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jacketsdb23

Check your pins before every jump!

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We had a two out situation that was very scary this weekend. Jumper deployed main above 3,000' and the force of the main opening was enough to pop the reserve pin. We are speculating the reserve pin was primed and ready to go.

Reserve wrapped around the jumpers right side main risers and was not inflated (freebag did leave). When jumper tried to put the reserve between his legs, it inflated, causing a stable biplane with a small turn.

Jumper was a recent AFF student and has about 35 total jumps. Handled himself well and landed off without injury. He admitted to not checking his pins before the jump and apparently nobody else did either.

I was surprised to learn after the incident that it is somewhat common for people to not check their pins before every jump. I don't usually like people touching my gear in the plane, but I'm anal about checking both pins and to make sure the AAD is on before I gear up on every skydive.

Us more experienced jumpers need to lead by example by checking our pins before every jump, and offering to give a complete gear check to the new guys...I usually do and failed to on this jump, my only non working AFF jump of the day.

Stay safeish out there!
Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

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Pin check for free-fall students include:
1 - "pre-flight" before you put the gear on
2 - "ramp check" after the last rehearsal and just before you board the plane
3 - "last chance check" after everyone is on their knees (helmets and goggles on) and ready to open the door.

It is common practice to ask another jumper to check your pins a couple of minutes before the door opens.
Don't touch other people's gear unless they ask.
If they ask you to check gear you are not familiar with, politely decline.

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Hi Rob, I can see that you consider that checking the pin is part of the safety. As I was mentioning in another post, the cause of a pin check is that they can move after putting the rig on, in the airplane for instance especially when the main closing loop has not enough tension. This is why the pin set up and orientation has an importance. I am back from a boogie at Quebec City (Atmosphair) and I can tell you that I didn't see a single main pin with the concave side down. Check with packers, they have seen thousands of those.:)

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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normiss

I do check mine every jump.
Don't touch my gear.
;)




I kinda see this as a shortsighted solution but then I was brought up in the BPA system where getting gear checked is mandatory and was normal in my jumping career.

As I see it, checking your own gear has 2 sides to it.

Pro: You know nobody has messed up your gear while they were doing a check.

Con: You're not infallible. You may forget a check (even if you're sure you won't) or may miss something (even if you're sure you don't).


With someone else giving your gear a look over after you've done it, you mitigate the risk of the con above and can minimize the impact on the pro by proper training and constant repetition of gear checks.

I used to routinely ask newly licensed jumpers to check my gear, and would then get another check by a more experienced jumper who I trusted before I got on the plane. This has the dual benefit of teaching the beginner about gear, and giving them lots of confidence without endangering me. After a few dozen flight line checks they can be as good at it as anyone with a thousand jumps.

In effect you're teaching everyone to be as diligent about gear as you are.

That said, with the change of culture has to be the education of jumpers not to mess with stuff they don't understand, and a understanding that 'Gear Check' isn't synonymous with 'pull on everything'.
I used to refrain from doing checks on CRW jumpers because of all the funky shit they had going on - for specialist disciplines like that or WS I can see how it's best kept in the family, but for general jumping I think gear checks are a great thing if they're limited to a visual inspection of the 3 ring & harness routing, and then opening the main pin cover and visually inspecting the main pin seating & orientation and bridle routing, and then visually inspecting the reserve pin before closing the flaps back up.

At no point in a gear check performed by someone else would I expect any physical contact to be made with the pins, bridle or PC unless they identified a problem and told me first.




My flightline check for someone else used to go like this - front to back, bottom to top to bottom:
(Do it the same way everytime...)

1) Check legstraps. Are they twisted? Is the excess stowed? Any obvious issue with hardware routing. (no contact)

2) Check Cutaway and Reserve Handle position & seating - not tucked under, velcro is all done up. (no contact)

3) Check chest strap routing. (no contact)

4) Check 3 ring setup. (no contact unless you can't see the cable going through the white loop, and then ask if they want it checked)

5) Ask - AAD turned on and zeroed? (no contact)

6) Check reserve pin seating. (Open reserve flap. No contact on the pin. Close reserve flap)

7) Check main pin orientation (pointing up) and seating. (Open main flap. No contact with main pin unless you see an issue).

8) Check bridle routing - any obvious error that would lead to a PC in tow? (Close main flap.)

9) Check PC is all the way in. (no contact)

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jacketsdb23

We had a two out situation that was very scary this weekend. Jumper deployed main above 3,000' and the force of the main opening was enough to pop the reserve pin. We are speculating the reserve pin was primed and ready to go.

