Thats it, these fuckers need to die!

[Botellines 0]

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Are you being serious? When was the last time you came to the US?

five years ago

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When was the last time you walked the streets of DC or NYC or any other big US city for that matter?

If we don´t consider Denver a big city 7 years ago, if not 5 years.

Why? are you telling me that anything has change lately?

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You really have no idea what you are talking about.

How so?

[Botellines 0]

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Wow.... Unbelievable.. Who the hell are you?

Rhino

What do you mean?

[funks 1]

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Ever been to Toronto? How about NYC? There are tons of different foriegn nationalities in both of these respective cities.

Unfortunately, i haven´t been in Toronto. However i have been in New york, lived for a short while in London, Edinburgh, and currently live in Madrid. I assure you that no matter how much inmigration you get from other countries if you don´t actually do something to mingle with them, you will not learn a bit from their culture. So that a country receives people from all sort of nacionalities doesn´t make automatically the natives culturally diverse. That is what i meant.

Well guess what? I do mingle with them. My wife is Arabic. Her entire family is from the Middle east. I am more involved with that culture then you are, trust me with that.

I have heard first hand stories about how fucked up that part of the world is. Stories from family members who live there and from family members that have visited recently.

You have pigeon holed americans as the ones who want to change that part of the world. You say we want to push our way of life on them. There are just as many people in the middle eastern countrys and people of those nationalities living in other countrys that agree shit needs to change for the better in that part of the world.

[funks 1]

If we were to walk away from the middle east right now and throw down our weapons the world would not need to worry about the US proactively targeting innocent civilians or committing cowardous acts of murder such as suicide bombings, etc....

That is why we need to unleash holy hell on these people. They cannot be trusted, they are a threat to the entire world. They are sadistic fuckers who are blinded by their bullshit view of religion.

[Botellines 0]

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Well I would say there is a difference. Al Quaeda DELIBERATELY attacked civilians. It wasn't collateral damage for them, it was the specific target.
But obivously you think this is a trivial distinction.

I never said it was a trivial distinction, I said, that if you look at the big picture it is a small distinction. Intentions are important, but only intentions is what makes a diference beetwen the U.S army and the terrorist. The result is inoccent deaths.
as an example, if a guy shoots someone he is charged with murder. If someone in a crowded bar have to shoot someone in self defence, but he also kills ten innocent guys who happened to be there, he is also charged with murder. Maybe the punishment will be less severe for the intentions, but he will go to jail.
Yes, there is a distinction, but i don´t think that distinction morally justifies 10.000 inocent casualties. Anyway, about the intentions... I have yet to see war supporters that honestly mourn the deaths of the innocent people from Irak.

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hmmm. well then let's just take your moral relativism to its logical conclusion.

since all wars throughout history have resulted in civilian deaths, I guess that means that all soldiers who ever fought are the moral equivalent of Al Quaeda, even the ones who fought against the fascists in WWII.

shame on all of us, I guess. Apparently there was no real difference between the Allies and the Nazis.

If you are being attacked, and you need to defend yourself, sometimes you have to put to the same level than the attacker. in WWII both sides bombed civilian targets. What i am against, is the moral rationalization of the subject to make war less repulsive to the average person.
If you on the TV say something like that since they do not value American lives you are going to do the same with Irak ciilians, you will not get much support for the war, however, if you rationalize the issue and make distinctions beetwen you and them, it will be much easier to support this war and sleep at night.

[Botellines 0]

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Well guess what? I do mingle with them. My wife is Arabic. Her entire family is from the Middle east. I am more involved with that culture then you are, trust me with that.

I wasn´t refering specifically about you, i was talking in general.
By the way, wouldn´t it be funny if i told you now i was arabic and therefore i was more involved with that culture? I will trust you with that since i am not

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I have heard first hand stories about how fucked up that part of the world is. Stories from family members who live there and from family members that have visited recently.

I agree with you there.

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You have pigeon holed americans as the ones who want to change that part of the world. You say we want to push our way of life on them. There are just as many people in the middle eastern countrys and people of those nationalities living in other countrys that agree shit needs to change for the better in that part of the world.

