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Tinkerbelle

neck injury

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Hi guys!
I am a neck injury person from too many hard openings wearing too much extra lead in a bad position on my rig! Is anyone else out there also suffering from a neck injury? How did it happen? How do you cope? Have you all found anything that helps? Have you been able to return to skydiving despite medics warning you otherwise, as so many do?
I have 2 herneated discs in my neck and some bone spurs pressing on my spine at C 5-6, 6-7. I also wore a solid lead plate attached to the back pad of my reserve that dug into my spine about 1 & 1/2"and pushed in and crushed the spinus process of a couple of vertebrae in my upper Thorasic region, generating an unbearable amount of pain that radiates throughout my whole neck, upper back, under my right shoulder blade, and down my arms, specifically the right and into the fingers causing some tingling, numbness, and weakness! It is very painful and disabling. Does anyone have any good suggestions about care for the neck post injury? I hate it when medics call you chronic. 'cause that basically just says they have given up on you.
I had surgery, but just a foramenotomy, which was supposed to have been a minor, conservative "procedure" intended to eliviate some pressure on a nerve radiating down my right arm, which was causing some loss of strength and tingling in my right fingers. Unfortunately, I was not told at the time that having that surgery would prevent my being able to have any further surgery to remove the really bad pathology. I got scared and rushed into surgery by a bum surgeon who was just after saving his job. Apparently they were making cut backs at the Hospital, and since he had not operated in 20 years, he was at risk of losing his job. They stopped doing the surgery he performed on me 20 years ago because of the damage it caused to all the highly integrated, delicate, and essential muscles and nerves of the neck in addition to so many that pass through the neck, which as it turns out, is far worse than any benefit I gained from having the surgery! There is even a name for those who have had that specific surgery, the "Post laminectomy syndrome". How weird is that to have a syndrome named after and generated from having a specific surgery.
Be careful all you injured people....
Lessons I learned...
1) if it hurts, stop and fix it! You may be able to just suck it up now, but if it hurts, after a while if you don't fix it, that hurt may become permanent!
2) Be sure not to be scared into having anything done by any medic. Stop and research the problem, every possible solution, and the histories all the procedures, the outcomes, and all the relevant medics as well on your own first! Lots of medics out there don't care about the welfare of the individual, but each have their own impetus driving their intentions, be it their professional reputation, keeping their job in a publish or perish kind of environment, or they have lots of allamony to pay, or the mortgae on that million dollar mansion on the ocean cliff is due, or they just bought a fancy new BMW!
3)Don't ever let anyone touch you who is > 45 years old! They should be young enough to have learned all the latest, greatest techniques, and still be green enough to be reading, still interested in, and keeping up to date on all the latest info. Too many older medics learn just a couple things, then sit back on their laurels and become 1 trick ponys. refusing to put in the time or effort to learn new techniques. You must find a medic who is new enough to be still learning, yet experienced enough not to be using you as a learning tool! That is a tricky fine line to decipher. Also, remember that in any given med school class, there were those at the top of the class, and those at the bottom, who just barely got by. Be sure to know where in their class your medic was, and only visit those at the top of the class!

4) It is a shame, but medicine seems to be so subjective! For any given problem there are many different solutions depending on who you talk to, so in all honesty, you must do your own research and know what you think is best and find the medic who agrees with you. Don't let anyone talk you into something you feel is wrong!
5) Be sure to look into and first try every non-invasive alternative before you ever allow anyone to cut on you. They may try to tell you that the surgery is just a "minor procedure", but know that any surgery will leave you changed forever. It will never feel the same as it did before, and you can never undo the operation. Surgery is major, no matter how much a surgeon tries to diminish the impact.
6) when they say... well, there is an 80% chance you will be better, know that you just might end up in that 20% category!
7) Try to learn to forgive those fair weathered friends around the DZ who do not stick with you after you have had some problems and can't entertain them or skydive with them like you used to do - that is a hard one -
If anyone knows how to better deal with this last issue better than I, please let me know! I have been so alone and lonely since I fell victim to a neck problem and have not been able to participate in my sports like I used to. How do you deal with this? Where do you go to make new friends if all you have ever known in the way of socializing is skydiving?
Luv -n-stuff
Annie
:)
Rehab is for quitters.

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I got whiplash from a couple seriously hard openings.

However, I have a very trusted Chiropracter that fixed me up, put me back together and sent me on my way for way less money then should be allowed.

