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pchapman

Packing line equalization diaper with all lines in diaper?

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Does that make any sense at all, packing a line equalization diaper with all lines inside the diaper?

I heard a newer rigger say he had someone instruct him that one could or should do that. Sounded a little crazy. Never heard of anyone doing that and don't plan to do that, but curious what others know.

The idea was that one couldn't have a failure of the diaper as could theoretically happen, if there was some entanglement with the half of the lines that went directly to the canopy (thus never tensioning the other set of lines that held the diaper closed). Say by an unstable pilot bailing out.

But if both sets of lines went to the diaper, the elastics there would absolutely have to be set up to be really tight or something, so that they wouldn't pull out until all the lines pulled out of the pack tray elastics. If the diaper released early, it would be almost as if it were a non-diapered canopy, something diapered canopies were generally not designed for.

It seemed like an idea not fully thought out, creating one large potential problem in place of an extremely rare problem. Or am I missing something?

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I've never heard the term line equalization diaper but i assume you mean a Strong diaper with half the lines in it. Putting all of lines in the diaper to lock it with the rest of the lines in the container completely defeats the purpose, may/ will result in the diaper releasing before the lines in the container deploy greatly increasing the chance of a malfunction, and simply doesn't follow the manual or the tso'd configuration.

Educate the new rigger to follow the manual and why, and try to educate the rigger that told him to do it that way not to try to make it up as he goes.

This is one of the worst cases of "creative" rigging I've heard of.>:( I hate to think of what he is doing to make those locking stows tight enough to not come out.[:/] While his concern may be correct his solution is no better and illegal in the US in not following the manual. If in the U.S. he's in need of reevaluation by the administrator.
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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He might have been confused by the diaper design. Some Strong diapers can be used as Type-2 deployment (half the lines used to lock the diaper, line stowage otherwise on the pack tray) _or_ as Type-4 (all the lines stowed on the diaper). We choose one or the other based on manufacturer instructions -- mostly for the bulk distribution that makes the pack look nice.

Mark

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Never heard of that packing technique before??????

Was he referring to a Type 2 diaper (with only the left line group locking the diaper closed)?

Like the other poster said, he may be confusing it with a Type 4 diaper. Strong and Butler manuals instruct riggers to pack Type 4 as Type 2 or Type 4 depending upon desired bulk distribution.

For example, all but the oldest Strong, 26 foot diameter, conical canopies made of low-porosity fabric have Type 4 diapers with three locking stows (rubber bands). When packing a Strong LOPO, round canopy into a Strong Para-Cushion PEP, I always stow the left line group on the diaper. The right line group remains outside the diaper. The rest of the lines get stowed in the pack tray because that is the method illustrated in the Strong manual and it is important to pack most of the line bulk under the pilot chute to provide the spring with a solid platform to launch.
OTOH when packing Strong LOPOs into most other containers, I stow all the lines on the diaper.
The only exception is when I am packing a Strong LOPO into a thin container (e.g. Long Softie) then I revert to Type 2 line stowage to spread line bulk and make the pilot more comfortable.

Packing in a manner not illustrated in the manual (per manufacturers' instructors) turns the user into a test-jumper ... not wise on gear that was perfected 40 years ago.

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Thanks everyone.

The rigger never actually packed anything the incorrect way, and just related the story to me as "I was told that....", so that's good. Hopefully the error cropped up for the reasons others suggested -- that one could change from half the lines in the diaper to all the lines in the diaper, but only in the context of switching between completely different type 2 and type 4 packing, where approved.

As for my using the term "line equalization diaper", that's funny. A printed page in my original rigging course described that line equalization releases that sort of 2 grommet diaper so I happened to start using that term in my logbook to distinguish between diapers in a more descriptive fashion than type number or grommet numbers. You've got full stow in a couple orientations (with or without bottom flaps), and you've got line equalization. After that, the issue never came up that it was an informal description rather than an accepted term that anyone else uses...

