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NeoX

Réunion airport security thought AAD is explosive device and made me put rig in the hold

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riggerrob

***....... security officers involved all agreeing on the decision to put my rig in the hold). I just thought perhaps it's considered less of a risk in the hold because a bomb (that doesn't bring the plane down) would be better to go off in the hold away from the passengers than in the cabin where passengers would surely die regardless of whether the plane is brought down or not.





.............................................................................

Warped logic at best?????
Airplanes are surprisingly fragile. Explosives in the baggage hold can still make them fall out of the sky. Just look at the Air India bombing: 300+ dead. And a Japan-bound flight narrowly missed a similar fate when only baggage-handlers died.
May I suggest adding the (American) FAA letter? Lots of skydivers leave a copy of the letter laying inside their luggage, on top of their rig. The FAA letter can be down-loaded from the USPA website.
How is it warped logic? I'm fully aware that a plane is fragile and can be brought down by a bomb. My logic was based on the decision of the security officers because they allowed me to put the rig in the hold despite suspecting it was a bomb. The only other alternative conclusion was that they are stupid and negligent. This is why I used the word 'perhaps'.
He's doing his Superman thing.

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To clarify: the captain is your last resort after ticket agents, security agents, gate agents, supervisors, flight attendants, et al, deny your request.

Remster is right: once your PIC says no, the game's over regardless of the merits of your request. The captain is the final authority. Ask him/her last. If you do, be polite and be professional. Present your FAA/TSA/manufacturer documents and x-ray card, if necessary.

An attitude of respect and compliance can tip the scales in your favor. (Avoid mention of the pyrotechnic that propels your cutter. Your manufacturer already proved to the authorities it is safe to carry onboard aircraft.)

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Yes, local dialects can be difficult.

For example, when I jumped at Strassbourg (local dialects include different French and German spellings) locals said: "You have a cute accent, but it is 300 years" referring to my Québécois pronunciation.

Ironically, I have difficulty listening to some French-language radio. Radio Canada dialect is clear and easy to understand, but some of the "popular" talk shows are so full of "filler words" (en tous cas, en ce moment, en autre mots, etc.) that my ears quickly tire and I switch channels.
OTOH Swiss-French dialects are easier to understand because they clearly enunciate every syllable.

As for spelling ..... written French contains almost as many silent letters as English "@&$!.
Spanish is easy to read in comparison!
Hah!
Hah!

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Cypress and Vigil websites have really visible links to air travel documentation you should be taking with you while flying on commercial airlines with AAD. If you have ever visited their websites its hard to miss...

So the police officers didnt know what is AAD and how it looks like on the xray scanner and you didnt know that a specific documentation exists and you must have it with you...in this situation I dont think that the police officers are the incompetent ones (as you directly calling them in your first post).

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I would expect people who work security at an international airport to speak one language other then their native language, unless its some really 3rd world country or when they are french, then all bets are off...
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nikaru

Cypress and Vigil websites have really visible links to air travel documentation you should be taking with you while flying on commercial airlines with AAD. If you have ever visited their websites its hard to miss...

So the police officers didnt know what is AAD and how it looks like on the xray scanner and you didnt know that a specific documentation exists and you must have it with you...in this situation I dont think that the police officers are the incompetent ones (as you directly calling them in your first post).


Your facetious method of saying I am incompetent is misguided and opinionated. You contradicted yourself insofar as you said, "If you have ever visited their websites its hard to miss". What if I haven't? It's not a requirement to trawl the website of the manufacturer of everything I buy, nor is it expected. The issue of the manual has already been discussed above.

You're incompetent.
He's doing his Superman thing.

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Calm down. Have you seen where Reunion Island is on a map ? When you are living on a such small island located in the Southern hemisphere of the Indian Ocean, well, you cannot expect the locals to be perfectly current with air trafic rules. Even in Canada, at Edmonton Alberta few years ago, the security supervisor wasn't aware of such rules for AAD. I showed her the TSA form explaining that AADs can be brought in a cabin luggage. She asked me if she could keep that form which I agreed. She was very thankful.

OTOH, French have been hit quite often and still are by bombing or other terrorists acts. You cannot blame them to be a bit touchy regarding "strange objects" seen on an parachute equipment.
Have your TSA form with you about AADs being taken in a cabin luggage.

