appalling...

[falxori 0]

the full report below.

the following happened on board a train outside paris, last friday.

- a group of 5 men attack a young woman on a train and steal her purse.
- going through her stuff, the find out she lives in an "expensive" district.
- following their logic (didnt say they were smart) they conclude: "here are only Jews in the 16th,''
- The gang then pushed her and cut her hair ``to keep a souvenir,'' police said. The attackers opened her shirt, reportedly with a knife, before drawing swastikas on her stomach with a marking pen. The 13-month-old infant fell from its stroller in the melee.
- no one on the train came to her rescue.


i can't describe the way i feel when i read this story...
i think france needs to take a good long look at the mirror

and btw, not that it matters, she wasn't jewish.

Quote

Gang Attacks Mother on French Train

Sunday July 11, 2004 2:46 PM


By ELAINE GANLEY

Associated Press Writer

PARIS (AP) - A gang of young men attacked a woman riding a suburban train with her infant child, cutting her hair and drawing swastikas on her stomach. Other passengers watched but did nothing, police reported.

French politicians issued denunciations Sunday as news of the Friday morning attack spread through the nation.

Police said the gang of six set upon the 23-year-old woman on a suburban train north of Paris and grabbed her backpack where they found identity papers that showed an address in the capital's well-to-do 16th district. ``There are only Jews in the 16th,'' one of the group of attackers said.

The young woman, who was not identified, was not Jewish and no longer lived in the district, police said.

The gang then pushed her and cut her hair ``to keep a souvenir,'' police said. The attackers opened her shirt, reportedly with a knife, before drawing swastikas on her stomach with a marking pen. The 13-month-old infant fell from its stroller in the melee. Neither the mother nor infant was seriously hurt, police said.

Police described the gang as ages 15 to 20 and said some appeared to be of Muslim North African origin.

The attack occurred a day after President Jacques Chirac denounced mounting racial intolerance in France, calling for drastic change ``at the risk of indifference and passivity.''

According to the police account, none of the passengers on the train came to the woman's rescue.

Chirac denounced Friday's ``shameful act'' and Interior Minister Dominique de Villepin ordered police to find the culprits ``as quickly as possible.''

Roger Cukierman, president of the Representative Council of Jewish Institutions in France, said that, in the face of rising anti-Semitism, government decisions are no longer sufficient.

``Each one of us must truly feel threatened by this phenomenon,'' Cukierman said on France-Info radio. ``This is not a problem of Jews but of France.''

On Thursday, a day before the attack, Chirac traveled to Le Chambon-sur-Lignon, a small town that sheltered some 5,000 Jews from Nazi occupiers during World War II.

``I ask (the French) to remind their children of the mortal danger of fanaticism, of exclusion, of cowardliness and resignation to extremism,'' he said.

Anti-Semitic acts have been on the rise in France over the past few years, but recently have spiked, with 135 registered in the first half of this year - more than the total reports last year. The rise in anti-Semitic acts has been accompanied by racist acts against Muslims.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[RoadRash 0]

Quote

Anti-Semitic acts have been on the rise in France over the past few years, but recently have spiked, with 135 registered in the first half of this year - more than the total reports last year. The rise in anti-Semitic acts has been accompanied by racist acts against Muslims.

This is disheartening and sad, but unfortunately this seems to be a rising trend in France and other countries in Europe as well. My question is, what is being done about it besides publicly "denouncing" such acts?


~R+R

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~...

[Kennedy 0]

I heard some fuckwads discussing the recent "neo-nazi attack on a train."

Quote

Police described the gang as ages 15 to 20 and said some appeared to be of Muslim North African origin.

Unless neo-nazis are accepting Muslim North Africans into their ranks, people might want to open their eyes and see that not only whites can be racists and shitbags.

But hey, I'm middle class, white, Christian, and American, so I guess I'm just devil spawn trying to deceive you all.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[ACMESkydiver 0]

Quote

...so I guess I'm just devil spawn trying to deceive you all.

Well I don't believe that, junior!
Everyone knows that you're so obnoxious that the devil himself wouldn't claim you and would avert his eyes should you show up at the gates of hell...



Me on the other hand...well I have been called devil woman on more than one occasion...

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[damion75 0]

"For evil to triumph, all that is necessary is for good men to do nothing."