Basically, he didn't dick me around like folks hear about chiropracters doing, he told me exactly what was wrong (which I varified with Doc Stewart, a skydiving mentor that's a long time chiropractor), told me how many visits he thought it would take to fix (3-5) and even cut me a sweeeeet deal on cost, since he knew I'm a broke-ass college student.

Needless to day, 4 adjustments later, I was 100% squared away, good to go.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Wow, that's really cool!
I would be careful about those chiropractors though. Before you go next time look up chiropractic malpractice on the internet.
The straw that broke my neck was a chiropractor. He did that neck torsion thing, and 2 hours later my hands were numb. 2 days later and I was having surgery. I have never been the same since! It was said that he broke my neck. I don't know for sure whether it was he or my parachute openings, but he did definitely seal the deal.
I looked it up and that torsin thing is so dangerous they can even bust carotid arteries and kill you right there on the table. You are supposed to be allerted to this danger and sign a waiver understanding and accepting the risk, but few ever do that. They just twist everyone's neck. I asked the guy at the time what was the difference between that and breaking someone's neck, and he just said, "oh don't be silly, I know what I am doing, and have been doing it for years."
Well granted if someone has a healthy neck to begin with, a little cracking isn't gonna kill them, but if they have some inherent pathology already in there, it just might. The chiropractor will never know either at what risk you are since they don't do MRIs to assess soft tissue and disc vulnerability. Sure they do X-rays, but they are bogus marketing ploys, and aren't even done properly if you show them to a real radiologist. If you show an x-ray to 4 different chirporactors they will give you 4 different assessments. Given to 4 different radiologists, you will get one straight answer.
Most of Chiropractics is bullshit marketing ploys, and it works. People fall for it wanting to believe in them! They say, oh no... crack... oh there, perfect... and you believe them and feel better 'cause it cracked and you want to believe it's now straight! They are not real medics though! Go look it up! Most of their schooling is not in anatomy, but in marketing. Look up Chiropractic malpractice to be alerted to the BS hypnosis, mind games they play to gain your confidence and rob you. If it works for you though, Hell, I'm all for it! Whatever floats your boat. Just be aware that if you have a real mechanical, anatomical, or physiological problem, they can really hurt you!
Just think about it... if you have a fense that is crooked and a vine growing through the fense... the fense being yourbones, and the vine being nerves and muscles growing around them, what would happen if you suddenly jolted to fense to straighten it out? Dor sure the vine would break, as did my vine!
Also think about it... if they could snap you "into place" so easily, after 50 years of activity, wouldn't you just be a mass of disorganized bones? How then would a couple jolts be sufficient to "snap you back into proper alignment"?
The dude who did me... said my tingling, numbenss, and waekness after his sharp jolt was just my body finally getting used to being in proper alignment after all these years! He said I just needed to go back to him every day for a week, and I would be all better! Well, in reality, that tingling and numbness as viewed on an MRI, finally was identified as my nerves being squished by herneations and bone spurs, which he likely either caused or exacerbated since they had not bothered me 'till that point. I was told by a neurosurgeon just days later that if I didn't have surgery immediately I would be paralyzed forever... so who to believe? Of course I wanted to believe the chiropractor so I went back to him... but he couldn't fix me. The neurologist said, he has crushed your building, there is no way in Hell, he can pound and twist in you more and uncrush it!
So just be careful! And before you or anyone goes to the Xhiropractor, be sure to look that stuff up on the internet! I am sure you will find it very informative and enlightening!
Tink :)
Rehab is for quitters.

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You do have to be very careful about which chiropractor you go to. There are plenty of quacks out there. Some of my friends have had their backs messed up worse by chiropractors without a clue.

I have been fortunate to have gone to only two chiropractors that were highly recommended by friends who had already been to them and were 100% satisfied. I had a couple of times when I had debilitating pains in my back between the spine and the shoulder blade, as well as in my neck. The chiropractors I went to gradually made the pain go away completely after a series of adjustments and massage treatments.

What you really need to look for are chiropractors who actually have had medical training and can recognize a problem they can't fix. In Alabama, there are only 6 chiropractors statewide who meet this criteria. The two I went to are in that exclusive club. The last one even recommended that I go to the hospital when I complained of numbness down my leg that was caused by a bulging disc pressing on a nerve, which in turn happened when I tried carrying too much firewood in one trip. He didn't want to touch my back in that situation. I ended up having steroid shots every two weeks to shrink that disc and ease the pressure on the nerve. Sure enough, the numbness and pain went away, but I am still another arm-load of firewood away from it happening again.

Do your research before going to a chiropractor.

