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marcin

Discsectomy and jumping

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Few weeks ago my disc hernia b/w L5/S1 ruptured. The free fragment was removed surgically. Obviously that disc is pretty much degenerated.

Doctors say no extreme sports for the future...[:/], its not really my idea of life...

Apparently I should expect for the two vertaebras around that disc to naturally fixate with time leaving somewhat limited mobility - this is apparently good, leaving less chance for instability. Rest of my spine is quite good.

Anyone having similar problems, perhaps some time ago? Are you still jumping, are you having any symptoms?

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my disc between L5/S1 has been bulging out for some time. It got bad enough that it put pressure on the nerve going down my left leg, rendering parts of it numb and making me walk funny. That was 3 years ago. After a series of steroid shots into the area of the problematic disc, it shrank back from the nerve enough to let me return to normal. However, I still feel a twinge every now and then in that spot. It doesn't bother me when I'm jumping, but I can't lift anything too heavy.

Your problem is worse... I guess all you can do is take it a day at a time and see how it goes. If worse comes to worse, they can just remove that disc and fuse the two vertebrae together, and that can reduce mobility somewhat but I have no idea what that would do to everyday things...
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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My symptoms were quite rapid. Two days following the rupture my left leg was numb, some muscles completely out. At least the initial really strong pain was gone when it went all numb :P.

I was operated within a week but my left calf and part of the buttocks is still 95% out (3 weeks post op). Hopefully it will recover within foreseeable future.

No pain in the back so far.

I wish I paid more attention to it when it was only bulging. If you can, try to exercise regularly your back and abs with rehab-type (not gym-type) exercises, so it only stays a small hernia.

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...the two vertaebras around that disc to naturally fixate with time leaving somewhat limited mobility...



I have a spinal fusion, which is probably somewhat similar to the two fused discs you are describing (mine involves 3 vertebrae). I've been jumping with the fusion for several years without any real issues. As long as you're careful, and work into things slowly, I don't see that you're likely to have any big problems.

I have pretty much constant back pain. Packing makes it worse.

Be aware that your spine will not flex as well as normal, which is one of it's natural ways of absorbing shock. So, you will be more susceptible to future injury, and hard impacts that wouldn't injure a fully healthy spine could injure you (I broke my back a second time largely for this reason).
-- Tom Aiello

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SnakeRiverBASE.com

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Yes, I've heard some negative opinions about the spinal fusion.

My surgeon simply removed part of the fragmented disc, but apparently because of the remaining disc being pretty disfunctional, the two vertebrae will naturally fuse to some extent (also something about tendons hardening and becoming bone-like structure as a body's natural defensive response to spinal instability). I dont know how will that be different from surgical fusion.

One well-known surgeon warned me against rehab exercises and attempts to try to increase the flexibility of the affected segment, saying that it will prevent the fixation. So I am a bit confused now.

Tom, you must be doing a lot of base jumps, the increased opening shock is then not causing you problems? Other discs around the fused section are not showing signs of deterioration? Are you doing some regular back/abs exercises?

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Tom, you must be doing a lot of base jumps, the increased opening shock is then not causing you problems? Other discs around the fused section are not showing signs of deterioration? Are you doing some regular back/abs exercises?



I'm pretty much exclusively doing BASE jumps (I don't really skydive very much).

Slider down openings are typically much harder than skydiving openings. They haven't really caused me any problems at all. The rest of my spine is suffering from various "related" issues (mostly postural issues causing pain), but none of them seem to stem directly from openings (or anything else jumping related).

I do quite a bit of regular ab/back exercises. My experience was that the physical therapy type rehab exercises were by far the most effective at relieving pain over the long term.

I'd guess that your surgeon was warning you against doing flexibility exercises prior to the vertebrae fusing. After they grow together, I can't imagine any downside to doing exercises.

For what it's worth, the thing that helps me most with the pain from all these back injuries is regular exercise.

My wife is a doctor whose specialty includes rehabilitation of spinal cord injury. I'll ask her to look at this thread.
-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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My wife is a doctor whose specialty includes rehabilitation of spinal cord injury. I'll ask her to look at this thread.



