U.S. Prison Sexual Abuse Revealed

[billvon 2,874]

>Really?? Then why have you never commented about it.

Because you're the first person to bring it up. There are people in Southern California who go into Mexico, collect money from mexicans, put 30 of them in a Toyota van, and try to run across the border. Often they are abandoned in the Arizona desert (where they die of exposure) or killed when the van tries to run a blockade. Should we assume that you support these criminals because you've never commented about them?

>You are more outraged when it's Iraqis . . .

I am angry that that happened because those acts of torture will directly lead to more dead american soldiers, as the relatives/friends/countryment of the tortured prisoners take revenge. And that is something I very much hope we can avoid.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Awwww.....Shame. Here we go with the Anti American sob story again.

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That's not what I read.

Nor what I said.

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I thought the hope was, that those of us in the US would take notice of the US systems and see if we could make it better.

And that those in other countries who are bashing the US over this would realize their countries are just as bad. I'd like to hear them become just as vocal about the abuses taking place in their own countries.

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And that those of us in the (for example, UK and South Africa), would take note of that and speak to the prison systems in the (for example UK and South Africa), rather than just comment negatively as well on the US system. Which is all you and Tonto did so far in these threads. Or for Kallend to make excuses for other country's systems by holding the US to higher standards and not them.

Do you have any info on the UK prison systems? Is it better, worse, the same. I'm betting people are the same all over the world.

You would be correct. This is a global problem and I challenge all who have had negative things to say about the US to be introspective and take a look at how their own countries allow these atrocities to occur daily.

http://www.survivorsswindon.com/prisons.htm

I wonder how many that have commented have actually read some of the links I've posted or just taken a "yeah, yeah, yeah" attitude. Something to think about.

This line would have been better taken had it not gone that extra step and pointed out media hypocrisy, though.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>Really?? Then why have you never commented about it.

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Because you're the first person to bring it up. There are people in Southern California who go into Mexico, collect money from mexicans, put 30 of them in a Toyota van, and try to run across the border. Often they are abandoned in the Arizona desert (where they die of exposure) or killed when the van tries to run a blockade. Should we assume that you support these criminals because you've never commented about them?

Again, you miss the point. If their was a thread about the Chinese smuggling people into PRNK, then I am sure you or myself, or someone else would have brought up Mexicans being smuggled into the US because it was a related topic and we would have used the US/Mexican example as perspective. For some inexplicable reason, nobody made the leap from Iraqi prisoner abuse to US prison abuse. You have to admit it's something to ponder.


>You are more outraged when it's Iraqis . . .

I am angry that that happened because those acts of torture will directly lead to more dead american soldiers, as the relatives/friends/countryment of the tortured prisoners take revenge. And that is

[billvon 2,874]

>For some inexplicable reason, nobody made the leap from Iraqi
> prisoner abuse to US prison abuse. You have to admit it's
> something to ponder.

I think because we have made it so clear that they will not be treated as US prisoners are (i.e. afforded the right to representation and a trial.) We've gotten used to such a separation in the US, with Gitmo vs 'regular' prisons; we were automatically assuming that such a loss of rights made them separate from regular US prisoners. As you point out, though, there are still many similarities.

[skydyvr 0]

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Is it our goal to be a little bit better than them? Do we base our success as humanitarians on their progress?

The question should be, are we as humane as we can and should be? The answer to that is no.

In answer to both your and Kallend's comments, I do think our prison systems are more humane than many if not most other countries, but I still have a pessimistic view of the future of this country and the people in it.

More and more, we are becoming a nation of selfish fucktards. I believe the kind of people that are capable of the cruelty exibited in our prisons here and abroad are becoming more numerous, not less. Of course, I blame it all on the liberals, but that's another story.

. . =(_8^(1)

[crazy 0]

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Why are certain people so concerned about abused Iraqis but seem to be silent when it comes to abused Americans. I can't seem to find a single thread by those expressing such horror and outrage.

What part is difficult to understand? That most people think that abuse of Americans criminals in american prisons is none of their business? Or that the self promoted international Champions of Righteousness draw flack with their "do what We say, not what We do" attitude?

--
Come
Skydive Asia

[crozby 0]

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http://www.survivorsswindon.com/prisons.htm

I wonder how many that have commented have actually read some of the links I've posted or just taken a "yeah, yeah, yeah" attitude. Something to think about.

I checked out your link and it seems to me you just latched on to one of the first websites you googled with a search like "prisoner abuse uk statistics".

The organisation behind the website also claims that 1 in 4 British men and 1 in 3 British women have been the victims of sexual abuse by the time they reach 18.

I can't find any other sites backing up that claim and I would put money on it being bullshit.

Additionally SurvivorsSwindon don't provide sources for many of their claims and they also refuse to discuss where they get their underlying data from. Not exactly transparent.

I can see how the "Well everyone is at it" line might make you feel more comfortable with what your fellow countrymen are doing to US prisoners, but I don't think you'll find the UK has the same problem.

[Gravitymaster 0]

http://lark.phoblacht.net/seriousabuseirpwa.html

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/jan2004/pris-j15.shtml

http://www.guardian.co.uk/prisons/story/0,7369,1169347,00.html

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The home secretary has refused to release a man who has become psychotic as a result of his detention in Belmarsh prison for more than two years without charge or trial.
Judges have said the man had become mentally deranged and may cause himself harm as a result of detention. They recommended he be given bail and placed under strict house arrest rather than continue to be held in the south-east London jail.

Lawyers for David Blunkett immediately appealed against the decision. They do not contest the fact that the man's detention has driven him mad, but argue he is such a danger to Britain he should stay in jail despite the mental health implications.

Amnesty International yesterday appealed to its members, asking them to write letters to the home secretary demanding he free the man on bail, as directed by the judges. It says the man is being "held in cruel, inhuman and degrading conditions in violation of international law, including the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms

I'm not trying to bash any country. I'm just pointing out this is a global problem.

[andrewstewart 0]

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I still have a pessimistic view of the future of this country and the people in it.

More and more, we are becoming a nation of selfish fucktards. I believe the kind of people that are capable of the cruelty exibited in our prisons here and abroad are becoming more numerous, not less. Of course, I blame it all on the liberals, but that's another story.

I would say that the root cause was a lack of empathy and the prevelance of an "us vs. them" mindset (as exemplified by your "I blame it on the liberals" comment).

[crozby 0]

You're right that prison abuse most likely occurs to a greater or lesser extent in most if not all countries.

In the UK we currently have just over 75,000 prisoners. The fact that there are only a handfull of reports of prisoner abuse and they are presented almost exclusively on questionable websites makes me think we don't have a problem like the USA does.

In the USA there are many more private companies running prisons than there are in the UK. Maybe that is a contributing factor and maybe it is in Iraq too.

Private prisons a-la-USA are on the increase here so it will be interesting?!? to see if we also have an increasing abuse problem too.

The issue raised in the Guardian is bad. Its crap justice that a man made insane by incarceration should be forced to remain there because his insanity makes him a danger to the public. We have plenty of low/high security mental facilities here that could accommodate him.