Paralized friend, jump possible?

[LongWayToFall 0]

I have an old friend that I recently reconnected with. He is almost completely paralized, he does have use of his fingers, and possibly some other movement but for the most part he is completely paralized. How realistic is it pursue a skydive for him? I am sure it would be one of the greatest things every for him, and I would like to do everything I can to make this work. I am in the SF bay area, are any DZs around better suited for things like this? I would be willing to drive long distance if needed. Hopefully some DZs that have done this sort of thing can be contacted for advice, and possibly be convinced to loan some specialized equipment if it is necessary (I am thinking a leg lifting device for landing).

Anyways, please let me know if you have any tips to make this work, you would be helping to change someone's life.

Thank you!!!

Micah

[Lonnie 0]

ANYTHING is possible!! There are several paralysed jumpers. Call around the dropzones in your area to see who would be willing to take your friend for a jump

NEVER GIVE UP!

[PiLFy 0]

There are DZs that can make this happen for you. I've seen DZ pix of special days set aside to provide this extra service for people. As long as he doesn't need a ventilator. I'm not from California. Have you contacted Elsinore & Perris?

[NWFlyer 2]

Get in touch with Skydance in Davis - I know they've taken up folks with many different kinds of physical limitations. I think it'd be an excellent place to start (and not just because it's my home DZ).

www.skydanceskydiving.com

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[LongWayToFall 0]

Thanks for the help guys! I will give the DZs in my area a shout first, then try the SoCal DZs. I like Davis, if they can do it I would be stoked!

[flyangel2 2]

Quote

Thanks for the help guys! I will give the DZs in my area a shout first, then try the SoCal DZs. I like Davis, if they can do it I would be stoked!

If the good folks out at Davis can't help you, touch base with me and I'll see what we can do for you out at Perris.
Good luck and have fun, you'll love the group out at Davis.
Mary

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[skydiver604 0]

Check out this website,,,you can also download the skydiving manual for disabled skydiving.

Cheers

Chris

http://twitter.com/virtualmack/status/36988532908232704

"The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it." - Michelangelo

[jimjumper 25]

Jim Wallace at jimwallaceskydiving.com has taken multiple disabled students including one quadraplegic on an oxygen tank. He also took one of my groomsmen just prior to my wedding. The best at taking the disabled! His school is at Perris as as a seperate school.

[gimpboogie 0]

Quote

There are DZs that can make this happen for you. I've seen DZ pix of special days set aside to provide this extra service for people. As long as he doesn't need a ventilator. I'm not from California. Have you contacted Elsinore & Perris?

thought I'd let you know, I saw several yrs ago a paralyzed fellow on a ventilator doing a tandem.
It's on youtube somewhere, I just don't recall exactly how they did it, but if I do remember correctly, he was a fellow who had ALS and by then was allready on a ventilator- thus he had basically no bodily functions (including holding his head upright- in the wheelchair this man had a neck brace to keep his head from falling forward -chin to chest- so I'd say he had quite a bit of 'special needs' for that tandem jump. But as others have said- finding the RIGHT DZ is the key.

Many will say they can't do it. as that IS the case @ several places (rightfully so-if the tandem masters are not prepared, used to, capable of, this type of tandem, they must say so... which is only right thing to do.

yet some tandem masters are able to deal with a whole lot of different situations that several others are not, so keep asking around- you will find a drop zone where even that man was able to go for a sky dive.

it truly does boil down to
"never give up"

To become active member in the Bonus Days Club you must very narrowly escape eternal freefall ... one exciting time.)-Pat Works

[PiLFy 0]

Really? I've never seen a vent that wasn't awfully heavy looking. Even the "Portable" ones on wheelchairs look pretty heavy for free fall. I'm glad to hear they can make it work.