This year at Orlando Florida Airport, when I was at the security check with my parachute equipment, the girl told me that they had seen a lot of parachutes equipments in the past few weeks (due to the PIA symposium held in Daytona Beach). Those security people were getting used to see AADs on their screen. But you cannot compare Orlando airport to the Reunion island one.

Two weeks after 2001 September 11, I was passing the border between Quebec and Vermont USA with my parachute equipment. I was going jumping at West Addison a DZ South of Burlington. First the US custom officer asked if there was a pilot in the car. I am a pilot. I answered I was. They kept us for a good half an hour at the office while other custom agents where checking the car. A very clever Officer at the office asked me questions about log book, reserve, parachute equipement. They allowed me to continue and I thanked them a lot saying I was understanding.
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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I hear lots of stories about jumpers getting upset at airport security when they attempt to take there rigs on as hand luggage. Many of them take there rig and walk around with it on and almost bring attention to the fact they are a skydiver with a parachute and cause more problems for themselves. A bit of advice put it in a bag and simply be polite and answer any questions you may be asked. Having any supporting documents readily to hand.

Yes, if they pull it out they are going to probably swab it for explosives. Being polite and courteous and answer any questions. Having appropriate supporting documentation may help but in the end if they are not happy they could ask you to check it or perhaps ask you to open it for further examination. Asking to speak to Pilot is likely to get a negative response as well.

Hey when I was going to a riggers exam and I had a parachute and my tools - The parachute they had no problems with and out of all my tools the only problem they had was with a wrench. Because it exceeded the 9 inch rule, I could not take on as carry on. I could stand there and argue with them (what do you think I'm going to do - undo some bolts !!!) or could simply say, OK and go check my stuff.

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Good point. Agreed that anywhere that is used to seeing AADs on their screen are more likely to let it through. In fact, Réunion itself has two airports. The one flew out of Réunion from was Saint-Denis which was due to a flight change - it was originally Saint-Pierre which is where the DZ is and is on the complete opposite side of the island. So, I imagine I'll have no difficulty taking my rig through Saint-Pierre in future (the airport I would normally use) because the DZ is literally on the airport and the DZ aircraft shares the runway with the commercial aircraft.

I don't agree that security staff in Réunion wouldn't be current with air traffic rules, though. The island has two airports and is constantly receiving tourists from all over the world. Réunion is also technically France and part of the EU. In fact, it was just like being in Europe being there but with tropical weather.

rastapara

I would expect people who work security at an international airport to speak one language other then their native language, unless its some really 3rd world country or when they are french, then all bets are off...


:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D Funny!
He's doing his Superman thing.

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Agreed on this. When you parade around showing off your rig there is a good chance it will get a security guys back up, they are still human and can cop an attitude.

If I do carry mine on it is in a carry on and 9/10 it goes through the x-ray without a word being said.
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Ok, sounds like this was more of a post looking for sympathy than advice, but here's some advice:

1. Do a search on here beforehand (yeah, too late now!)
2. Don't bring attention to the fact that it's a parachute system
3. Be exceedingly polite and patient with the security officers (get to the airport a bit earlier to accommodate this), have your documentation ready, and if that doesn't work, and they insist on popping the reserve, ask for a supervisor and start over. Calmly.
4. Bring a stuff-sack for it at the very least - security is likely going to want it alone going through the x-ray, and you don't want to have your rig in the overhead compartment with random people shoving their dirty, oversized bags and stinky foods up there. Airplanes these days are a small step away from those rickety buses in the Andes with people bringing chickens to market crammed around you.
5. RTFM

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Wasn't looking for sympathy from strangers on the Internet. No one died. Just want advice. Thanks for giving.

Agreed on the bag, which is why I paid for the matching bag when I purchased my Javelin rig.

To all - I think this has been talked to death now - no need for repeating posts. I will carry X-ray Card and manual with me in future (already was doing the latter). And I will avoid Saint-Denis in future where possible (when flying out of Réunion).

Thanks.
He's doing his Superman thing.

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rastapara

I would expect people who work security at an international airport to speak one language other then their native language, unless its some really 3rd world English speaking country or when they are french, then all bets are off...



Fixed it for you.

Now I'll happily sit back with my empty can of vitriol and stare into the flames...

edit: layout
"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

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Some airports (or airlines) never allow parachutes (with or without AAD) on board as carry-on luggage.
For ex. Gerona in Spain and they see a lot of skydivers traveling from and to Empuria Brava.