Reserve wrapped around the jumpers right side main risers and was not inflated (freebag did leave). When jumper tried to put the reserve between his legs, it inflated, causing a stable biplane with a small turn.

Jumper was a recent AFF student and has about 35 total jumps. Handled himself well and landed off without injury. He admitted to not checking his pins before the jump and apparently nobody else did either.

I was surprised to learn after the incident that it is somewhat common for people to not check their pins before every jump. I don't usually like people touching my gear in the plane, but I'm anal about checking both pins and to make sure the AAD is on before I gear up on every skydive.

Us more experienced jumpers need to lead by example by checking our pins before every jump, and offering to give a complete gear check to the new guys...I usually do and failed to on this jump, my only non working AFF jump of the day.

Stay safeish out there!




I won't speculate on your speculation about the cause of the reserve deployment but its' great to hear the noob in the saddle did his job well.

Not sure of your experiences but I have never heard that it's "somewhat common" for jumpers not to check their pins - and every other component of their gear - before donning it for a jump.

Where I jump the experienced jumpers do lead by example. I am a load organizer at a major U.S. DZ (Skydive Spaceland) and insist that my groups get a gear check from another jumper before boarding the aircraft as a secondary inspection to the individual's (assumed) pre-donning inspection.

These inspections do occasionally catch a gear gig, and interestingly my folks notice gear gigs on people who aren't in our groups through simple observation more often than they do on people with our groups. Seems giving gear checks puts people in the mode to casually glance at everyone's gear and it has paid off. My guys have caught stuff like dislodged handles, mis-routed chest straps, and unsecured pin flaps and riser covers just by having them jump out into their vision.

As for people who refuse gear checks, understand this: if you have a premature deployment near the door, you may bring down the entire load. Thanks for that.

Get a gear check.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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Working and jumping at major dz's has changed my approach in a few ways.
We tend to have a number of jumpers I don't always know, meaning I also don't know their understanding and knowledge of gear in general, or various brands of gear specifically.
I've seen enough problems with gear checks done my the unknowing to understand the gear check was not only worthless, but possible dangerous.
I tend to make fun jumps with people I DO know and do welcome gear checks from those that do, but not those that do not.

That was my thoughts on this topic.

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normiss

Working and jumping at major dz's has changed my approach in a few ways.
We tend to have a number of jumpers I don't always know, meaning I also don't know their understanding and knowledge of gear in general, or various brands of gear specifically.
I've seen enough problems with gear checks done my the unknowing to understand the gear check was not only worthless, but possible dangerous.
I tend to make fun jumps with people I DO know and do welcome gear checks from those that do, but not those that do not.

That was my thoughts on this topic.



All banter aside, and from one skydiver to another, would YOU give me a proper gear check if i asked politely, despite how much you despise me? :)

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All banter aside, and from one skydiver to another, would YOU give me a proper gear check if i asked politely, despite how much you despise me?



I know you weren`t asking me, but of course. I`m not sure anyone really despises your forum alter ego, but possibly they do. The reality is that in the real world where your identity is known, you are probably a totally different person. You're merely one of the people who like to shoot your mouth off using anonymity because you are too gutless to express your opinion openly. On the DZ you're just another jumper and we all look after each other.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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And just to follow up on this....several years ago...one newbie was checking another newbie and pulled his pin OUT at 7,000'. Luckily we had a pull up cord and I closed it back up for him. Closing a rig on a plane while backwards and looking from the top down was interesting to say the least.

Pin checks on the plane are good...if done correctly and carefully. I'm also much more inclined to not let anyone touch my rig after I board the plane. :)

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

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I always do three handle checks on the plane. 1st is at 1000 when the belts come off. 2nd is done sometime between 1000 and jump run. 3rd is done beginning of jump run when everyone is getting there helmets on etc.

About a month ago we were going up in a CASA with the ramp up and the door up (It was a really hot day). I was in the last seat next to the ramp on the right side of the aircraft because we had a lot of tandems on that load. I had done two of my checks and hadn't moved at all. We had turned onto jump run and people were starting to get ready, as I stood up I went for my hacky to do my 3rd check and felt bridal! Told my bud (thanks Jordan) something was wrong and felt him push me against the wall of the plane and yell to get the door closed. Didn't take half a second to realize what was going on. Since we had a lot of TM's on that load and some very veteran camera fliers it was handled perfectly by everyone. (Thanks Mel!)

Pin checks and handle checks save lives no matter how many jumps you have. I was always very aware when I had new jumpers or tandems behind me. I always made sure I did a pin check and multiple handle checks during the ride up. I've even turned around when a tandem student was bumping my rig to explain why they needed to be a bit more careful. Never forget the basics, it'll bite you when you do.
Trail mix? Oh, you mean M&M's with obstacles.