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betzilla

I found it in a packed rig once. Creepy. Also annoying that I had to spend all that extra time removing rubber bands from the diaper, and installing them in the container.



Been there, seen that... from an older rigger whom was known to disregard the manual and "knew better" than the mfg. (my DPRE and I had a chat...)


Walk on road, hm? Walk left side, safe. Walk right side, safe. Walk middle, sooner or later get squish just like grape. Here, rigging , same thing. Either you full diaper stow "yes" or full diaper stow "no." You full stow "guess so," sooner or later get squish just like grape.

All lines on diaper (in an appropriate container) - safe.
1/2 lines closing diaper, all lines in container) - safe.
all lines closing diaper, all lines in container - squish.

JW
Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

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dpreguy

fca summary is correct.

And; with half of the lines in the diaper 'choice #2' - tight rubber bands on the diaper lines=per Strong. For a while they even recommended a double wrap on them.



I know that things can be different in the air than on the table, but when I unpack a Type II (1/2 line locked diaper) system, I want to see all the full line stows in the pack release before the diaper. If not, you need to use fresher/snugger bands on the diaper.

Failure of this diaper stowage design is the deployment equivalent of bag strip for a ram-air canopy. Canopy (opening) is exposed to the air and starting to inflate prior to line stretch. Either a very hard opening and/or lines knotting on whatever they want to as they flail around... Either way, your gonna have a bad day.

JW
Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

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Hi Peter and all interested
I was surprised that you brought up a subject concerning diaper line set up in 2016.

I have had 2 Strong reserves in the 70s:
a) a 26' LoPo PN: 1012
b) a LoPo Lite PN 1014

a) The first case (26' LoPo PN 1012) had only half of the lines (the left set) going below the flap of the diaper with 3 stows using grommets and you had to cope with the difference for stowing the lines (both sets) in the container (see in attachment)

b) the second case (LoPo Lite PN 1014) needed to have ALL THE LINES going below the diaper flap, with 3 stows using the grommets and the rest of the lines was stowed ALL on the diaper itself in rubber bands installed just beside the grommets in a dicreasing distance way.(see in attachment)

The idea for the second case was that Strong wanted to have diaper first deployment then after diaper extension, line extraction well away from the jumper to decrease the chance of entanglement with the jumper

But a drawing is equivalent to 1000 words, have a look at the 2 documents provided by Strong when I bought those reserves (see in attachment)
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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erdnarob

Hi Peter and all interested
I was surprised that you brought up a subject concerning diaper line set up in 2016.

I have had 2 Strong reserves in the 70s:
a) a 26' LoPo PN: 1012
b) a LoPo Lite PN 1014

a) The first case (26' LoPo PN 1012) had only half of the lines (the left set) going below the flap of the diaper with 3 stows using grommets and you had to cope with the difference for stowing the lines (both sets) in the container (see in attachment)

b) the second case (LoPo Lite PN 1014) needed to have ALL THE LINES going below the diaper flap, with 3 stows using the grommets and the rest of the lines was stowed ALL on the diaper itself in rubber bands installed just beside the grommets in a dicreasing distance way.(see in attachment)

The idea for the second case was that Strong wanted to have diaper first deployment then after diaper extension, line extraction well away from the jumper to decrease the chance of entanglement with the jumper

But a drawing is equivalent to 1000 words, have a look at the 2 documents provided by Strong when I bought those reserves (see in attachment)



The second case, newer 3-closing/full stow diaper was an option for packing the Strong 26' LoPo/Mid-lite in a container that did not have container line stows as part of its packing procedure.

In the Strong Paracushion up to the present day, the 3-stow diaper is used with lines split to use only the left side to close the diaper and all the rest stowed in the container.

The diaper/canopy can be used in either type of packing method, dependent upon the needs of the container.

Where we see the problem is when people use all lines to close the diaper and then stow the remaining lines in the container. This will cause great trouble.

JW
Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

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