Blue Skies
Billy
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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That's what Doc Stewart is like. Not only is he a jumper, he's not affraid to tell you its something serious. Just a while back he had a patient that was hurting in a bad way, he felt his back for a couple seconds, decided to X-ray before doing anything, X-rayed and found spider breaks in the spine. He drove his patient to the emergancy room himself.

I'll admit there aren't a lot of guys like that, but he's one and I trust him with anything I've got going on with my back or neck.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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I had the same experience with my chiropractor after a motorcycle accident years ago, the doctors just threw pain killers at me, the chiropractor fixed the problem.

Roy
They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

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Quote

I would be careful about those chiropractors though. Before you go next time look up chiropractic malpractice on the internet.



Yes, do that and then please look up medical malpractice while you are at it.

The straw that broke my neck was a chiropractor. He did that neck torsion thing, and 2 hours later my hands were numb. 2 days later and I was having surgery. I have never been the same since! It was said that he broke my neck. I don't know for sure whether it was he or my parachute openings, but he did definitely seal the deal.
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I am sorry for this unfortunate incident. I do not know all the details, did he takes x-rays, was he aware of this trauma, what type of an exam was done etc etc? I am positive that he did not fracture your neck, it really is impossible to do with an adjustment, but it was probably already fractured and made unstable from the adjustment.


***I looked it up and that torsin thing is so dangerous they can even bust carotid arteries and kill you right there on the table.




Please, if you are going to make comments like this, give an actual example of someone dying from a chiropractic adjustment. As a student this type of ignorance used to infuriate me, but I quickly realized that when you are dealing with someone who is completely uneducated about chiropractic then it is usually a losing battle to try to make them understand it when they already have these unfounded predisposed ideas of what chiropractic is and what it does.



If you show an x-ray to 4 different chirporactors they will give you 4 different assessments. Given to 4 different radiologists, you will get one straight answer.
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And you know this because?? Did you bring x-rays to 4 different chiropractors or know someone who has?



Most of Chiropractics is bullshit marketing ploys, and it works. People fall for it wanting to believe in them! They say, oh no... crack... oh there, perfect... and you believe them and feel better 'cause it cracked and you want to believe it's now straight!
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Wow, thanks for enlightening me!

They are not real medics though!
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Nor do I want to be someone who sits and prescribes drugs to people all day to cover up their symptoms instead of getting to the cause of their problem.

Go look it up! Most of their schooling is not in anatomy, but in marketing.
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I cannot believe you wrote that. When compared to a medical doctor, we have almost identical educations except where they learn pharmacolgy, we learn chiropractic philosophy and techniques.

Just think about it... if you have a fense that is crooked and a vine growing through the fense... the fense being yourbones, and the vine being nerves and muscles growing around them, what would happen if you suddenly jolted to fense to straighten it out? Dor sure the vine would break, as did my vine!
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Great analogy, but you really cannot compare vertebrae to a fence.

bone spurs, which he likely either caused or exacerbated since they had not bothered me 'till that point.
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Bone spurs take a very very long time to form, they are not caused by adjustments, and just because they were not symptomatic, do you really think that your neck was healthy? Symptoms do not dictate health, just ask someone who drops dead of a heart attack, oh wait you can't they are dead. Do you think that their heart was functioning perfectly up until that moment, or do you think there was years of problems that caused that heart to give out? And in most cases, the first "symptom" of a heart trouble is a heart attack.

So just be careful! And before you or anyone goes to the Xhiropractor, be sure to look that stuff up on the internet! I am sure you will find it very informative and enlightening!***

I agree, you should always investigate, regardless of what type of health care provider you chose to go to.

Chiropractic has been here for over a hundred years and has helped millions of people. I am sorry that your experience was a bad one, but you should not go making generalized statements, which most of which are untrue, because of your one experience with one chiropractor. Every single profession has undesirable people it it, I just wish that people not judge this wonderful profession by the actions of these few.