I would love to say that I am shocked that nobody did anything, but I am not. There are too many people (the majority?) these days who will stand back and let petty criminals and thieves get away with it.

It makes me feel sick.

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

Quote

...so I guess I'm just devil spawn trying to deceive you all.

Well I don't believe that, junior!
Everyone knows that you're so obnoxious that the devil himself wouldn't claim you and would avert his eyes should you show up at the gates of hell...

Sweet!! I am going to live forever.

Heaven won't take me and Hell's afraid I'll take over.

So far, so good.

Thanks, princess, you just brightened my evening.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[ACMESkydiver 0]

Quote

Thanks, princess, you just brightened my evening.

Good Lord I just watched the movie again today that started the whole 'princess' issue...

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

Good Lord I just watched the movie again today that started the whole 'princess' issue...

Good God WHY, woman?

ps - you don't have to refer to me as "Good Lord." Simply "Lord" will suffice.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 4]

Quote

- no one on the train came to her rescue.

Unfortunately, people don't always help people in distress.

That happens even in this country.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ACMESkydiver 0]

Quote

Quote

Good Lord I just watched the movie again today that started the whole 'princess' issue...

Good God WHY, woman?

ps - you don't have to refer to me as "Good Lord." Simply "Lord" will suffice.

...and you needn't refer to me as "Good God." "Most Exalted Lady" is so much more appropriate...

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[Kennedy 0]

Anything you say, princess.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

"For evil to triumph, all that is necessary is for good men to do nothing."

I would love to say that I am shocked that nobody did anything, but I am not. There are too many people (the majority?) these days who will stand back and let petty criminals and thieves get away with it.

It makes me feel sick.

Um, who's going to stand up, unarmed as a good little meek citizen "should" be, against criminals who are armed with knives?

Maybe France needs to start issuing CCW permits. A single armed commuter bystander could have stopped this, and held them all for police while someone else used a cellular phone to summon them.

In any case, isn't it enough for all of you that the French politicians have issued denunciations?!

No protection. Just denunciations.

This stuff sickens me, too. It's well beyond time for good people to fight back -- viciously. Things have gotten too far out of hand.

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[falxori 0]

Quote

isn't it enough for all of you that the French politicians have issued denunciations?!

you know what is even worse?
if she was actually jewish, you probably wouldn't have heard about it at all (no big story in "hate crimes" as they are comfortably defined these days...)

france has a a problem. although it had disengaged itself from north africa, it can not disengage north africa from itself.

O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

Quote

- no one on the train came to her rescue.

Unfortunately, people don't always help people in distress.

That happens even in this country.

Especially when people are disarmed and don't know whether anyone else will back them up.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

You know, I realize this will sound incredibly politically incorrect, and it doesn't necessarily reflect my actual feelings on the subject, but...

does it not begin to appear -- given the incredible amount of civil strife in dozens of nations around the world -- that multicultural societies are beseiged with inter-cultural violence, and the best most peaceful societies are those that are more-or-less homogenous?

What's it gonna take to make people live in harmony? Can disparate cultures live in the same country in harmony? Is it a pipe dream, that we should give up on? I mean, the evidence is in, and it does not look good, historically, for countries to mix cultures and expect any sort of peace.

Blue skies,
-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

- no one on the train came to her rescue.

Unfortunately, people don't always help people in distress.

That happens even in this country.

Especially when people are disarmed and don't know whether anyone else will back them up.

Don't you know, Kennedy, that that's what 911 is for?! Let the professionals do their job. Civilians are only apt to get themselves hurt.

Um, the only problem is what do you do when there aren't any cops around? Anti-gun people never have an answer for this. Oh, no wait, they do -- they usually tell you that you should take some self-defense classes!

Oh I think it would serve anyone right who ever said "only the cops should have guns" to be attacked and have people, unarmed, stand by unable to do anything to help them as they get savaged by criminals emboldened by the forced-disarmament of ordinary citizens. Nothing like being hoist on your own petard, eh, anti-gun fools?

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Kennedy 0]

Racial Supremacists scare me.
Racial Separatists make me think.
This makes me scary to a lot of people for some reason.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Can disparate cultures live in the same country in harmony? Is it a pipe dream, that we should give up on? I mean, the evidence is in, and it does not look good, historically, for countries to mix cultures and expect any sort of peace."

