Thoughts on LPV reserves?

[PXSS 0]

Hey guys, I'm looking into purchasing my first rig and was thinking of getting a low pack volume reserve so I can get the largest reserve I can into a container that'll last me a couple of years.

All of the threads I've read on LPV reserves are pretty old and outdated so now that the Smart LPV and Optimum have been out a while, does anyone have any input on them? How small do they pack? I'm specifically looking at something in the 190-170 range. How do they fly in comparison to other reserves? I've asked around but nobody I've talked to has actually flown either of these.

Any input is appreciated!

[mxk 1]

For sizing information, go to the container manufacturer (e.g. Vector, Sun Path). PD has the flight characteristics document for the Optimum. I'm not sure if Aerodyne provides the same level of detail for the Smart, but you can find lots of information here by searching. You can demo both of these reserves as your main. It's about $100 for two weekends.

Compared to PDR, the Optimum is known to have a longer snivel. Keep that in mind when deciding where your AAD should fire. There have been cases of AAD fires where the reserve did not inflate in time, so it's another factor to consider.

[sundevil777 93]

Quote

How do they fly in comparison to other reserves?

Aerodyne ads do not say that the design of the reserve changes at all between the normal smart and the smartlpv - just the material used. Icarus ads seem to also say that only the material is different than their normal material reserve.

The optimum is clearly said to be a new design compared to the regular PD reserve.

Of those choices it really is just the Optimum that is different (therefore should fly different) than the standard reserve from that mfg.

The speed is supposed to be a low pack volume reserve.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[lyosha 46]

Well, if you did your searching, you'd come across this post made recently:

voilsb

I've packed and jumped an Optimum/160, Nano/160, and Speed 2000/190, all in a reserve tray built for a PD 143.

All packed easier than the PD 143 did, in the same container, both with and without an AAD. All 4 packed within 2lb of the same pull force.

Nano had the best flare, straight in and with front risers, but had very fast reserve-like openings.

Optimum had an excellent flare with a front riser approach, and a regular flare straight in. Also had the softest openings.

Speed had the steepest glide slope, but consequently had an excellent flare straight in. Brakes were set too short, so I experienced bucking on front risers.

Nano and Optimum had similar altitude loss in turns. Speed lost the most altitude in turns.

I followed up with the guy via PM and he said his next reserve will be a Nano.

As far as Smart reserves go I haven't spoken to anyone that really likes them better than PD or Icarus reserves, so take from that what you will.

[DougH 270]

lyosha

As far as Smart reserves go I haven't spoken to anyone that really likes them better than PD or Icarus reserves, so take from that what you will.

Likes them better? I like them a lot. I have rides on 175-110 smarts, they all opened great, flew great, flared great.

They are modern and on par with PDR. I don't have a PDR in my rigs, they happen to be Smarts.

I think you will find it isn't that most people don't have a preference with more modern reserves, they have a more narrow experience with a certain type because it was popular.

If you want a real strong opinion about a reserve ask a Dual Hawk tandem instructor about the Master 425!!!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[lyosha 46]

My experience is there are some very animated riggers out there that think that the PDR is the golden standard for reserves, some of who have the opinion that a PDR is better reinforced than a Smart. I haven't fondled any reserves myself, so I have to go with word of mouth :-/

Personally, I'm probably getting a Nano in my next rig. voilsb conducted the type of test that I would conduct to figure out which low bulk reserve to get and that's what he came up with.

[PXSS 0]

Thanks for the input guys! I had not looked into the nano. I will ask more around the DZ and maybe take a trip down to Perris to check out the demo program.

[degeneration 5]

Remember to check the max exit weight recommendations for the reserve. If I recall correctly, the Nano has a low recommended max exit weight, compared to the likes of the Smart and Optimum.

The whole loading your reserve high is another discussion, but if you are planning on getting one of the smaller reserves, you may be past the weight limits (the recommended ones I believe) for the Nano...

Sky Switches - Affordable stills camera tongue switches and conversion adaptors, supporting various brands of camera (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic).

[riggerrob 558]

..........

If you want a real strong opinion about a reserve ask a Dual Hawk tandem instructor about the Master 425!!!

.............................................................

Warning!
Tangent!
Whadda ya mean?
I had a thousand jumps on F-111 tandem mains (Galaxy 400, PD 360 and 421, Pioneer Hi-Lifter 370, Strong 425 and 520) before the SET400 was invented. They opened like freight-trains! After tearing holes in 20 first-generation tandem mains, I quit counting.
I also have survived a couple of tandem-terminal
Openings on Strong 425 reserves. During my last 425 opening, I strained a muscle in my neck and it never completely healed.

...... which reminds me to stretch my neck and my shoulders and my spine and my knees and my ankles and wonder how I grew this old doing so many silly things as a young man?????

Finally .... on the subject of tandem reserves .... after watching the latest video tapes of test drops on Strong 425 reserves and their new reserve (based on the SET 366), I would only buy the new reserve, because it opens more like a PD Optima ... earlier start of inflation, but opening shock is spread over the same 3 seconds, so the human body experiences a more gradual deceleration.

[DougH 270]

I love skydiving like a prime time live broadcast show, i.e. with a tape delay.

Toggle down... wait wait wait wait turn.
Flare... wait wait wait wait fuck FUCK flare FLARE

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[PXSS 0]

Thanks for the heads up! I'll be good on the max loading for a while. My exit weight is 170 tops (I weigh roughly 140). This is going to be my first rig and I want a container that'll allow me to downsize in the future so I'm looking at LPV Reserves and a Pulse as my first set of canopies.