Melissa

"May the best of your past be the worst of your future"

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Wow, what a thorough evaluation!
I will not rebutt all of that, but as per the incidence of catorid artery severing and dying as a result right there on the table, at the time I spoke to a couple sttorneys and was told by a couple they had just finished or were pursuing that very thing! Have you ever heard of that?
I suspect the best thing a chiropractor can do is massage the area to encourage muscles to loosten that are holding bones out of place.
What do you know about pressure point therapy? It sounds like great stuff! How many times do you have to have an area worked on with pressure point attention before the area of pain lets up?
What would you do is the person had numbness and tingling? I went back to the chiropractor at his request for about a week before I had an MRI which revealed the hernations and spur. Two days later I was in surgery, had a foramenotomy which did relieve some of the tingling, but absolutely destroyed my neck! Been on pain pills ever since!
What would you do is someone came to you with 2 badly herneated discs in their neck? How would you know without an MRI? How would you treat them? Do you think it would help?
I agree all medics can do is throw pain pills and butchering at you, which is not good! Less invasive, more mechanical adjustment is much more preferable, as long as the manipulator knows what they are doing and is gentle, not forceful, which could be the final straw that breaks the camel's back!
I went to several chiropractors. Got hooked on them all, but never helped. They do have a way of making you feel like it's gonna work, and in some instances that is better than anything else!
I am sure you are a great and it sounds like a very thorough chiropractor!
Tink :)
Rehab is for quitters.

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After several hard openings with video, I had a great Chiropractor who had me in good shape in a week. He is the one who figured out that I had carpal tunnel syndrome and a torn rotator cuff and sent me to a surgeon. After surgery I had a physical therapist that also practiced Reiki (pressure points) and he was awsome! Look around, ask questions. You may not be 100% again, but there must be someone out there that can give you some improvement.
~"I am not afraid. I was born to do this"~

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Hi Annie,

It seems you have learned some very difficult and painful lessons, and your advice to us all is wonderful.

One thought occurs to me, is that there are lots of ex-jumpers out there who miss the sport, maybe you could start a group or something, gather your experiences and perhaps share the most appropriate ones by teaching about them at different dz's, you all have so much to share.

Perhaps you could try to understand that the bonding of skydivers comes in by the moment...being up in the plane together, talking about the jump, what to do next...it's all very dynamic and unfortunately, by not being able to participate, it may make people uncomfortable, especially if they are superstitious by nature.

It sounds as though you are examining your circumstances very carefully, not to be stopped by them, but to overcome them wisely. That is SO cool. Best of luck and Stay Safe.

Regards,
Tiger
________________________________________
Look, up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's a tiger in the sky!! Throw down some steaks and run for the hills!!!

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Thanks for your support, it's not often that jumpers offer that or care much about jumpers who get hurt and can't jump like they used to.

I used to still go out to the DZ for the cameraderie, but it's weird to go from being the Queen who everyone looks up to to being the injured person on the ground who everyone just walks by and ignores, even the low timers, since you can't go play with them. It hurts psychologically almost more than physically to suddenly lose the social life and cameraderie you conted on for almost 20 years!

I know exactly what I did wrong that got me hurt, so I do have lots to share, as well as all the things I did right that got me far.

Once at the Nationals in Chicago I was talking while packing Carl's parachute, just for fun. Some girl walked by me and told me to shut up and pack, that I had no right to be talking about skydiving 'cause I obviously wasn't a jumper and abviously had no idea what I was talking about since she hadn't seem me jump since I got there. That hurt my feelings enormously! I said I was a skydiver. She responded, if I was any kind of a skydiver someone would be packing my parachute instead of the other way around. That was just mean!

I hate the fair weather friend thing that has over taken skydiving. If anyone gets hurt, knowing how it feels, I am always the first one there with flowers, balloons, and a card. I wish more would do that.

We are all skydivers, once you have tasted flight with your body! We should all recognize each other as such, even if someone gets hurt, which could happen to anyone at any time. That suddenly doesn't void all the time and energy and cameraderie we have put into the sport for so many years!

Thanks for your support!
Tink :)
Rehab is for quitters.

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'3)Don't ever let anyone touch you who is > 45 years old! They should be young enough to have learned all the latest, greatest techniques, and still be green enough to be reading, still interested in, and keeping up to date on all the latest info. Too many older medics learn just a couple things, then sit back on their laurels and become 1 trick ponys. refusing to put in the time or effort to learn new techniques. You must find a medic who is new enough to be still learning, yet experienced enough not to be using you as a learning tool! That is a tricky fine line to decipher. Also, remember that in any given med school class, there were those at the top of the class, and those at the bottom, who just barely got by. Be sure to know where in their class your medic was, and only visit those at the top of the class! '

That is the most stupid thing I've read in a long time. Who do you think teachs the youngsters?:S. A career in surgery is a commitment to life long learning. Yes, surgeons do end up with specialities within their chosen field, but the point is make sure you go to the correct surgeon for your problem. In the UK this is proberbly alot easier thanks to the NHS. But age is not the issue. Working with surgeons all the time I can tell you without a doubt I'd rather have an op done by a Consultant with many years of experience than by a eager young reg or new consultant any day.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

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Well everyone is entitled to their opinion. I went to Med School at UCSF 'till I got disgusted with all the rhote memorization, and all the stupid people in my class who were not interested in learning the material as much as they were in just passing the tests. I got my graduate degree in Physical Chemistry, so I was more into the whys than just the whats. In Med School there was too much material to delve into the whys.

