mathrick 2 #76 January 13, 2016 sundevil777I am guilty of not appreciating that so many also have hip rings, as I don't have them. I'm not such a fan of the cost/benefit of hip rings except for the advantage they give for replacement of leg straps. What is the cost of having them, other than the monetary cost when ordering a new rig? @Ken: you always have to cut the existing rings, unless detachable ones were factory installed, but I don't think that has ever been the case on any rig? That was also the true of RW-6; installation instructions had much more on cutting the old rings than installing the new ones."Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #77 January 13, 2016 gowlerkIt also just occurred to me that removing the defective rings to install separable ones may not be all that easy. You would have to cut them. So many years ago, it was not so hard. The service bulletin or whatever that was posted earlier in the thread described it, and someone recalled how they had the local fire department test the capabilities of their boltcutters.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #78 January 13, 2016 mathrick ***I am guilty of not appreciating that so many also have hip rings, as I don't have them. I'm not such a fan of the cost/benefit of hip rings except for the advantage they give for replacement of leg straps. What is the cost of having them, other than the monetary cost when ordering a new rig? The only cost is the upfront cost, unless they are a part of some service bulletin . I just haven't been convinced of their supposed benefits.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #79 January 14, 2016 sundevil777***It also just occurred to me that removing the defective rings to install separable ones may not be all that easy. You would have to cut them. So many years ago, it was not so hard. The service bulletin or whatever that was posted earlier in the thread described it, and someone recalled how they had the local fire department test the capabilities of their boltcutters. A large set of bolt cutters will remove them. The important thing is not to use an abrasive process. Stainless steel filings/metal chips are quite sharp and you don't want these things embedded in your rig or canopies. They're quite unpleasant when embedded in your fingertips. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #80 January 14, 2016 Yeah, dremeling rings off a rig wasn't the most fun when I did it. (Changing mini rings to RW-6's.) It was doable, but I had to mask off the rest of the piece of hardware and whole rig with tape and garbage bags. Think I kept pretty much all of the metal bits out of the webbing. Bolt cutters would have been convenient to have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcordell 2 #81 January 15, 2016 sundevil777 ******I am guilty of not appreciating that so many also have hip rings, as I don't have them. I'm not such a fan of the cost/benefit of hip rings except for the advantage they give for replacement of leg straps. What is the cost of having them, other than the monetary cost when ordering a new rig? The only cost is the upfront cost, unless they are a part of some service bulletin . I just haven't been convinced of their supposed benefits. Full harness articulation is a standard and included feature in Vortex rigs and as such there are a lot of articulated Vortexes out there.www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morg 0 #82 January 22, 2016 Has anyone received their shipping authorisation yet? Im still waiting for mine, would be nice to know if everyone else is still waiting! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidlizard 0 #83 January 22, 2016 I've received. Just shipped the container today by DHL. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcordell 2 #84 January 24, 2016 MorgHas anyone received their shipping authorisation yet? Im still waiting for mine, would be nice to know if everyone else is still waiting! They are being sent out at this time. You should receive yours soonwww.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #85 January 25, 2016 Maybe this was asked earlier on the thread, but are there other rigs that are using this manufacturers rings?"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alexey 6 #86 January 27, 2016 ParAAvis from Russia use them tooLexa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattbergstrom 0 #87 January 28, 2016 I was actually looking for some RW-6 rings a while ago and came across Cirrus Hardware in the UK that currently makes them. On their website, Part 1083 (RW-6) rings. They were $15/ea and freight to WA was $35 and 4 days for 1-7 pieces. I never ordered them as I got sidetracked from that project. This is a little off topic but since they were mentioned, I figured I would chime in as it took a bit of searching to find them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #88 January 28, 2016 I had totally forgotten about those rings, thanks. Price check useful too even if not necessarily current. (And I'll also credit Andrew Hilton who posted about them a few years ago.) The Cirrus rings can be found on this page: http://www.cirrushardware.co.uk/vrings_orings_drings.