I like to think so, and I like to think its worth working at, to make it successful. The whole being greater than the sum of its parts, kind of thing.
Besides, can you really un-mix the cultural blend that already exists?

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[falxori 0]

i dont have a problem with political incorrectness

every one likes to be around people who have a similar background, culture, education , etc.

the question is, what do you do when there are others who are not exactly like you, do you "live and let live" or do you do things like described here ?

i guess it depends on what kind of a person are you.

O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[crazy 0]

Quote

Quote

- no one on the train came to her rescue.

Unfortunately, people don't always help people in distress.

Come on, when 6 violent, aggressive, and armed guys are robbing someone, it's not the duty of the witnesses to go to her rescue. Of course, it would have been nice if someone did successfully, but i won't blame anybody for not doing so. It could easily become a blood bath, and trading a robbery for a blood bath is plain stupidity. Wouldn't this be a great title:

TODDLER TRAMPLED TO DEATH, 8 BYPASSERS STABBED

Besides, focusing on this aspect just adds noise and smoke around the main issue: insecurity.

Even the racism is a secondary point in this specific case. The aggressors are obviously not nazis: 4 north-africans and 2 black africans (still wondering how they could possibly be identified as Muslim here). Even though they are obviously racist, they are clearly not anti-semitic activists, else they would have a better understanding of the meaning of the swastika and would probably have not used it. Anyway, apparently there is no organized Arab anti-Semitism in France.

--
Come
Skydive Asia

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

"Can disparate cultures live in the same country in harmony? Is it a pipe dream, that we should give up on? I mean, the evidence is in, and it does not look good, historically, for countries to mix cultures and expect any sort of peace."

I like to think so, and I like to think its worth working at, to make it successful. The whole being greater than the sum of its parts, kind of thing.
Besides, can you really un-mix the cultural blend that already exists?

See, that's my point. "We all like to think so." But really, is there anything -- anything at all -- in our human experience that actually justifies thinking so?

I agree -- it's a noble thing to hope for. But the bigger question is are we doing ourselves a disservice by clinging to what may just be a theory doomed to failure? I mean, in the social experiment that is multiculturalism, we see either cultures isolating themselves and refusing to mix ("Chinatowns", "Little Havana," "Little Iran," "Little anything, simply means they aren't assimilating), or cultures mixing and clashing, as in the U.S., France, Germany, various former Soviet republics. And in Africa, it happens along tribal lines, with warlords leading the strife. I'm no anthropologist, but I really have to say that it seems that human nature is just to NOT get along! Every day this point of view is proven out, but in the double-think that makes it impossible to be honest about it, we don't let ourselves make the realization.

Now, don't go saying, "Ooooh, Peacefuljeffrey is a white separatist!" or some bullshit like that, because that is NOT the case. I just am in doubt about the effectiveness or realistic potential of "multiculturalism" to be a long-surviving thing. I definitely feel that the overwhelming result of it has been negative wherever it has been attempted. Maybe it's time to be honest, and to give NON-RACIST credence to the notion that people of X-type should stay around here, and people of Y-type should stay around there, just for the benefit of all concerned.

Is there a good argument to suggest that despite all of the war, conflict, hatred, murder, torture, racism, intolerance that we see happening every day that there is some reason to keep banging our heads against this particular wall?

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[falxori 0]

Quote

Even the racism is a secondary point in this specific case

no, its not. the thought that she might be jewish (even if by twisted logic) is what turned a group of robbers into a group of killers (yes, i know she wasnt killed, but when they cut her clothes and hair with knives and throw her kid on the floor, for me its the same.)

Quote

Even though they are obviously racist, they are clearly not anti-semitic activists, else they would have a better understanding of the meaning of the swastika and would probably have not used it. Anyway,

don't assume they have your intelect. they've prooved their stupidity when they assumed she was jewish because she lives in a good neighbourhood.
racism is usually based on ignorance anyway so i don't see why it is important whether they are "activists" or not.

Quote

apparently there is no organized Arab anti-Semitism in France.

apparently to who? organized as in "lets go out and beat up some jews" ? probably not. but racial attacks are a result of education and atmosphere and that is the fault of both their leaders and of the authorities.

O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Is there a good argument to suggest that despite all of the war, conflict, hatred, murder, torture, racism, intolerance that we see happening every day that there is some reason to keep banging our heads against this particular wall?"