[lyosha 46]

255 lbs for half the sizes. Lower than 300 lbs for Optimum, but hardly "low".

[degeneration 5]

lyosha

255 lbs for half the sizes. Lower than 300 lbs for Optimum, but hardly "low".

Not knowing what size the OP would be wanting I was mainly referring to the smaller end of the scale for the nano, where for example the Max allowed weight on a 126 is 167lbs, compared to 254lbs for an optimum, and 220lbs for the smart lpv in the 120 and 135 sizes.

Sky Switches - Affordable stills camera tongue switches and conversion adaptors, supporting various brands of camera (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic).

[hackish 8]

I get a little annoyed when people claim product XYZ opens slower because it feels softer or that it might not open in time if you have an AAD fire. Gauging opening speed with your butt is like using your eyeballs as an altimeter.

The TSO process sets out a number of tests to ensure the reserve canopy meets all the criteria. If your reserve doesn't open on an AAD fire, then the problem is more likely to be the packing, rig compatibility or the firing altitude than the reserve design that had to be tested and instrumented very scientifically to ensure it passes the tests for its TSO.

Talk to the manufacturer of the rig to ensure the LPV reserve you're considering is a compatible and recommended fit.

-Michael

[riggerrob 558]

........

Talk to the manufacturer of the rig to ensure the LPV reserve you're considering is a compatible and recommended fit.

-Michael

...................................................................

Good point!
Over-stuffed reserve containers take longer to close ...... sometimes they take longer to open .....

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Here's my opinion: If you want to keep your current container, but feel the need/desire to upsize, then go ahead and get that bigger LPV reserve. If, on the other hand, you are putting together a new rig, I'd pass on the LPV, particularly if you live in the desert or have a ton of piney woods around your DZ. None of the LPV reserves hold up well to snags and dirt.

I've got a buddy that just got an OP 106 so he could order the tiniest container possible; I shook my head and walked away. FWIW: I have PR 106's in both of my personal rigs, but I'd MUCH rather have OP 126's in them now that I'm 52 years old....... I've landed the PR 106's fine and I've also landed Tempo 120's fine.

[PXSS 0]

Thanks a lot for the input!
My home DZ is Taft so lots of dirt. I might stay away from LPVs for that reason. I am getting a new rig together but wanted to be able to use the container for as long as possible with the possibility of downsizing at least twice since I'm just starting out.

[hackish 8]

Most people with 30 jumps do not keep a rig for more than a year before downsizing and getting a smaller rig. It's worthwhile to speak to local instructors and get a feel for a longterm canopy sizing goal.

Another thing to consider is that newer designs typically have better openings and better flight/landing characteristics. Old designs like the PDR had a lot of R&D go into them which is why they've stood the test of time but in 25+ years the engineers did learn a trick or two.

-Michael

[PXSS 0]

I haven't talked to my instructors abut downsizing yet since I'm not ready to downsize from the 200 I'm currently jumping. My train of thought was getting a Pulse 190 and Optimum 176 into a Wings W11 (made for a PD main 150-170 and PDR 160) and downsizing accordingly until I hit a 150 main and 160 reserve loaded just over a 1.1. For me it's all about the freefall, the canopy ride is just a way to get down safely! I've heard way too many stories of broken backs and legs and am in no hurry to get there...

But if LPVs dont like dirt, I might not actually do this since Taft is pretty much the desert...

[hackish 8]

My opinion is that if you buy a tight fitting container you'll get frustrated with learning to pack. Rigs are not like cars, they don't depreciate by 30% every year. Buy a well used rig to get over the big learning curve as you transition from novice to intermediate jumper.

When you resell the rig expect to lose a couple of dollars per jump in depreciation. At that point you'll be ready to buy custom new and all that so you can enjoy the next 500+ jumps without suffering the compromises you had to make earlier.

Again, once you've passed the novice level and are standing up all your landings I don't think dirt and reserves are a concern. If it bothers you call PD and ask. They see and inspect more reserves than any of us.

-Michael

[lyosha 46]

PXSS

I haven't talked to my instructors abut downsizing yet since I'm not ready to downsize from the 200 I'm currently jumping. My train of thought was getting a Pulse 190 and Optimum 176 into a Wings W11 (made for a PD main 150-170 and PDR 160) and downsizing accordingly until I hit a 150 main and 160 reserve loaded just over a 1.1. For me it's all about the freefall, the canopy ride is just a way to get down safely! I've heard way too many stories of broken backs and legs and am in no hurry to get there...

But if LPVs dont like dirt, I might not actually do this since Taft is pretty much the desert...

Demo the Pulse before you try and go this route.

I had a similar thought process for my first gear, but ultimately got a wings a size larger to stick a sabre2 into.

Containers depreciate pretty handily, but it's worth it for a canopy I like much more.

Also for a first container don't be afraid to get an old PDR. Spend the savings on jumps.

[PXSS 0]

lyosha

Demo the Pulse before you try and go this route.

I had a similar thought process for my first gear, but ultimately got a wings a size larger to stick a sabre2 into.

Containers depreciate pretty handily, but it's worth it for a canopy I like much more.

Also for a first container don't be afraid to get an old PDR. Spend the savings on jumps.

Thanks for the heads up, I will be heading down to Perris to demo canopies either this weekend or next.