[gimpboogie 0]

Quote

Really? I've never seen a vent that wasn't awfully heavy looking. Even the "Portable" ones on wheelchairs look pretty heavy for free fall. I'm glad to hear they can make it work.

here is the video of the guy jumping with a vent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8mx_K2sMDQ&feature=player_embedded

To become active member in the Bonus Days Club you must very narrowly escape eternal freefall ... one exciting time.)-Pat Works

[PiLFy 0]

That's awesome, but he didn't jump w/a vent. He rigged scuba equipment (a regulator & a tank) to force feed oxygen through his trach. It evidently worked well enough for the brief time he depended on it. I'm guessing he rode to altitude on a regular vent. Then, switched over just before jumping.

[gimpboogie 0]

Quote

That's awesome, but he didn't jump w/a vent. He rigged scuba equipment (a regulator & a tank) to force feed oxygen through his trach. It evidently worked well enough for the brief time he depended on it. I'm guessing he rode to altitude on a regular vent. Then, switched over just before jumping.

corrected I am.
My apologies for the misleading semantics of saying "with" a vent, instead of saying a guy "on" a vent.

My intentions were merely to try to agree with what was previously stated, "anything is possible" (although perhaps it's not the case, that anything is possible).

While encouraging this fellow who wanted to know if it was possible for his paralyzed friend to jump.

Having said that, since were on the topic of whether its possible for paralyzed people to go for a jump
-I am speaking most specifically here about tandems, as its already shown quite well here on the forums that several paralyzed people are now jumping solo,
(Dale, Peter, Jarrett, Lonnie and myself included)

Here is a the YouTube video of my friend John (a C4/5 quad)
doing his 1st tandem. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm0TsCVkxV8&feature=player_embedded

Subsequently this Dz has agreed to promote John's adrenalin thirst, by giving him sponsorship for severely discounted tandems for the rest of his life!

I won't disclose the value of this discount merely because it is an agreement between the DZ & John, & I would not want to see a ton of paraplegics and quads going up to every DZ in USA asking the same discount just because this DZ has chosen to do so.

His general site http://www.extremechairing.com/sports.html
is a site he has created which is specifically dedicated to a variety of paralyzed people doing what he calls "extreme" sports.
(I would personally say some of them are sports that are not "typical" for many paralyzed people to be involved in)

The purpose for showing the link to the John's "general" site to the athletes he has posted
-although clearly only 1 of them being skydiving, the others closely related
-through being involved with parachutes in some way:
the para-gliding and BASE jumping,
is because some of the sports show (such as motocross specifically)
are ones that are typically not associated with paralyzed individuals.
My only hope is that by having shown that link, others with similar injuries, who have come to this forum because they want to try skydiving and either can not find a DZ they can access, may find something else to try, while they continue to seek a DZ to be able to sky dive.

As John's YouTube video description states,
' Over the past 5 years he has wanted to go sky diving, but each year's plans to go would fall threw for various reasons"
Knowing him, I can say that most of these reasons were:

1- he did not know where & how to start looking for a DZ until him and I became friends and I directed him to THIS SITE to come seeking a DZ who can accommodate him. Thus, DZ dot COM is the site which helped him to find a DZ that was able to provide him with the tandem he has been looking to do, for 5 yrs.

2-It still took him the other 2 yrs to find the DZ which was able to accommodate his needs.

So that only proves that PERSISTENCE does pay off, and giving up hope for a sky dive does not need to end with the 1st DZ that tells someone that they are not able to accommodate a similar request.


So I merely hope to provide the same for others, a place to see some activities they can do
(just as john went and did many of those activities while continuing to seek the DZ which he can finally go skydiving),
while they look for the DZ that will be able to accommodate their needs.

As we all know, not every DZ has TM's that can help in paraplegic or quadriplegic sky dives, while many d & many more are becoming more interested and able to do these sky dives as the years go on.

I would hope that some day, every DZ with TM's would be able to accommodate such a sky dive, but realistically this will take much time, education, and most importantly the comfort level of the TM's.

As ultimately it is their lives that are at stake in every tandem, regardless of who they are jumping with, which is why each TM should never be chastized for refusing someone from a tandem.

