Arguments for (or against) the existence of God

[gowlerk 1,903]

Quote

I am not sure that god can not be ruled out.

I know, the fact that you are not sure says much of what I mean. When I consider the possible existence of "God", I really mean some force or higher power that engineered what I perceive of the universe I live in. My conception of this power is very open ended and in no way resembles any God that any religion would recognize. It's just a recognition that the mystery of reality could have an unexpected answer that could be loosely called "God".

In other words, I don't really have a clue, so I will go with the available facts. Which leave room for almost anything.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[beowulf 1]

We have no evidence to support the idea that there is some "force or higher power that engineered" this world. If what you imagine does not resemble what is commonly defined as god then why do you call it that? It's far more honest and logically consistent to simply say I don't know then to try and come up with an answer like "higher power" or "force".

[rehmwa 2]

If anyone throws out the term "karma" during this discussion, I'm going to puke.

OK?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

In other words, I don't really have a clue, so I will go with the available facts. Which leave room for almost anything.

Not almost anything - everything. If you go down that line of reasoning there is nothing that is impossible, including the idea that none of us even exist.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,254]

rehmwa

If anyone throws out the term "karma" during this discussion, I'm going to puke.

Why would anyone do that? Why are you even thinking about it?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[beowulf 1]

Yeah I think that's bullshit also.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

beowulf

Yeah I think that's bullshit also.

I think of it more as Karma....

[rehmwa 2]

SkyDekker

***Yeah I think that's bullshit also.

I think of it more as Karma....

raccckkkkk, burrrgggg, arrrgghhh

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[gowlerk 1,903]

beowulf

We have no evidence to support the idea that there is some "force or higher power that engineered" this world. If what you imagine does not resemble what is commonly defined as god then why do you call it that? It's far more honest and logically consistent to simply say I don't know then to try and come up with an answer like "higher power" or "force".

You are correct, and that is largely how I feel. I only use those terms to describe possibilities. They don't represent my beliefs. "I don't know" is actually what I believe. All the rest is just speculation.

Why do I call it "God"? Because in every religion God is the creator, and that is my definition of God. Nothing more and nothing less.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[winsor 186]

gowlerk

***We have no evidence to support the idea that there is some "force or higher power that engineered" this world. If what you imagine does not resemble what is commonly defined as god then why do you call it that? It's far more honest and logically consistent to simply say I don't know then to try and come up with an answer like "higher power" or "force".

You are correct, and that is largely how I feel. I only use those terms to describe possibilities. They don't represent my beliefs. "I don't know" is actually what I believe. All the rest is just speculation.

Why do I call it "God"? Because in every religion God is the creator, and that is my definition of God. Nothing more and nothing less.

Look, it's pretty obvious that everything we see around us could not just have happened, without any reason, all by itself.

Clearly, the Universe was created intentionally by an omnipotent force.

-That is orders of magnitude more complex and extensive than anything we can detect.

-That provides no trace of its existence.

-That for no particular reason just kind of did all this.

I hope that answers any questions that might remain.

[jcd11235 0]

rehmwa

***4 - Don't believe by default, because there's no reason to even consider the possibility

Same as 2, YMMV.

No, it isn't. One can neither believe nor disbelieve in a concept one is not aware of.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[BIGUN 1,051]

Quote

Science and religion are two sides of the same deep human impulse to understand the world, to know our place in it, and to marvel at the wonder of life and the infinite cosmos we are surrounded by. Let’s keep them that way, and not let one attempt to usurp the role of the other.

http://time.com/77676/why-science-does-not-disprove-god/

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[rehmwa 2]

jcd11235

No, it isn't.

Withdrawing my "YMMV" comment as wasted understanding and tolerance

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[normiss 622]

Your comment reminded me of drunken history.

[rehmwa 2]

normiss

Your comment reminded me of drunken history.

Is that a show? (I'll google)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[beowulf 1]

Quote

Look, it's pretty obvious that everything we see around us could not just have happened, without any reason, all by itself.

No it's not obvious. It's very possible that this world could have developed naturally with out any omnipotent force directing it.

Quote

Clearly, the Universe was created intentionally by an omnipotent force.

Also false. There is no evidence to support that this universe was intentionally created by some unknown being.

Quote

-That is orders of magnitude more complex and extensive than anything we can detect.

-That provides no trace of its existence.

-That for no particular reason just kind of did all this.

If this being is entirely undetectable and leaves no trace then how do you know it exists? Just because this universe exists does not automatically mean there was some being that created it. You can't just assume.

[rehmwa 2]

Winsor was being wry, or funny. You might be preaching to the choir......so to speak

I suggest reading some Douglas Adams to get your 'wry meter' recalibrated


Edit: apparently the word I was looking for was satirical.....how about that?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[quade 3]

Here let me google that for you.

http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=what+is+satire%3F

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[beowulf 1]

ahh, missed that. It's hard to tell if someone is serious or not. Many religious people make those exact arguments. It's probably been more then a year since I have posted anything here.

I should have recognized Douglas Adams' writing. I have read the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

[winsor 186]

beowulf

ahh, missed that. It's hard to tell if someone is serious or not. Many religious people make those exact arguments. It's probably been more then a year since I have posted anything here.

I should have recognized Douglas Adams' writing. I have read the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

[gowlerk 1,903]

Quote

I hope that answers any questions that might remain.

Thank you! Thank you very much.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[beowulf 1]

Haven't read that one.

[billvon 2,391]

Quote

Look, it's pretty obvious that everything we see around us could not just have happened, without any reason, all by itself.

Clearly, the Universe was created intentionally by an omnipotent force.

-That is orders of magnitude more complex and extensive than anything we can detect.
-That provides no trace of its existence.
-That for no particular reason just kind of did all this.

And, I would add, that does not appreciate it when nosy busybodies go poking around with their telescopes and particle accelerators to try to answer their dumb questions.

[muff528 3]

jakee

Quote

In other words, I don't really have a clue, so I will go with the available facts. Which leave room for almost anything.

Not almost anything - everything. If you go down that line of reasoning there is nothing that is impossible, including the idea that none of us even exist.

...and also from beowulf's previous post: "We have no evidence that the mind can live with out a physical body."

Cool questions to ponder (at least to me, even if a bit crazy or meaningless in any kinda way that can be known.)!

Imagine an "observer" viewing the Universe from "outside". What could be "seen"? Would stars, planets, dark matter, "elementary" particles, chinchillas, and Toyota Coronas be seen as "we" see them? Is the existence of, and relationships (as we perceive them) among matter, energy, space, and time only a 4-dimensional manifestation of reality as felt, experienced, or seen by "things" residing within the Universe? Sort of an interpretation of the "way" the Universe "is" by things (matter, energy, etc.) that are affected by its physical laws. Why not 5, or 9 perceived dimensions? (I suppose that if we experienced a 5 dimensional world, we would ask "why not 4?".) Where does our "mind" or consciousness "go" after the lights go out? Is there really a "before" and "after"? Or is that just another of our perceptions resulting from our being part of the Universe.

[normiss 622]

Here is but one example.
Sounds humorous at first....sounds more like a few posters here after trying to endure a few episodes.
Aye dios mio indeed.



apologies for the drift...it was a long night