why did this happen in FF?

[gimpboogie 0]

Hi,

In anticipation of my upcoming solo dive
I've been scrutinizing one 'situation' which occurred in my 9th dive with Angus.

In this video
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=JWtiQyGVJl4&feature=PlayList&p=F31C6728656266C7&index=2
in time frames 1;14-1:16
I see that legs seem to have quie a bit of momentum coming down from the 1st backflip,
pulling Angus behind me through the 2nd backflip.

In 1:14 both of our legs are parallel to each others,
but by 1:16 my legs are 90 degrees farther into a flip them Angus' are.
Our legs are then 90 degrees to each others.

Am I correct in thinking that this clip would indicate that
potentially I will always require more altitude for everything in FF
(except perhaps straight belly flying)

if my lower body sort of 'swings' like that when I try any flips and even potentially transfers from sit to belly (I might end up with momentum pulling me into a flip instead). Which, if it happens I'm fine with but certainly need to calculate this into my dive plan if it is going to be a regular thing.

When it happened,
we did not plan for 2 backflips and Angus nor I could not stop the 1st one but the 2nd was steady easily.
It did not frighten me in any manner, only thoughts were in my mind to arch continually and hard regardless of wether I went for a 3rd flip.

In that regard I am anticipating to utilize extra altitude at all times, and also want to better understand what is happening.

What are your thoughts on
a) what is happening in those frames 1:14-1:16?
b) head down, would it be possible in my case (I'm always thinking of that, because I really would like to fly head down -a lot )

To become active member in the Bonus Days Club you must very narrowly escape eternal freefall ... one exciting time.)-Pat Works

[ltdiver 3]

In your debrief, what did Angus say? He'd be the best one to give you input since he was there.
Too me, it just looks like you're not in exact synch with each other's start and stop of the 1st to 2nd backflip.

Like my first instructor said to me, "You're thinking too much. Just go up and enjoy yourself!".

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[gimpboogie 0]

ok -thinking too much, I'll accept that.

As for what my coach said it was something to this effect:

Yes the second back flip wasn't planned and I couldn't
stop it either. (probably not the exact words).


I KNOW Angus is an exceptionally good skydiver (have to be, in order to be a world record holder, G-2-C1)
and if he thought it was critical (which it was not we just exited from 10,500f 1 sec prior) would have found a way to stop the flips.. or.... something.

In that dive, we were together so I knew I could rely on him if I could not do it.

So I take his " I couldn't stop it" as either
-it didn't matter if we stopped it at that altitude-lots more altitude in the bank still
or
-was not trying very hard to stop it, to see if I could. After all it was the dive where I needed to 'do it' myself throughout the dive.


Perhaps I'm over analyzing that one situation because
a) I'm doing something riskier then tandem progression and want to be aware as possible.

b) I do not want to "fail" (I do not mean going in, or smashing myself up_only). It is important that this works out.

I'm a former International level athlete,
competitive training always meant 'analyzing to death" all our video footage of races and some training.

c) perhaps the "butterflies" are migrating back my stomach, and are not flying in formation yet and I'm a bit more nervous then I think I am....

Being a 'perfectionist" doesn't necessarily help with the over analyzing part.

Probably what I need to do is "let it go" for now,
trusting that have I altitude awareness, will be diving 2 altimeters, and have lots of altitude in the bank before my 5,500f deployment.

Thanks....
I'll try to stop obsessing on how to correct it, I'll figure it out once I'm in AFF and experiencing it... easier to try to understand what happened, I would imagine.

Be well,
-minna

To become active member in the Bonus Days Club you must very narrowly escape eternal freefall ... one exciting time.)-Pat Works

[PhreeZone 14]

Honestly it look like your legs had momentium that carried through while the tandem instructor used his leg strength to apply resistance against the wind. Do you have any and if some how much muscle strength to control your upper legs?

Head down flight is mainly controled with leg inputs so depending on the amount of control you have will determine how hard it will be to do head down flight.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[gimpboogie 0]

Quote

Honestly it look like your legs had momentium that carried through while the tandem instructor used his leg strength to apply resistance against the wind. Do you have any and if some how much muscle strength to control your upper legs?

Head down flight is mainly controled with leg inputs so depending on the amount of control you have will determine how hard it will be to do head down flight.

that was what I feared I was looking at.
My legs had so much momentum
that while Angus has legs straight
(im imagining trying to stop the rotation-thus his
comment about not being able to stop the 1st one)
mine are halfway up to my chest,
bringing us into the second flip.



No control outside of some hip flexors.
Like squeezing my butt cheeks together,
and while doing that can recruit
the side of my hips,
running down the side of my leg
so if you were to watch me doing it,
you'd see my legs move about
2 inches toward each other
as I sit here and flex my hip muscles as hard as I can.

Hope that was a description giving enough understanding.
So, no weight bearing beyond perhaps it was 12 lbs
PT said last time.... then my legs buckle out from under me.


I was thinking that is what was happening,
after looking at it more carefully.

It IS an important clue
to me,
if I understand anything...
to what will happen when I commence any movement outside of belly, side slides, is that
tracking will be difficult with my legs fixed at optimum stability in FF..
as will precise flips (it seems that this will be the case in subsequent flips).

I believe I'll learn to sit fly, but the head down I was thinking a different method then the typical.

legs are fixed at the knees at an angle.
both together -thighs facing the ground.
To counter balance that, I was hoping to put both arms back, as if riding rear risers.
I would have hoped that would create the symmetry.
But it might cause forward movement with unstability developing quickly.

I shall see at some point surely,
yet also want to think it out all.

As Angus now has sent me instructions on tunnel drills and our AFF progression drills.
Basically am to memorize each step,
of each dive in each section of the program.
starting with the tunnel skills.

I have 5 weeks to memorize it all.
We will hang in the harness, dirt dive them
each over the next weeks.

Weekends at the DZ dirt diving all the AFF dives....
obsessive perhaps, but Angus is willing to join me,
and he believes in muscle memory as I do.

I want to learn,
and learn well.
am 'smashed up' enough all ready
want to become a good skydiver
even if i have to ride that bus for canopy for the rest of my life,
i'll just start to focus on accuracy with it.

Yet my true love is in the FF.
which is why I am so critical of the video,
and wanting to know what is happening,
why and is there anything i can do about it.
or is it something to adjust my altitude goals around.
(If I realize Im going to end up with a 2 for 1 each time I try to flip, or the side slide will eat up 2x the alt. for me to find stability... then I want to be prepared ans accept 'that's life' at least I'm flying

To become active member in the Bonus Days Club you must very narrowly escape eternal freefall ... one exciting time.)-Pat Works