I screwed up by being scared into having an urgent surgery performed on my neck by an old guy who did a technique that was 20 years old, that most do not even do any more because of the advent of better, less invasive approaches with far better outcomes. He even told me he had been performing the same procedure for 20 years! I later found out he was at risk of losing his job being replaced by more modern medics with newer approaches. I was just scared into a surgery to secure his job at the hospital! I have since interviewed many surgeons discussing what to do to fix the problem in my neck.

It is just my observation, that the older guys, say around 60, who are still performing old procedures, while better newer approaches are out there, are just too stuck in their ways to be as dynamic and flexible as the field itself.

My best friend from college and med school continued on and is now one of the top surgeons at his hospital. That is just something he has observed as well in his colleagues.

I am interested in having an artificial disc put into my neck, but if you ask most surgeons about it, they either haven't heard of it or don't even know that it is being done with any success.
Perhaps you have a better, more uniform medical system over there.

I had breathing problems associated with my neck problems and was told I had primary pulmonary hypertension by some Respiratory specialist. He was ready to send my off to have a heart/lung transplant, but after reading countless journal articles about it, I decided that was not a good idea. I tried to discuss everything I had read with the Respiratory dude, to which he just replied, I haven't heard of any of that, where did you learn all of that? I said, "I read all the journal articles I could find on the subject." To that he responded, "How admirable. I can't even get myself to read all of my journal articles, and that is my job!" I left his office and never returned.

It is true that all the youngsters are taught by the old dudes, which sadly often leads to the perpetuation of old info. There is a huge divide between what is possible, what can be done, what is known to be available at research facilities, and what is actually performed. It is sad that there is not more consensus and uniformity in the medical field, and that not everyone is operating on the same, most up to date page, quite literally.

If you go to a guy who specializes in blue door knobs, and has been selling the same blue door knobs for 20 years, he is not about to tell you about the new green door knobs out there that you can get from someone else down the road, for that would be to say that his blue door knobs were insufficient or inadequate, which would be to say that he was not performing up to par, which would be to admit he was not the best medic to go to. Too many medics get too narrow minded and miopic in their chosen specialty, and are not willing to keep up with more modern advances.

It is often the case that a blue door knob salesman either doesn't know about the new green door knobs, or since that is not what he has chosen for his one trick he has been doing for 20 years, he is probably going to try to talk you into bying his blue door knob rather than refer you to a green door knob salesman, for that would in effect be saying his approach was not up to date. (redundant) Few surgeons alter their approaches to keep up with medical advances.

I went to a neurosurgeon at Stanford who wanted to fuse my neck. I said no, that I was interested in either an arthroscopic approach to remove the herneations, or some other alternative. My SO had that performed, and while after my surgery I have been in far worse shape than before, Carl had a more modern approach that was not as invasive as mine, and the surgeon actually removed the herneations. He was up skydiving 2 weeks later, was immediately relieved of his pain, and has not had a single problem since. I asked the guy at Stanford to refer me somewhere else to someone who does arthroscopic procedures on the neck or is looking into the possibility of artificial discs, and he just said "no", he either didn't know of anyone, or just refused to refer me anywhere else. I have encountered that same response from many medics.

I have since seen about 30 surgeons who have all agreed I need a neck fusion at 2 levels. Thankfully I have read up on fusions and have refused to have that done. I am thankful I did, because I have since found several groups of surgeons who's mantra is "refuse to fuse". They say that these new artificial discs will make fusions a thing of the past, and consequently will put a lot of people out of business, and that as a result the biggest problem with the artificial disc will be keeping it a secret. Is that sad or what?

Imagine the poor people who get fusions and lose their mobility and have an increase in chronic pain for the rest of their lives, and will have to have further fusions within 3-4 years as the adjacent discs degenerate from the stress put upon them being adjacent to an inflexible fusion. Had they just gone to some other surgeon who knew of the artificial discs and specialized in that novel advance, they would have been able to restore their mobility, and have their pain eleviated. The people who have had atrificial discs say after years of pain, they have a new lease on life. I suspect however that while the option of having an artificial disc put in instead of a debilitating cervical fusion, still years from now, while some are getting those artificial discs, yet others will still be getting fusions.


