenges but I preferred it because of the weight and packing bulk.

I like the capture based system least as the failure mode isn't always pleasant. Bad things can also happen if a reserve riser gets pushed back into the rig with a packing paddle.

In any event, MARD systems are the norm now so I expect we will see many different revisions in the years to come.

-Michael

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hackish

There are many ways to solve it and so far Booth has the most successful design because of simplicity and using mechanical leverage was very effective.



Nothing is too simple to fuck up for a dedicated person! I don't remember the thread now, but someone mentioned the other day finding a DZ where the local rigger figured it'd be more "secure" to tack the Skyhook to the bridle not with the red thread, but with a piece of fishing line. Thankfully nobody had any totals before it was discovered. You'd think it'd be blindingly obvious why you want the Skyhook loop to slide off the hook piece easily, but clearly not to everyone.

I'd attribute Booth's MARD's success less to inherent technical simplicity, and more to the strength of Booth's rig-making brand and business, the fact it was first to market, and the fact they have a patent on the Collin's lanyard and won't license it separately from the Skyhook, even though there's absolutely nothing tying the two together on a technical level.
"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

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Hi Michael,

Quote

I saw the prototype you sent to Andre but I had found a way to lock it up.



I have had a number of people tell me that they have found a way to 'lock-up' the RAX System. So far none of them have been correct.

Contact me on: jerrybaumchen(at)gmail(dot)com

as I would like to know about how you did it.

Jerry Baumchen

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Rylan

***I can tell your from youtube video on facebook, that this is RIPOFF from my design.
I have send videos and pictures of my design to 2 persons and I have asked for opinion and I have asked if someone would be interested, if so that I would like to be payed for design.
Now somebody is selling this without even contacting me!! >:(



So are you paying royalties to bill booth for borrowing his idea?

His idea for what? MARD?
"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

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Plagiarism is rampant in the parachute industry.

There are only 3 basic patterns of MARD and other manufacturers shamelessly plagiarize successful designs.

The 3 basic patterns of MARD are: pin, hook and lasso.

The first pin-type MARD was designed by (Californian) Mark Hewitt (during the early 1990s) and installed in the Sorcerer BASE container.
Then (Frenchman) Eric Fradet refined the pin MARD and put it into production in Jerome Bunker's Advance skydiving rig.
A variety of people (Baumchen, etc.) have experimented with and refined variations on pin MARDs and they are now in production on Strong TNT, Wings Tandem, Peregrine, etc.

The second type of MARD is the Skyhook MARD invented by Bill Booth. Skyhooks are standard in Sigmas and licensed to a half-dozen other manufacturers: Aerodyne, Marrs, Sun Path, etc.

The third type of MARD is lasso. John Sherman experimented with lasso MARDs (circa 2000) but never perfected them. The bottom end of the RSL has a loop that captures the freebag bridle like a cowboy lassoing a cow. Mirage currently manufactures a lasso MARD.

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It's not plagiarism, it's using what works, and the fact there are only so many ways you can arrange a piece of webbing and some metal to make it do what you need. Nobody gets points for being least similar to others, quite the opposite, any self-respecting rigger will tell you to stay away from untried novelties. Inventions don't happen in a vacuum, and skydiving is all about polishing and refining good ideas until they have no remaining warts and are least likely to kill you.
"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

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Agreed!
Perfecting parachutes is all about polishing another man's idea.

For example, Domina Jalbert may have patented the ram-air parachute, but he needed gov't R&D money to test fly the idea.
So Proffessor Nicolades (sp?) applied for DARPA, CIA, etc development funds to work out the major bugs.
Mr. Higgins (at North American Aerodynamics) started "Jalbert Parafoil" production. NAA still makes updated Parafoils for precision landing competitors.
A chemical engineer invented low-stretch Dacron suspension lines.
Then a weaver figured out how to braid this new material into practical suspension lines.
Then Steve Snyder (Para-Flite) invented a way to eliminate keels hanging below the bottom skin.
Then Carl Yarbenet re-invented the slider.
Then Mr. Lissaman developed a special airfoil for ram-air parachutes.
The Mr. ......... refined old MIL SPEC fabric to make it 0-3 cubic feet per minute.
Etc.

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You are missing points in the timeline. One of which is the Jalbert Para-Sled was out before before the Para-Foil and worked on several different aspects of the design and others in ram-air parachutes.

And there is a significant bit incorrect information with your MARD timeline/statement but an NDA prevents me from correcting you on it at the moment.

Most of the history timelines are far more complex than a couple of points you can read in a book or simply try to slap together without a great deal of research.

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I think you may be missing the point here. It wasn't a precise referenced history, it was merely an illustration. Think of it as a sketch, not an oil painting.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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