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medic0079

Para-commander jumping questions.

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So I have an opportunity to jump an old military rig with paracommander/round reserve. having never jumped a round I was a little concerned about using the cutaway systems. specifically would it be better to cutaway and deploy reserve or deploy reserve then cutaway. I have heard stories about singe riser release problems. obviously I will be talking with someone about the jump before it happens but I was interested in any tips/pearls the "old timers" have about these systems.

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Hi 0079,

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paracommander/round reserve



I would recommend cutting away then deploying the reserve.

Just make sure the rig has 1 1/2 shots. Practice with them a few times to make sure that you know the sequence of opening & pulling on them.

Look for an old, grey-bearded, master rigger on your dropzone to show you how. Just for you, Rob. :P

Jerry Baumchen

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Yeah, you will want a mentor! I'm just a relative newbie at PC jumps (jumping them since 2006 occasionally) and will just do a quick reply.

Nobody deploys the reserve and then chops. Chop and deploy reserve like normal. Well, dearch, legs forward, cover your Capewells, and all that -- I assume you'll have some info sources on proper emergency procedures.

Make sure the Capewells are in good working order. There are some fiddly details with them for compatibility of different parts, but generally if they operate smoothly they're ok, and if the rig and risers were jumped together in the past they should be ok if nothing is rusted up!

Just deploying a reserve without chopping was something done in the early days with simpler rounds but not generally with ParaCommanders. With their 20+ slots, a mal that closes off part of the canopy can spin really fast, making a barberpoling of the reserve more possible despite 'throwing into the spin'. Now I knew a local school that trained advanced students on ParaCommanders and belly mounts (through the 1980s!) and didn't have them learn to cut away, but I got the impression that that wasn't normal.

If the rig is set up to not cutaway a mal, the reserve should have no pilot chute (and they used to mark that on the container). If the rig is set up to cutaway with, everyone except in the very early days uses a spring loaded pilot chute.

A few people jumping vintage round mains for fun in recent years have had to come down under a round reserve for various reasons, and the videos are out there on youtube. Myself included. So you do want to understand the system you're jumping....

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You do NOT flare a Paracommander the way you do a ram-air. You just point it into the wind, put the toggles all the way up, put your legs together and prepare for a PLF. It may give you a stand-up landing, and it may not, depending upon wind speed.

Have fun!

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Hi Crustie,

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You do NOT flare a Paracommander the way you do a ram-air.



Nope. But you do flair somewhat. I would recommend just slowly bringing the toggles down all the way down just at touchdown.

My first PC jump was probably the easiest standup I have ever completed. I just slowly slowed her down and did a tippy-toe standup. You should have seen the looks on the guys who were watching.

Priceless!!!!!!!!!!!

Jerry Baumchen

PS) Now, if you're jumping a short-lined PC, all bets are off; face into the wind and see what happens. B|

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Oh yeah, I did scan the Gary Lewis Para-Commander handbook some years back. It doesn't explain belly mount reserve procedures or anything, but covers packing and flying the PC and how to modify them. There are various ways to pack depending on the speed and reliability desired. Old timers can debate which method worked for them.

http://parachutemanuals.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=41&func=fileinfo&id=308

Jerry mentioned flaring: While one does usually think of 'not flaring a round', the handbook does mention partial toggle or rear riser flares for landing a Para-Commander, because they do have some forward speed and variable lift involved.

P.S. I like the part in the handbook about how if you really want to save weight, you can cut out 4-5 lbs from the Para-Commander system. If you did that to a modern canopy you'd just be left holding a set of Slinks attacked to a bunch of short pieces of line...

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I've seen two PC landings, and the guy flaired just a bit with the rear risers.

He kinda gave it a tuck just prior to land. Looked like it didn't do anything.

The guy weighed less than 140 and had soft landing on both occasion. However I would not recommend flying one if you weigh over 200.
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

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I jumped a jumbo PC a couple of times. I quite enjoy the silent canopy ride down. Peaceful to say the least. Right up until the point you return to terra firma. Ouch. With these newfangled squares we sure have it easy.

-Michael

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Hi Peter,

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cut out 4-5 lbs from the Para-Commander system.



A lot of us cut 4 ft off of the lines. This was to reduce the glide of the canopy & to allow it to sink into the peas. Sort of what the square accuracy canopies now do.

WARNING: If you are jumping a short-lined PC down-wind, do not miss the peas. If you do miss, you better be tough. B|

BTDT many times.

Jerry Baumchen

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Thank god for the invention of Ram air parachute.

I don't think I would ever wanna take that much beating.

Did people actually weighed over 200 back in the days?

Jumpers pushing 200 is kinda modern thing no?
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

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I was about 230 and bought a 27' Russian PC because it landed softer than the ragged out T-10's the dropzone used for students. Couldn't jump a square till you had 50 jumps and I needed something that wasn't going to break me before I got there.

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I have about 130ish jumps on rounds from the old days, but won't give advice over the Internet about reserve procedures. You do need to do that with someone experienced up close and personal. There are a couple of partial malfunctions in which you do not cutaway, so let them teach you the right way.

If you have to land your round reserve it will go something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D2_RZZ8hx4

Learn to PLF from the older Army Airborne guy at your DZ and then your practicals from a height of no less than 6'

The parts that hurt after you get up will teach you what you're doing wrong. :)

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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Before you jump that Para-Commander, ask the oldest, greyest jumper to explain it to you. After you pull the Capewells apart, lubricate them with graphite (pencil lead), then practice a few more times.
After you tire of the smell of dusty, musty old nylon, go out back and roll around in the grass for a while. That grey-bearded old jumper will explain why you should keep your elbows in front of your face, but you won't clue-in until after you whack your elbow a few times.
Meanwhile, his old buddies will laugh at you while they rub their old scars.

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I think most of the issues now with jumping Paracommander's nowadays is that there are only a few people that are really current with them. If it is your first jump on one don't do anything fancy like trying to flare and that sort of thing. It is much easier to screw something up not knowing what you are doing than getting it right.

Landing a PC is not a big deal and it will look worse to others than it actually is. Make sure you have your feet and knees together and PLF. It will happen faster than you realize.

Do you know what kind of cutaway system it has? All of them have things to be aware of. Without knowing the cutaway system, I can't really give you any tips. There are a lot of different types but shot and halfs are probably the most common. If they are properly maintained they work ok.

Your profile shows that you are in Florida. I can recommend a few people you can see or talk to there that will give you information on them and many other retro parachutes. Later this fall when I am back in Florida I would be happy to jump a round or two with you and show you all about them. You don't have to be old to know about these systems.

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Why not put some new 3 ring risers on the pc and put it in a modern rig?

Usually a student rig or accuracy rig is big enough.

Ive got about 50-60 jumps on my pc in the last 10 years. All jumps are done with a modern container with 3rings and a square reserve. :)

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Why not put some new 3 ring risers on the pc and put it in a modern rig?



That is one way of doing it. I personally prefer keeping it authentic. I believe it comes down to what you are trying to get out of your jump. There is nothing wrong with older cutaway systems if you know the gear you're using.

I have done over 500 retro jumps in the last 10 years and all but one jump (borrowed a friend's rig) was done with complete retro gear. It can be done safely. To each their own.

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theduke

Why not put some new 3 ring risers on the pc and put it in a modern rig?

Usually a student rig or accuracy rig is big enough.

Ive got about 50-60 jumps on my pc in the last 10 years. All jumps are done with a modern container with 3rings and a square reserve. :)



Great, my next project

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