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcordell 2 #89 February 5, 2016 pchapmanI had totally forgotten about those rings, thanks. Price check useful too even if not necessarily current. (And I'll also credit Andrew Hilton who posted about them a few years ago.) The Cirrus rings can be found on this page: http://www.cirrushardware.co.uk/vrings_orings_drings.htm These would only work for your vortex however if the harness is not articulated as there is no way to replace those rings without picking the stitching on the harness.www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dacordive 0 #90 February 9, 2016 So, now 2 weeks ago my Rig was delivered to parachute systems. Last week i emailed them to get an update. No answer until today. I know, better i hope, they working hard to get that Thing solved but as the season here in Germany is getting closer and closer a short update of the process would be nice. anyone here who got news from parachutes Systems about the amount of time needed to get the new rig? Sorry for bad english Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwiskydiving 0 #91 February 10, 2016 I emailed PS a few days ago regarding the vortex order I put in by late December last year. It turned out that PS reopened their factory on January 15th, and lead times for new containers have lengthened from the previous 10-12 weeks to 12-14 weeks. I was expecting my rig in March but they said it is to be delivered by the end of April.. so I think you should also expect a lead time of 4 months from now. Sad news but guess we'll just have to live with it.My skydiving blog: www.kiwiskydiving.com /// youtube channel: kiwiskydiving Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcordell 2 #92 February 10, 2016 KiwiskydivingI emailed PS a few days ago regarding the vortex order I put in by late December last year. It turned out that PS reopened their factory on January 15th, and lead times for new containers have lengthened from the previous 10-12 weeks to 12-14 weeks. I was expecting my rig in March but they said it is to be delivered by the end of April.. so I think you should also expect a lead time of 4 months from now. Sad news but guess we'll just have to live with it. Please don't spread misinformation. It is true the factory closes for an extended time for the holidays which is apparently a south Africa thing, but lead time on new orders has nothing at all to do with the lead time on the remade rigs. They are not on the same lines and they have nothing to do with one another's manufacturing time. There are a lot of requests going into the factory and I am in communication with them pretty regularly. I can't quote times on the replacements, however I can tell you they are cranking out work very quickly.www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #93 February 10, 2016 mcordellbut lead time on new orders has nothing at all to do with the lead time on the remade rigs. They are not on the same lines and they have nothing to do with one another's manufacturing time. That's good of course. But how the heck do they do it? It's hard for companies to suddenly increase production rate. If it is correct that all rigs in the past 4 years of production (at a minimum) are grounded, and they plan to fix things by the end of 2016 for example, then they have 5 years worth of rigs to build or rebuild this year. Minus some percentage for rigs that are out of service or owners totally off the grid. Increasing production rates by hundreds of percent isn't easy. One can hire new people with industry & sewing experience, skip non-essential projects, and work weekends. Or is there some extra capacity related to setting up US based production (while keeping the SA production open?). Are the remade rigs truly on a separate production line, in a physical sense, and not just in the sense of a virtual queue for what has priority? I obviously don't know what goes on at Parachute Systems, and they don't have to tell me, but it would be quite the business case study to see how they satisfy the recall without impacting current production in any way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #94 February 10, 2016 Yes,,,+ 1smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwiskydiving 0 #95 February 10, 2016 I want to be clear that I was reciting PS officials' emails, and the lead time of 12-14 weeks only apply to new orders. And yes as pchapman said it would be interesting to know how PS manages to not affect either production line dealing with the massive recall My skydiving blog: www.kiwiskydiving.com /// youtube channel: kiwiskydiving Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcordell 2 #96 February 15, 2016 pchapman***but lead time on new orders has nothing at all to do with the lead time on the remade rigs. They are not on the same lines and they have nothing to do with one another's manufacturing time. That's good of course. But how the heck do they do it? It's hard for companies to suddenly increase production rate. If it is correct that all rigs in the past 4 years of production (at a minimum) are grounded, and they plan to fix things by the end of 2016 for example, then they have 5 years worth of rigs to build or rebuild this year. Minus some percentage for rigs that are out of service or owners totally off the grid. Increasing production rates by hundreds of percent isn't easy. One can hire new people with industry & sewing experience, skip non-essential projects, and work weekends. Or is there some extra capacity related to setting up US based production (while keeping the SA production open?). Are the remade rigs truly on a separate production line, in a physical sense, and not just in the sense of a virtual queue for what has priority? I obviously don't know what goes on at Parachute Systems, and they don't have to tell me, but it would be quite the business case study to see how they satisfy the recall without impacting current production in any way. Well I can't really get into the