Historically, it seems to work, The USA and modern Europe is a pretty good example of the 'melting pot' approach being relatively successful. We, as a society can actually overcome the genetic 'tribalism' that seems to plague us. I think it is possible to set aside bigotries, and dillute the hatred and mistrust with understanding and tolerance.
Personally, I think its better to continue banging our heads against this particular wall, as opposed to erecting new dividing walls.

The prize for eroding this bigotry is worth much more than accepting the alternative, integration and understanding is of more benefit to us, long term, than a collision of cultures.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

You know, I realize this will sound incredibly politically incorrect, and it doesn't necessarily reflect my actual feelings on the subject, but...

does it not begin to appear -- given the incredible amount of civil strife in dozens of nations around the world -- that multicultural societies are beseiged with inter-cultural violence, and the best most peaceful societies are those that are more-or-less homogenous?

What's it gonna take to make people live in harmony? Can disparate cultures live in the same country in harmony? Is it a pipe dream, that we should give up on? I mean, the evidence is in, and it does not look good, historically, for countries to mix cultures and expect any sort of peace.

Blue skies,
-

It's a fair question, but I think it's a case of only hearing the bad news. There are plenty of countries where very different cultures live together harmoniously, they're just not in the news everyday with a declaration that "today, a muslim and christian had a cup of coffee together".

It's not a pipe dream. It will take time for the petty fears, misconceptions and mistrust to go away, but we've been progressing that way for millenia and will continue to.

[mikkey 0]

All news stories should always be digested with some skepticism... Here is an update on the story - it might not even have happened....

Quote

Doubts amid swastika attack hunt

PARIS, France (AP) -- Police patrolled suburban trains on Monday and studied video from surveillance cameras, trying to track down six men who allegedly attacked a young mother and scrawled swastikas on her stomach.

But doubts began to surface about the truth of the attack report that stunned France.

A 23-year-old mother told police that she was robbed by a knife-wielding gang of six young men while riding a train with her infant on Friday morning, then mistreated after being mistaken for a Jew. None of some 20 witnesses came to her rescue, she told police.

Investigators trying to track down the culprits had almost no clues to guide them.

Surveillance cameras at the station where the culprits reportedly left the train showed no young men running from the scene, and no witnesses have come forward despite repeated calls from officials and promises of anonymity.

Both France-Info radio and the television station LCI reported that the young woman had filed several complaints for violence and aggression in the past. Neither provided sources, but LCI said she had filed six such complaints in the past. That information could not be immediately confirmed.

"It is absolutely necessary to have a certitude before speaking," said Paris Police Chief Jean-Paul Proust, when asked about the case on France-2 television. "I have no certitude."

Despite the doubts being cast on the woman's report, officials continued to issue statements of shock and calls to fight anti-Semitism and passiveness by bystanders.

Deputy Minister for Victims' Rights Nicole Guedj met with the young mother, then asked witnesses to step forward, particularly a young man said to have been seated near the mother.

"The gesture that he was not able to make Friday, he must make today," Guedj said.

Guedj also suggested that witnesses who failed to act at the time would not risk being pursued for non-assistance to a person in danger, a crime in France.

"It is difficult to go after people who feel themselves to be in danger," she said.

France was stunned by news of the attack, which emerged over the weekend. The brutality of the aggression, its anti-Semitic character and the fact that no one came to the mother's rescue raised worrisome questions.

"Anti-Semitism is shameful ... but there is also a sickness in our society," said Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin. "It's indifference to violence."

He called for courage among citizens, saying that "courage must be quicker than violence."

Police, their information based on the woman's account, said that the gang, described by the victim as between 15 and 20, allegedly grabbed the woman's backpack, taking her money and credit cards.

When they saw that her identification card said she lived in the wealthy 16th district of Paris, they reportedly told the woman: "There are only Jews in the 16th."

The woman told police that the men, described as North Africans and blacks, then cut off locks of her hair, opened her shirt with their knives and used markers to draw three swastikas on her stomach.

Guedj said the woman told her that about 20 people in the train were "capable of seeing" what was happening.

One of the attackers held the woman by her neck, forcing her to keep her head to the ground so that she couldn't see them, several French newspapers quoted police as saying.

Meanwhile, the office of President Jacques Chirac said that crimes involving racism would not be among those benefiting from the traditional Bastille Day pardons on Wednesday.

---------------------------------------------------------
When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.