Here's my translation of what she said:

1) Ask your specific surgeon about your fusion. The guy who has actually been inside your back is going to have the best perspective on what it can and cannot do.

2) Once the bone healing has taken place (your surgeon can tell you when this has happened), there shouldn't be any drawbacks to strengthening your core muscles (abs and back).

3) Don't give up something you love. You may have to adjust your skydiving to take new risks into account (for example, it may be a good idea to upsize your canopy), but as long as you can adjust your participation to take into account any additional risks, there is no reason you would have to stop skydiving. Giving up the things that make your life fulfilling will not help your recovery.
-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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they can just remove that disc and fuse the two vertebrae together, and that can reduce mobility somewhat but I have no idea what that would do to everyday things...



I have L1 to L3 fused together (following an L2 burst-type fracture), it doesn't change much. I can still touch my feet with my fingers when I bend. But L1-L3 is lower in the back that L5/S1, so that could be different for marcin.

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I don't know about a herniated disc rupturing. I did have my L4-L5-S1 fused when I was 16 due to a congenital defect where the "dog ears" on both sides of the vertebrae were fractured and left my vertebrae to move and put pressure on disc and spine. I am now 39. I have ridden horses, been thrown off of them, done cave-diving where the weight of the gear was much more, and recently took up skydiving this last year. I have no pain when in air, only when doing too much on ground such as dirt diving for too long with gear or trying to do too much arching on ground on creepers. I am with you. . . if I can't do anything I love, then it isn't really living. Now, tempering that with some sensibility, I would say look for other opinions from orthopedic specialist who deal with "sports" related injuries and people so that they are less likely to tell you you can't do, but try to find a way that you can UNLESS it is just too far gone, and then be honest with you.
People Too Weak To Follow Their Own Dreams Will Always Keep You From Following Yours.

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7 weeks post op I am feeling much better, my back and abs really strong from all the rehab, no pain whatsoever, so the future looks brighter :)
I will try hard to avoid doing anything stupid for the next few months and feel confident about returning to sport(s) perhaps around June.

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I had an L3-S1 instrumented fusion in 1999 and had trained hard through rehab and decided to jump again. In April 2004, I made a tandem just to get back into the air-gusty winds and highly loaded the tandemaster had control of the canopy and proceeded to pound us into the peas-with his 220 lbs landing on top of me. Results:1 broken rib,bad compression fracture L1,and 2 breaks in my talibone. The fusion survived unscathed. L1 and L2 disc is now herniated.Chronic pain and almost complete inability to engage in ANY physical activity is a result.Just bad luck.An injured spine will NEVER heal,once the natural mechanics are changed-especially by a fusion and even a lamenectomy can really make you miserable.Unfortunately, I'm done jumping-risk of paralysis is too great. Just be careful and listen to the advice of activity aware physicians.Blue Skys
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Freedom isn't free. Don't forget: Mother Earth is waiting for you--there is a debt you have to pay...... POPS #9329 Commercial Pilot,Instrument MEL

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I had discectomy of C4-5 with fusion in December 2003 and The Big Man had discectomy of L4-5 in October 2005. Both of our herniations were due to degeneration and were exacerbated by relatively small things like slipping on ice and a couple of whacko Velocity and Sabre I openings over a couple of years.

In my case, the herniation weakened my right arm and hand so much I couldn't lift a glass of water and I had constant shooting pain in the right shoulder. It was so much fun!! All symptoms were immediately alleviated post-op. I took 2 months off of jumping before the surgery and another 4 post. I slowly started jumping again, changing my canopy to a Spectre lined with Dacron for the softer, springy openings. My jumping has picked up in the last year, and it's not a problem to jump all weekend. I do have to be careful about stretching and I really feel it if I don't. I've also recently taken up Pilates (check out www.stottpilates.com) and even after just a couple of weeks, it's been a huge help with overall strength building and postural training. I've since switched canopies to the Pilot (also for the soft openings) and am now on a Katana. However, I've held onto my Spectre for those events when I know I'll be jumping quite a lot in a short amount of time or whenever my neck and shoulders aren't feeling quite so strong.