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chuckakers

******I most certainly would.
B|

I do not despise you.
:)



Your response seriously put a smile on my face and made my day that much better.
:)
I would do the same! I love you man!! :)
Might wanna rethink that one after seeing this. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfbjUmG8zGk

LOL! Ok, Tarantino did have a point on that...

Ok so to clarify, I love Normiss as in a bromance kind of way like Tango and Cash, Joules Winfield and Vincent Vega, Murtaugh and Riggs, Kirk and Spock, Butch and Sundance, or Han and Chewwie.

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jacketsdb23

And just to follow up on this....several years ago...one newbie was checking another newbie and pulled his pin OUT at 7,000'.




Gear checks on the plane are a really bad idea in my opinion. Too little room, and too much squirming around. It's too easy to undo the good work you've done earlier.

Get a proper check before you get on board, and then check your handles and PC before the door opens.

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yoink

***And just to follow up on this....several years ago...one newbie was checking another newbie and pulled his pin OUT at 7,000'.




Gear checks on the plane are a really bad idea in my opinion. Too little room, and too much squirming around. It's too easy to undo the good work you've done earlier.

Get a proper check before you get on board, and then check your handles and PC before the door opens.

........................................................................

I half agree with your logic.

You are only checking after something is likely to get dislodged.

How often you check depends upon how tight the airplane is.
If you are in a roomy airplane (e.g. Skyvan) - and squirming around a lot - then pin checks before the door opens are wise.
OTOH if you are in a cramped airplane (e.g. piston-pounding Cessna) the best recipe is to sit down and shut up until the door opens. The less you squirm around, the less likely you are to knock a pin loose.

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Im interested in those people who's response is to sit still and not move. How do you feel about me who has a student (maybe up to 12) with me and i HAVE to move to check them out. Do you suddenly disagree with my moving, or do you accept it because it has to be done, and has your opinion changed?
If people need to move around in the aircraft then do it slowly and methodically, if you see something wrong then point it out. Personally if i see your hackey/pud/toggle hanging out first thing ill do is put it back in the BOC, 9 times out of 10 people won't feel you do it. Then i'll tell them, and then get them to check it and put there hand on it. I think it saves time in the long run, cue lots of finger pointing and shouting and "WHAAAAAAT". People may not agree but its worked for me over the last couple of years, and I've had no complaints on either side of the pond.
At long last the light at the end of the tunell isnt an on coming train!!!

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The rules are slightly different for instructors. Instructors are still expected to lead by example, keeping movement to the minimum needed to do their job (e.g.check students' pins BEFORE) opening the door.
If your boss expects you to corrall a dozen students at a time, I hope that he gives you a large enough airplane, with as few snag points as possible.
I also expect you to pat your own main pilot chute and pin cover before you open the door.

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I check my main pin myself if I feel I've been bumped in the airplane. Just reach back and feel under my main flap. Reserve I check as I'm putting gear on, and then I don't let anybody touch my reserve flap. Even coaching students that are supposed to learn to perform gear checks, I will only have them look at my main.

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With my Racer 2K3, I've got the reserve flap against my back. I check the pins before I put it on, then there's nothing anybody can do after that. Has anybody heard of the Racer reserve pins dislodging, even though they're protected back there? Do you think it's a safer place for them?

I'd welcome a main pin check, though the Racer flap is different from most others and it's a pretty tight fit. People always take forever to figure out how to close it back up, which makes me nervous. I check myself before I put it on, every time.

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

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What a coincidence, was randomly browsing DZ.com and found this, I was the n00b in question, didn't know jacketsdb23 had posted it here, he was my main instructor on CAT A, thanks for teaching me well :).

About 70 jumps later, there hasn't been a single one I haven't checked my reserve pin before jumping, on that day, I had only checked it on the first jump, bad idea :/.

The situation was pretty fucked up with the main reserve entanglement. I was very glad that I had reviewed the emergency procedures of a two out on the night before on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4x1ptlBF1Q, besides checking your pin, always be prepared to deal with any sh*t.

I found this on reddit a few weeks later, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fienNK0DtUA, where the guy had a very similar situation as me, decided to cut away instead and spiraled to the ground, they named him miracle mike for surviving. In his case, they concluded it was due to a misrouted RSL, wondering if that could be the case on my situation as well.

By the way, here is a slow motion video of my pilot chute popping out with the main deployment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsaMtbbuZVA

Blue skies

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