Maybe americans are not the only who want to change middle east, but they sure stick up above the rest. I think that some sort of change os needed in the middle east (as well as in some other countries that are not in the middle east?. The issue is: who decides what needs to be changed? at what cost?
It is not worth to go to war to change the lifestyle of other countries. Specially if they don´t want to change.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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That is why we need to unleash holy hell on these people. They cannot be trusted, they are a threat to the entire world. They are sadistic fuckers who are blinded by their bullshit view of religion.

You are now putting yourself on the same page as these extremists. You say they have a bullshit view of their religion yet I'm thinking (possibly a mistake on my part) that your religous views are also clouding your mind when you say "we need to unleash holy hell on these people".

Also, do you know the meaning of the word genocide? If you don't might I suggest you educate yourself as that is what you are calling for.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Frenchy68 0]

That is why we need to unleash holy hell on these people. They cannot be trusted, they are a threat to the entire world. They are sadistic fuckers who are blinded by their bullshit view of religion.***
Just to clarify, but are you refering to the entire Middle East population, or the few FU people who commit atrocities?

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[happythoughts 0]

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Its Palestinians who are suicide bombers. Iraqis don't do suicide bombing

Go to the CNN website and do a news search on Iraq, suicide, and bomber.

[whiterabbit 0]

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If we were to walk away from the middle east right now and throw down our weapons the world would not need to worry about the US proactively targeting innocent civilians or committing cowardous acts of murder such as suicide bombings, etc....

That is why we need to unleash holy hell on these people. They cannot be trusted, they are a threat to the entire world. They are sadistic fuckers who are blinded by their bullshit view of religion.

Your wife is Arabic and her entire family is from the middle east. Presumably she has relatives over there, and you advocate "unleashing holy hell on these people" -- people who might be part of your family? Can't you see the hypocrisy in your words? You are claiming that this entire region of the world is "sadistic" and "blinded by their views" while blindly calling for sadistic measures to be taken against all of them.

[skydyvr 0]

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"A pilot who drops a 500lb bomb in a civilian suburb is a terrorist."

Thats a little extreme, so I'll just stand by with a fire extinguisher.

It may be extreme, but "stupid" describes it more accurately.

. . =(_8^(1)

[funks 1]

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If we were to walk away from the middle east right now and throw down our weapons the world would not need to worry about the US proactively targeting innocent civilians or committing cowardous acts of murder such as suicide bombings, etc....

That is why we need to unleash holy hell on these people. They cannot be trusted, they are a threat to the entire world. They are sadistic fuckers who are blinded by their bullshit view of religion.

Your wife is Arabic and her entire family is from the middle east. Presumably she has relatives over there, and you advocate "unleashing holy hell on these people" -- people who might be part of your family? Can't you see the hypocrisy in your words? You are claiming that this entire region of the world is "sadistic" and "blinded by their views" while blindly calling for sadistic measures to be taken against all of them.

Yep, she is Arabic and yes I do advocate unleashing holy hell on the middle east. She would be the first person to back me up and agree with me.

[Frenchy68 0]

Yep, she is Arabic and yes I do advocate unleashing holy hell on the middle east. She would be the first person to back me up and agree with me.
***
And as a Middle Easter, should we unleash holly hell on your wife as well?

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[funks 1]

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If we were to walk away from the middle east right now and throw down our weapons the world would not need to worry about the US proactively targeting innocent civilians or committing cowardous acts of murder such as suicide bombings, etc....

That is why we need to unleash holy hell on these people. They cannot be trusted, they are a threat to the entire world. They are sadistic fuckers who are blinded by their bullshit view of religion.

Your wife is Arabic and her entire family is from the middle east. Presumably she has relatives over there, and you advocate "unleashing holy hell on these people" -- people who might be part of your family? Can't you see the hypocrisy in your words? You are claiming that this entire region of the world is "sadistic" and "blinded by their views" while blindly calling for sadistic measures to be taken against all of them.