Oren's herniation made his sciatic nerve go completely crazy, to the point that he couldn't stand up or walk for longer than 1 or 2 minutes. Life was impossible. As with me, his symptoms were immediately gone after surgery, with some residual numbness in his right foot that went away over 3 weeks. He had quite a lot of PT, involving mostly core and isometric exercises. After about 4 months off post-op, Oren started slowly jumping again, also with a Spectre lined with Dacron. Now that he's jumping more regularly, he's back on his Katana full-time but the Velocity is still waiting in the wings.

I think with careful planning and listening to your body, you can come back to full-time jumping. You must be patient, though. Make sure you have a canopy with more forgiving opening characteristics. Pick "perfect" days to jump. Give yourself a season or two to pick up the pace and constantly monitor the health of your spine! Having a great surgeon who is also a very active athlete was a big bonus for us. We're on Dr. John Small's Family Plan!

Good luck & let me know if you need any further information!

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Thats good news again:)
I've ordered a Crossfire 2, to replace my Impulse (Cobalt), although going from 105 to 99 (@2.1-2.2) perhaps is not the best idea.

I was really sick of ocasional hard openings, although they mostly seemed to impact my neck, which also hurts btw. Carrying video and camera clearly doesn't help .

My lower back seems to be healing fine, but my left leg only gains strenght back slowly. I was given an estimation of 12 months before the sciatic nerve recovers fully.

I already did some mountain biking and exercise 5-7 times a week. Patience is a virtue;)

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Oren's loads his Katana 120 at 2:1 with no problems at all, so I don't see why loading should be an issue as long as you can have consistent good openings. One of the instructors at my dz also had discectomy and fusion of C4-5 and her Crossfire has been treating her extremely well post-op. Then again, none of us wear stuff on our heads, so only you'll be able to gauge how your neck is doing.

A small Spectre or Triathlon lined with Dacron can be pretty fun, even though it has "thick ankles"! Tony Hathaway (www.tonyhathaway.com) does about 1000 camera jumps/year and has a Spectre 120 with dacron that he loads at about 1.5:1. That man swoops the snot out of that canopy. Seriously, he easily gets through the entire length of our pond on rear risers, gets grass stains on the stabilizers when he's carving it out, and generally makes most Velocity pilots look like a pack of candy asses!

Anyway, keep up with the physical training - we're all stuck with it for life now! :P If you can see a Pilates trainer, I would highly recommend it. Try to find one who is certified in Reformer, Cadillac & Arc Barrel. You'll learn an entire new way to position and strengthen your shoulders and neck and become very aware of spinal placement. It's a little neurotic and obsessive as far as exercise goes, but I figure it can only help and I'd really like to avoid more surgery down the line. Not skydiving for 6 months made me a horrible creature to be around! :D

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High loading - running out in no-wind (sometimes). One of the PT's I've seen, wrote his final paper on the impact parachute landings have on the spine(!).

He said that the moment you touch down with some forward speed and slight forward bend in your back means several hundred pounds overload on your L5-S1. And I did indeed, hurt my back previously while running out a landing with my head below the knee level:D. So it is not necessarily the openings that damage your lower back (although they definitely impact your neck).

I am also totally for exercise and since I've always been doing sports regularly, this should not be a problem.

I currently do the (very tough) physio exercises plus gym, swimming and increasingly biking. Its interesting what you say about Pilates. I wonder what exercises are there for neck strenghtening?

I was also recommended the "Alexander method" for spine. Learning the correct posture, relaxing etc.

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know this is a little late and i normally don't read this forum, but i had the same thing happen to me.. sorta..

had a microdiscetomy between l5-s1 back in 2002 from a buldging disk (10mm protrusion) and was jumping regularly about 3 months after surgery. my leg is still partially numb from nerve damage and if i pack i can normally only do about 3 jumps before my back is killing me but i'm fine.. if i don't pack i can make almost as many jumps in a day as i want to..... sitting on the plane in wierd positions makes it worse, but it is barable..... my only feer is a hard landing or opening that will reinjur the disc since it is weaker now.... it sucked to begin with knowing i was 21 and had already had back surgery, but i forsee myself jumping for atleast a few more decades!!!

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"i have no reader's digest version"

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