specifics of the internal workings but there are new production lines in the physical sense. New equipment and increased manpower specifically dedicated to the remade rigs. Some of the remade rigs will be rolling out of the factory soon. I know how many total rigs are affected and how many they add to the production cue each week and while that information is not currently something I'm allowed to discuss publicly I can tell you the production time on them Is not quite the doom and gloom scenario some people think it will be. They have really gotten on top of things and the owner has even flown back to Durban from his home in SC. I've been impressed with their effort and I'm very optimistic that this will all work quite smoothly. I'll be at the PIA meeting in Scottsdale on behalf of the company here next week to discuss the recall as well.www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MonsterMo 0 #97 February 15, 2016 'Off the record' then, are there any ETAs on replacement containers? I think in the region of 'up to 20 weeks' was being speculated by one of the dealers over here... Ash Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcordell 2 #98 February 22, 2016 MonsterMo'Off the record' then, are there any ETAs on replacement containers? I think in the region of 'up to 20 weeks' was being speculated by one of the dealers over here... Ash They could be right and they could be wrong. See here's the reason those numbers are pure speculation. Without sharing more than I am allowed to, what I can say is the production time is going to take a certain minimum amount of time. That minimum amount of time is simply production. During any production week the factory can output a set number of containers. Of course the first in that stream of containers going out is going to be set back by the number of weeks it takes to produce the containers and then that stream of containers remains constant with X number of containers each week being put out from the factory until they are all remade. Nobody can tell you when container z will be produced because it depends on too many factors. Some of that depends on when the recall notice was received by the factory, when the original container was received by the factory, and based on those factors, where the container falls in line. Even knowing where a container falls in line doesn't necessarily give you an idea. Lets say for example, your container is rig 100 in line for production. Lets assume, as an example (not based on real numbers) that being 100 in line means your will be put out in the 9th week of production. There are going to be other factors that affect your place in line. If 20 of the containers ahead of yours have requested changes, those containers may be delayed as the changes have to be invoiced and paid for before production can begin on them. That could hypothetically move you up to #80 in line and move you to week 8 of production. Likewise, if a sponsored team has to have all their rigs replaced, perhaps those 8 people are prioritized in order to make training and competition schedules. That could push you back a week. All of that being a hypothetical situation of course, you can see that any speculation on when the rigs will be produced is simply that. Speculation. The replacement rigs are not going into the standard production line and the manufacturing time on them is not the same. There is no precedent for a dealer who is not directly involved in the process to base that estimate on. They could be spot on by chance or they could be way off. To simply state a number (like 20 weeks) is to assume that the first and last rigs off the line are all being produced at exactly the same time and leaving the factory on the same week. That's not even possible. I really wish I could give you a better idea of production time. I am getting that question every day and I have no specific answer. I know some of my customers are currently in production and some are still in the cue. I can promise that neither I, nor anyone at Parachute Systems is trying to keep anyone in the dark. When you start speculating on timelines all you are doing is setting up possibly false expectations and none of us want to do that.www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #99 February 22, 2016 Adding to Mcordell's posting ... it also depends on the colour of your binding tape and even the colour of thread your rig requires. For example, many factories like to sew all the black threaded rigs on Monday. Tuesday morning, they switch to grey thread, until all the grey rigs are done. Then they switch to blue thread, etc. So if your your rig is number 112, but it is sewn with black thread, it might get pushed closer to Monday. Meanwhile, rig number 88 needs green thread, so it gets delayed until Thursday afternoon when 6 other green rigs are scheduled for production. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcordell 2 #100 February 22, 2016 Message from Chris Dales, CEO of Parachute Systems: Fellow Skydivers, Customers and Friends! We are six weeks into the process of the recall. Thank you to all for the support, co-operation and assistance in getting your forms, rigs and information to us. We, at Parachute Systems, have worked hard in this short time to get organized and place additional staff, machines, materials and plans in place to service this recall and replacement. We will be able to release your place in the line and an estimate of timing for delivery by March 1st, 2016. Blue skies and thanks Chris Dales Feb 22nd, 2016www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