We have proven that we cannot systematically do away with the people who pose the biggest threat. Not only that, as i said in a previous post..that part of the world is breeding hate at an alarming rate. Yes, the innocence that would be lost by taking drastic measures would be devestating. But if it will make the world a safer place for future generations and send a message to all the people who believe in getting their message across by proactively murdering innocent people then i believe it needs to be done.

[funks 1]

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Yep, she is Arabic and yes I do advocate unleashing holy hell on the middle east. She would be the first person to back me up and agree with me.
***
And as a Middle Easter, should we unleash holly hell on your wife as well?

If you view her as a threat to your personal well being then be my guest.

[happythoughts 0]

This is one of the weirdest threads that I have ever read.

[Frenchy68 0]

If you view her as a threat to your personal well being then be my guest***
Not my conception of a healthy wife/husband relationship, but that's only my personal view

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[funks 1]

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If you view her as a threat to your personal well being then be my guest***
Not my conception of a healthy wife/husband relationship, but that's only my personal view

Unlike you I am generalizing and not bringing this down to a personal level.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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We have proven that we cannot systematically do away with the people who pose the biggest threat. Not only that, as i said in a previous post..that part of the world is breeding hate at an alarming rate. Yes, the innocence that would be lost by taking drastic measures would be devestating. But if it will make the world a safer place for future generations and send a message to all the people who believe in getting their message across by proactively murdering innocent people then i believe it needs to be done.

I'm assuming you're a GWB supporter (I could be wrong). Do you want GWB to go down in the history books with the likes of Hilter and Stalin. Do date GWB does NOT belong on the same page as these two guys. But the way you're talking and the way you want to unleash your holy war, he'll be there.

Also, will the world be a better place if the USA was to unleash their holy war on the middle east? I say NO fucking way. The rest of the world will view the USA as a war mongering state (many already do) and do you really want the world to wage yet another war on itself (this one will be the war to end all wars as we as humans will finally succeed in killing ourselves off).

There is no easy solution here. I am all for the US military and special forces hunting down Bin Ladden and his associates. But to wage a holy war on a race of people who already believe the west is out to get them (and we know they'll be fighting their holy war) will be the end of us all.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Frenchy68 0]

Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of making it personal. But your statement came accross as willing to "Sacrifice" your spouse for common good, if wiping out Middle Easterners would solve the problem at hand. I don't think that's what you truly believe in, and certainly would expect you not to.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[turtlespeed 212]

So you are ok with Saddam and his control tactics over his people?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[crozby 0]

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Its Palestinians who are suicide bombers. Iraqis don't do suicide bombing

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Go to the CNN website and do a news search on Iraq, suicide, and bomber.

I think if you check you'll find that the suicide bombings are being carried out by anti-US groups who entered Iraq when the coallition, in their infinitely superior wisdom, decided to turn the place into the terrorist equivalent of Disney Land.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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So you are ok with Saddam and his control tactics over his people?

I don't know are you okay with Communism? If not, why isn't the USA off in China, North Korea or Vietnam right now liberating those people of those respective oppressive regimes. Better yet why isn't America off liberating all the other oppressed people around the world? The answer should be because it's not America's job to liberate oppressed nations.

It sure looks like America is in Iraq because of their oil and the lucrative reconstruction contracts that GWB promised his buddies who put him in the White House to begin with. But that is just my opinion.

Oh and to answer your question, no Saddam was not right to oppress his people in the ways in which he did and in that respect, it is good that he is gone. But there are a bunch of other oppresive regimes out there with actual WMD. Why is Iraq different? And save me the 9/11 speech as Iraq had nothing to do with that horrible day in human history.

Let the flaming begin. But I can only carry this on for another couple of hours before I check out of here for a weekend of BASE jumping.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[turtlespeed 212]

Simply put - One at a Time.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[crozby 0]

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Simply put - One at a Time.

I guess the proof that the USA is in Iraq on a humanitarian mission will be when it sends troops to the Sudan, which is by far in greatest need of outside military assistance.

Many more people in Sudan are in immediate danger right now than there ever were in the lead up to the invasion of Iraq.