Closing loop too long

[hackish 8]

For me that loop still looks too long. Not by a lot but enough to pull the pin through. I tried to pull mine through and without trying very hard wasn't able to.

[dpreguy 14]

If the eye of the loop is big enough for a standard pull up (ribbon with pointy ends) the entire pin will go thru too.

Not everyone uses a packing tool. Most use a pull up ribbon. Anyone who shoves the entire pin thru is simply a bad packer.

In fact, I cringe sometimes seeing a packer with their feet on the rig and leaning back to get it closed. Sometimes the opposite side of the rig actually lifts off the floor! Huge grommet strain. That packer with the packing tool, leaning back with huge force at the end of the pack job should have instead tightened each flap in turn. Eventually, the" "50+ pound last pull" method, with arms, legs and back pulls the last grommet to looseness or failure by tearing it out. Bad technique.

[Alexg3265 0]

So I've sat down with a couple people and we tried to duplicate this... The only way to reasonably get it all the way through is with a pull up cord. What I mean by that is that you physically cannot accidentally lodge the pin in like that without using your fingers and relieving tension on the loop, i.e. Pull up cord. I sat with my rig and 3 others and tried the best I could to force it through by any means necessary once the pull-up cord is removed and it just isn't happening. Go ahead and try yourselves. I even added a 1" too long closing loop and still damn near impossible. Neither myself or 3 others could get mine or theirs to go all the way through with just their hands. My conclusion is it had to be packed like that. It's pretty easy to get it through while packing and pulling on the loop. People here in Deland are pretty lax about pin checks. Just an observation I've made. I've lived here for a year and I've been asked to check someone's pin once. I always check mine.... Multiple times....
My point is even if it's a busy day with 3 planes running and you're on a 2 minute call, grabbing your gear from the packer, and running to the plane, stop and at least look at your shit. Jesus people. 20 seconds, that's all it takes.

I was that kid jumping out if his tree house with a bed sheet. My dad wouldn't let me use the ladder to try the roof...

[nikaru 1]

The jumper:



The packer:

[erdnarob 1]

The two grommets, seen on the picture, are of the same size (# 0 I guess) but their overlaping (or near overlaping) is far from being right which leads me to say that the loop is too long and yields to unsufficient tension. A right tension wouldn't allow the eye of the pin going thru the loop.
OTOH, we all can question the jumper pin check before boarding the aircraft.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[Squeak 17]

erdnarob

The two grommets, seen on the picture, are of the same size (# 0 I guess) but their overlaping (or near overlaping) is far from being right which leads me to say that the loop is too long and yields to unsufficient tension. A right tension wouldn't allow the eye of the pin going thru the loop.
OTOH, we all can question the jumper pin check before boarding the aircraft.

it's a Vector rig, the grommets are not meant to overlap.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[piisfish 135]

erdnarob

The two grommets, seen on the picture, are of the same size (# 0 I guess) but their overlaping (or near overlaping) is far from being right which leads me to say that the loop is too long and yields to unsufficient tension. A right tension wouldn't allow the eye of the pin going thru the loop.
OTOH, we all can question the jumper pin check before boarding the aircraft.

The manufacturer says that is the way it should be.
If there is not enough tension, then the canopy is too small.Or the Dbag is too small. And in all cases the hole of the loop is too big.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[hackish 8]

There is a balancing act. If it is too tight then the opening for the flap will be obscured by the tape on your flaps and it will become worn from repeated openings.

As others pointed out you need to have a properly sized canopy to fill the space in there. Experienced packers/riggers should be able to tell you in an instant if the amount of force and length of loop is appropriate.

-Michael

[erdnarob 1]

I have a Vector III and you are right. The binding tapes of both flaps on the picture are overlaping and it's the way. Not for the grommets but the closing loop is too long anyway to allow the wide part of the pin going through. First time I see that kind of problem.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[erdnarob 1]

What length do you you recommend for the closing loop hole ?

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[hajnalka 0]

I'm with Michael.

I'm getting the idea that a lot of people may disagree with me, but here goes
IMO, closing loops should be tight. On some rigs (Vectors, Infinities) the side flap grommets are designed to not line up, but that doesn't mean you should be able to pull over 1/2" through the last grommet so that you can accidentally put the eye of the pin + bridle through there .

I tried this with several rigs in my loft today, using both pullup cords and closing tools, and the only way I could replicate this was with loops that - to me - were dangerously long.

Also, I often use my feet against the container to close rigs: Maybe because I'm a smallish woman with less upper body strength as some ... but in 15 years of full-time rigging I don't think I've damaged anyone's container. Never saw grommets pulling out, for example.

I HAVE seen side flap stiffeners crack, usually due to overstuffed containers where the owner wanted a super-tight loop and packed bridle-up when the bag is much taller than it is thick.

I feel that this is more of a 'total loop length' issue than a 'size of the eye of the loop' issue.

Obviously the size of the main and dbag are important as well, especially on a rig with the loop on the bottom flap. I've seen too many people who almost had their arm torn off from premature deployment while in a sit, due to downsizing, loose loop, etc.

Over-stressing a container with a tight loop can be an issue for sure.
To me, potential container repairs are a better bet than the mayhem that can happen when main pins come out prematurely.

I like loop length where a reasonable person can just pull enough through the last flap to insert the pin.