It would be great if you knew that where ever you went with a medical issue you would always hear the most up to date info, but that is just not the case. You have to be your own medic and do your own research, so you don't get stuck with some archaic procedure done, which could have been better solved with a more modern approach.

Sorry for writing a book, but I feel very strongly about this issue having already had my life destroyed for the past 4 years by having been scared into having an archaic procedure performed by an older surgeon.

For anyone out there thinking about having a fusion, DON'T! "REFUSE TO FUSE!" Look into the artificial Pro Disc. It is a fabulous alternative, that I suspect will not be widely performed for a long time, but there is a guy at UCLA who specializes in doing that procedure. He says it is a 10 minute procedure, 8 simple steps, no screws or plates! He even says it will soon be an outpatient procedure, and people will be able to return to full activity within a couple weeks. As it is he is putting lots of these artificial discs into the LAPD. They are standing in line for them, since after having a fusion, they are not able to return to the field, and instead get stuck behind a desk for the rest of their carreers, while those with the new artificial "Pro Disc" can return to full active duty within a couple weeks.

References:
Rick DeLamarter, MD., UCLA, Associate Clinical Professor, Orthopedic Surgery

David W. Newell, MD., University of Washington, Seattle, Professor of Neurosurgery

Jens R. Chapman, MD., Professor or Orthopedic & Neurological Surgery

Tink :)
Rehab is for quitters.

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I just started back after breaking my c-4 vertabrea and having it rebuilt with some of my hip bone.Funny when you dont feel up to a long freefall that some ppl give you a bunch of crap about hop and pops lol.My neck always aches but Im not paralyized so i count my blessing i found that working out in the gym really helps.For a while i was paralyized in my leg and arm and found i only had a few true freinds which was sad but thats the way it goes

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Sounds like some of you guys are at the wrong DZ. I've been out of action since late July from a dislocation on my right shoulder. The only negative comment I get when I show up is"NO! you can't go up on a load. Wait 'til it is healed up." Which is probably good advice. :) My question for the friends of surgery out there is: I have a big tear in my triceps which has scarred through to the skin. Anyone know of anyone who does a great job on muscle repair?
Es gibt nur zwei Dinge welche unendlich sind: das Universum und die menschliche Dummheit, wobei ich mir beim Ersten nicht ganz sicher bin..

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Hop and pops aren't that bad...

On a brief visit to a new local dropzone (one that's open during freezing weather up here, there was a few icy puddles in the landing field), I asked some CReW dogs if I could "watch" them play at a distance. Jump out right after them. So I did a few high altitude hop n pops and watched a stack and a side-by-side be built from a distance.

I don't do any CReW at this time (yet anyway), but since I don't freefly yet till next year (so I declined to be part of a freefly group), it was more fun than jumping alone. Just stay your distance and be familiar with matching sink rate...

And, no, the coldness wasn't bad, wearing a sweater under my jumpsuit.

It's something that somebody of my jump numbers is allowed to do, as long as I have basic training on proximity with other canopies and knowing how to keep a requested minimum distance... if you're only able to do hop-and-pops but don't want to do CRW: Be a CRW spectator from the air! Might need minimum license, not sure... Ask instructor.

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Hey Mark, for Canada, you're okay with you "B" CoP on a CReW jump. My home DZ is a regular kennel for the CReW dogs. Btw. those of us in Alberta have been having spectacular weather for jumping. :) Almost midnight and it's +10! (For the benighted Americans, that's 50ºF). Not bad for mid-November in Alberta!
Es gibt nur zwei Dinge welche unendlich sind: das Universum und die menschliche Dummheit, wobei ich mir beim Ersten nicht ganz sicher bin..

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I'd love to, but all in good time... I have a small amount of no-contact CReW experience - I have almost bumped end cells already. (1 feet side-to-side proximity)

I only have basic training from the CSPA guidebooks (PIM's), I still need a good chat and quiz on things like wrap management before I am docked on anybody else under canopy.. And a second hook knife too.

Besides, my canopy at 170 sq ft, I had to front riser or spiral a few times just to maintain altitude with the dogs. So I haven't been able to make an impression yet. I manage to glide-angle match 135's and 150's. But I can't glide-angle match 120's very well unless I front riser...

My focus is RW, but I want to do more non-solo jumps (40% to 50% of my jumps are still solos, usually tracking pratice, I'm working that number down now.)

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