As skydiving is not a 'walk in the park' (despite some BASE jumper's describing it as so for them)

To become active member in the Bonus Days Club you must very narrowly escape eternal freefall ... one exciting time.)-Pat Works

[PiLFy 0]

"As long as he doesn't need a ventilator."

I stand corrected

[gimpboogie 0]

Quote

"As long as he doesn't need a ventilator."

I stand corrected

Now having ALS
*(like him-which is why he is on the vent[while my personal choice is not to 'go there' -on a vent- which is why I have DNR- but thats another issue)

the typical progression of the disease is that by the time the person needs a vent, they basically have lost most other functional muscles of their body -including hands- BUT there is a form of ALS (bulbar) which attacks the respiratory system first, and those individuals could be still even walking- while needing a vent- yet that form of ALS usually takes the life of the person VERY quickly, -often within a year to 2 after onset.
(there are 13 variants of this illness discovered to date)

from the little bit I could gather from information on the ALS forums -back in the days when I first saw that video, is this fellow had been affected for a quite a while (which -sort of like here- people around the world go to-as the incidence rate of ALS is 1/100,000 so the 'community' is a fairly 'tight knit' one)


This leads to the rigging of his system
(purely as my speculation since a) I'm not a rigger, and b) I've never actually messaged the person who posted that video to ask)

that PERHAPS they may have used a set up which included a timer of some sorts. That would activate the regulator according to the timing of his vent regulator.

OR somehow were able to utilize the regulators that come with medical O2 portable tanks that have 2 different types of regulators. 1- continuous flow or 2- provides 'spurts' of air every so many seconds
(I haven't really counted what that timing was, when I used those regulators as my current regulators are continuous flow - as I check my O2 levels several times daily and often have actually gotten geared up, realized I'm out of breath just from gearing up= so I step down off my load and do not jump that day- )

The point of this all being, really that

IF someone on a vent, who finds a DZ willing to go through the extra work involved in helping that person to jump= like this fellow- then clearly there is some possibility.
So the link is there, with the hope that if ever it was needed- contacting the person who posted the video, and perhaps learning which DZ it happened, it would be possible to contact that DZ to learn HOW they managed to deal with the rigging issue.

I do think it's remarkable this type of jump was undertaken (perhaps the only one of its kind).

I understand this discussion is going somewhat off from the original topic and I apologize for this, while still remaining within the bounds of the purpose of this forum.

Just hoping that what I've shared has
a) given some hope for paraplegics & quadriplegics who wish to try a tandem.

b) shown that with some cooperative effort between the DZ staff & the potential jumper putting their minds together, even something so exceptional as a customer on a vent, can potentially do a tandem,.

While clearly there may be some exceptions, if the rigging system did require some input from the guy on the vent, then customers such as the late Christopher Reeve would not be able to jump.

Which is why I said, -perhaps not anything is possible- while also thinking, IF this person had no hand control, then clearly the DZ along with him & his support system were able to somehow utilize the typical medical O2 regulators in conjunction with the scuba tank.

I also do assume that he was on a typical smallest possible portable vent on the climb to altitude.

As we know the sky dive itself takes merely a few minutes, & a person regardless of their breathing ability, could withstand potentially lower oxygen levels provided by this type of rigging, then the vent.

Especially if they exited @9,500 for example- (watching the video and counting his FF time would give a fairly good indicator),
the customer will still have an enjoyable sky dive, while taking his safety seriously.

As often 1st time tandem's do not know if they were let out at 13.500f or at 9,500f.

Two examples are:
my son- after his tandem said 'Holy f*ck! 60 seconds felt like 4!" & one situation where the TM was not able to get stable, & tumbled in flips down to what he admitted was around 7,000f before he could get the drogue out,
Asked the customer
"how did you enjoy the backflips?"
she replied:
"Oh did we do back flips?"


(I was there to witness that 'situation' listened to the TM as he came with a white face and said 'holy sh*t !". I was also there to watch the video.

They left with the videographer as typical, then the tandem quickly disappeared to finally see a tiny dot of the white drogue & the canopy opening very quickly soon after they had slowed down enough to safely do so.)