Some passengers sitting next to you in the airplane are afraid that you will jump out of the plane at 10.000 m after sabotaging it :S

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Quote

I wasn't aware of the documents till after the trip



And whose fault is that?

Quote

It's a generally-accepted rule that anyone working in the travel industry should speak English as this is the global lingua franca.



French people should speak english because it's the lingua franca?

Hehehehehe:ph34r:
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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jakee

Quote

I wasn't aware of the documents till after the trip



And whose fault is that?

Don't know. Don't care. Unlike you, I don't seek to assign blame for everything.

jakee

Quote

It's a generally-accepted rule that anyone working in the travel industry should speak English as this is the global lingua franca.



French people should speak english because it's the lingua franca?

Hehehehehe:ph34r:

No. But that is an absurd thing for you to suggest. And quite discriminatory of you to target only the French.
He's doing his Superman thing.

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if your jump numbers are correct, I would hazard a guess that you in fact have NO RIGHT to take your rig on as hand luggage, because it will be above the maximum weight restriction for cabin luggage. Which in most case (not all) is 7-8kg.
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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Squeak

if you jump numbers are correct, I would hazard a guess that you in fact have NO RIGHT to take your rig on as hand luggage, because it will be above the maximum weight restriction for cabin luggage. Whis is most case (not all) is 7-8kg.


Incorrect and off-topic.
He's doing his Superman thing.

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NeoX

***if you jump numbers are correct, I would hazard a guess that you in fact have NO RIGHT to take your rig on as hand luggage, because it will be above the maximum weight restriction for cabin luggage. Whis is most case (not all) is 7-8kg.


Incorrect and off-topic.it's not off topic, that was in reference to YOUR RIGHT as you put it to take anything not on the exclusion list.
Quote

On my right to take my rig as hand luggage, I find it interesting that I "have no right" to do so. I thought that I had the right to take on any hand luggage I wanted that wasn't in the list of disallowed items.





and how is it incorrect?
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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Squeak

******if you jump numbers are correct, I would hazard a guess that you in fact have NO RIGHT to take your rig on as hand luggage, because it will be above the maximum weight restriction for cabin luggage. Whis is most case (not all) is 7-8kg.


Incorrect and off-topic.it's not off topic, that was in reference to YOUR RIGHT as you put it to take anything not on the exclusion list.
and how is it incorrect?
It's off-topic because it's incorrect so is out of scope of this discussion. And you already answered why it's incorrect yourself. I'm sorry, but I don't have time to spoonfeed you. Please discuss the instant issue or feel free to use a different part of the forum. Thank you.
He's doing his Superman thing.

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NeoX

*********if you jump numbers are correct, I would hazard a guess that you in fact have NO RIGHT to take your rig on as hand luggage, because it will be above the maximum weight restriction for cabin luggage. Whis is most case (not all) is 7-8kg.


Incorrect and off-topic.it's not off topic, that was in reference to YOUR RIGHT as you put it to take anything not on the exclusion list.
and how is it incorrect?
It's off-topic because it's incorrect so is out of scope of this discussion. And you already answered why it's incorrect yourself. I'm sorry, but I don't have time to spoonfeed you. Please discuss the instant issue or feel free to use a different part of the forum. Thank you.


OH ok I can see why it was disallowed now :)
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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Squeak

************if you jump numbers are correct, I would hazard a guess that you in fact have NO RIGHT to take your rig on as hand luggage, because it will be above the maximum weight restriction for cabin luggage. Whis is most case (not all) is 7-8kg.


Incorrect and off-topic.it's not off topic, that was in reference to YOUR RIGHT as you put it to take anything not on the exclusion list.
and how is it incorrect?
It's off-topic because it's incorrect so is out of scope of this discussion. And you already answered why it's incorrect yourself. I'm sorry, but I don't have time to spoonfeed you. Please discuss the instant issue or feel free to use a different part of the forum. Thank you.


OH ok I can see why it was disallowed now :)Giving veiled insults because you were wrong and have been called on it demonstrates insecurity. I have been nothing but polite and to the point as I want nothing from this discussion other than advice as it is an important matter for me. I don't want an Internet argument, so please take your offensive/sarcastic attitude and superiority complex elsewhere.
He's doing his Superman thing.

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