-Yes there is an explanation for what happened- a very thin small TM using a handicam for the 1st time, with a similarly sized customer. The TM admitted the combination of a similarly weighing customer, who was not arching, & the handicam being used for the 1st time by this TM created enough instability for the pair that it became difficult to gain a safe drogue deployment position until they tumbled for nearly 6,000f.

Thus the point being,
that most 1st time customers often truly do not know if they had a shorter FF then the typical 60 sec.'s

a) the customer had no idea they were flipping, (nor the reality of their situation), and
b) the she truly enjoyed her sky dive tremendously and said it ([i]without prompting) that this experience WAS better then s*x
(1st time I've actually heard a customer say that of their own admission without asked the question)

Thanks PiLFy, I certainly am not 'debating' your initial comment, as I don't think your initial comment to my video reply was to discount my comment that a guy on a vent did a tandem sky dive.

while had you NOT made the comment, the additional discussion we engaged in, would not have resulted, and the revelation that even a customer on a vent could potentially be rigged up for a sky dive.

Which resulted in additional information that I think fits with the purpose of this forum:
-skydivers with disabilities-

I would consider this particular jump to have been one of the most difficult ones to manage the logistics of.

Thank you for the change to engage in this with you, and I hope it did give the hope for others to see that quite a large variety of disabilities can potentially be managed via a tandem sky dive.

While maintaining the position that every DZ should NOT be expected to put forth this type extensive planning to accommodate a customer.

Blue skies, PiLFy

To become active member in the Bonus Days Club you must very narrowly escape eternal freefall ... one exciting time.)-Pat Works

[PiLFy 0]

"Now having ALS
*(like him-which is why he is on the vent[while my personal choice is not to 'go there' -on a vent- which is why I have DNR- but thats another issue)"
I'm sorry.

Continuous oxygen wouldn't work. My guess is they rigged a scuba regulator.

"The TM admitted the combination of a similarly weighing customer, who was not arching, & the handicam being used for the 1st time by this TM created enough instability for the pair that it became difficult to gain a safe drogue deployment position until they tumbled for nearly 6,000f."
Hmmmm....... A (qualified?) TI tumbled for several thousand feet? I find that troubling.

"Thank you for the change to engage in this with you, and I hope it did give the hope for others to see that quite a large variety of disabilities can potentially be managed via a tandem sky dive."
Anytime, GB. It was interesting. Have a great season

[gimpboogie 0]

Quote

"Now having ALS
*(like him-which is why he is on the vent[while my personal choice is not to 'go there' -on a vent- which is why I have DNR- but thats another issue)"
I'm sorry.


*********No need for 'sorries', LIFE is terminal for everyone, and each of us finds our own way through it somehow.... this just happens to be my adventure.... and seems I need to take ALS along for the tour***********


Continuous oxygen wouldn't work. My guess is they rigged a scuba regulator.


*****Yes! I actually found a video from the Christopher Reeve Foundation
where they interview this guy. *****

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8mx_K2sMDQ&feature=autoplay&list=WL52729D3E01CD3D5F&index=2&playnext=1



"The TM admitted the combination of a similarly weighing customer, who was not arching, & the handicam being used for the 1st time by this TM created enough instability for the pair that it became difficult to gain a safe drogue deployment position until they tumbled for nearly 6,000f."
Hmmmm....... A (qualified?) TI tumbled for several thousand feet? I find that troubling.


***** it was for us all that day... . Needless to say, he's never worn the handicam again. Fortunately it was a very quiet evening, mid week, and this couple were the only tandems we had. As the TM was quite shook up upon landing -fortunately his passenger didn't know a thing about what had happened.*********


"Thank you for the change to engage in this with you, and I hope it did give the hope for others to see that quite a large variety of disabilities can potentially be managed via a tandem sky dive."
Anytime, GB. It was interesting. Have a great season

****likewise

To become active member in the Bonus Days Club you must very narrowly escape eternal freefall ... one exciting time.)-Pat Works