Looking to buy my FIRST RIG... HELP

[Eric2315 0]

Hey everyone. Looking to buy my first rig! Have Being told to get a 190 main so I can use that for a while I am jumping as fast as I can. I am 6'2 and fluctuate from 200-215 lbs. Please help me any suggestions on rig size and containers as well as brands. Thanks for your input.

[NWFlyer 2]

Eric2315

Hey everyone. Looking to buy my first rig! Have Being told to get a 190 main so I can use that for a while I am jumping as fast as I can. I am 6'2 and fluctuate from 200-215 lbs. Please help me any suggestions on rig size and containers as well as brands. Thanks for your input.

Assuming you are a brand-new skydiver whoever told you that might not have your best interests in mind. 215 lbs on a 190 is a wingloading of about 1.25-1.3, which isn't generally recommended for a novice jumper. Even at a weight of 200 your wingloading would still be on the high side on a 190.

If you take a look at Brian Germain's chart linked in the thread below, at an exit weight of 232 (which is the closest to your exit weight that's on the chart) a 190's not recommended till you're over 240 jumps.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3470220

Keep in mind, also, that wingloading recommendations also should be applied to your reserve.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[wmw999 2,121]

NWFlyer has good advice. It's not about having the smallest canopy, it's about what you can do with the one you have. And a bigger one will let you try (and potentially fail at) way more badass things than a small one will.

I'd suggest used. Let's you figure out what you really like, using someone else's depreciation.

Wendy P.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[peek 20]

Eric2315

Hey everyone. Looking to buy my first rig! Have Being told to get a 190 main so I can use that for a while I am jumping as fast as I can. I am 6'2 and fluctuate from 200-215 lbs. Please help me any suggestions on rig size and containers as well as brands. Thanks for your input.

Your best bet is to find an experienced jumper in your area that knows you and knows your skills. If they are a rigger it would be even better.

You can send this person the links to various gear you see on the internet that looks close to what you need, and they can comment on its value and on its appropriateness for you.

This will help you get a feel for what is out there and how much it may cost you to find what you need.

[councilman24 36]

peek

Your best bet is to find an experienced jumper in your area that knows you and knows your skills. If they are aN EXPERIENCED rigger AND INSTRUCTOR it would be even better.

Fixed it for you. As you know getting a rigger ticket has nothing to do with being able to recommend appropriate gear.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[sundevil777 93]

Quote

Being told to get a 190 main so I can use that for a while

It is completely wrong to let others convince you that you will not be happy staying with a 210 sized main or bigger. Your choice of words like "so I can use that for a while" imply that it is inevitable that you'd want to go even smaller than a 190. Don't fall for that way of thinking. Perhaps you will come to that conclusion on your own, but don't let others make that decision for you.

Plenty of wise, very experienced jumpers stick to a WL that you would have under a 210.

Plenty of wise, very experienced jumpers can walk without a limp after decades of jumping. Having a low WL contributes to that, at least I think it has in my case. Making a nice easy stand up landing without drama is plenty exciting for me.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[JWest 0]

The article Brian Germain wrote up has a lot of good information in it. That being said I am going to be "that guy" Ask your instructors and the people who have seen you fly, not the internet. Canopy choice is important. A docile 190 can be as safe or safer than an aggressive 210. If they approve of you getting a 190 then get a 190. A docile 190 such as a specter isn't going to kill you in a no flair landing.

[mxk 1]

JWest

The article Brian Germain wrote up has a lot of good information in it. That being said I am going to be "that guy" Ask your instructors and the people who have seen you fly, not the internet. Canopy choice is important. A docile 190 can be as safe or safer than an aggressive 210. If they approve of you getting a 190 then get a 190. A docile 190 such as a specter isn't going to kill you in a no flair landing.

"Will not kill you" is not the right criteria for selecting a canopy. A Spectre 190 puts him into the expert category, according to PD's wing loading chart. For what it's worth, I'm about the same size as the OP, just over 200 jumps, and very happy with my Spectre 230. No plans to downsize any time soon and wouldn't even think of jumping a 190 at this stage.

Incidentally, I was demoing the Spectre about 140 jumps ago, flared too late as the canopy started sinking due to a wind gust, and this resulted in my only (very minor) skydiving injury. I was limping for a couple of days afterwards, but glad that I was on a 230 and not anything smaller.

[BIGUN 1,053]

Approximately 20,000 skydives spanning about 35 years of experience from some of the skydivers I most respect from around the country. How was that for help?
At your weight, I started out with a 229, then went to a 219 for about a year of ~340 jumps, then went to a 189 for 3 years and ended up with a 169. Less than that; I was concerned about parasitic drag at 6'6"

Take your time and assume that you're on a three year canopy progression.

I wish you blue skies and safe jumps.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[yoink 321]

JWest

The article Brian Germain wrote up has a lot of good information in it. That being said I am going to be "that guy" Ask your instructors and the people who have seen you fly, not the internet. Canopy choice is important. A docile 190 can be as safe or safer than an aggressive 210. If they approve of you getting a 190 then get a 190. A docile 190 such as a specter isn't going to kill you in a no flair landing.

Please put your experience in your profile so that beginners like the OP can make an informed decision whether to listen to you or not.

For the OP - JWest has a history of posting controversially aggressive opinions on various types of progression, from cameras to canopies.

Experts in the skydiving are experts for a reason, and 'Instructor' isn't the same as 'Expert'. As a default I'd follow Germain's advice for a coupe of hundred jumps until you have the experience and knowledge to decide for yourself.

[JWest 0]

I'm all set. I won't take part in the pissing contest that happens here. My post came from logical deduction, my experience is irrelevant. It's possible that my view is skewed since my instructors have thousands of jumps, national and world medals, and a few world records between them. I would generally consider them all experts.

Yoink,
Check out the article by Germain, and read the canopy control articles under the safety tab of this website. There is a ton of good information and they are mostly written by 'experts'. If you have been jumping a 210 and are comfortable with it, able to do the drills suggested by Germain in his article, land safely, and the qualified people at your DZ tell you that they think you are ready for a 190 then get the 190.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

JWest

... My post came from logical deduction, my experience is irrelevant...

...If you have been jumping a 210 and are comfortable with it, able to do the drills suggested by Germain in his article, land safely, and the qualified people at your DZ tell you that they think you are ready for a 190 then get the 190.

No, your lack of experience is pretty obvious.

Why? Really. Why should someone downsize "just because they can"?

And the idea that the OP would be ok on a 190 because "a no flare landing wouldn't kill him" is pretty stupid.

Very few people get killed (or hurt, which is a lot more common) on a "no flare" landing.

They have to land out in a small area.
Or they make an aggressive turn too close to the ground (for a wide variety of reasons).
They catch a gust at the wrong time and don't react well.
And a bunch of other things.

A bit more experience in the sport and you'd be aware of this stuff.

To the OP, figure out your exit weight. That means stepping on a scale fully geared up, exactly as you would get on the plane.
I think you're going to be a bit surprised. The bigger student gear weighs a lot.

Then make your gear choices based on that. Brian's chart is a very good place to start.
Pick an appropriately sized reserve.
Then an appropriately sized main.
There are a lot of canopies appropriate for your skill level. Sabre2, Pilot & Safire are the most common.

Container manufacturer isn't all that important. They're all pretty good. Find one that will fit the canopies you should jump now.

Put the word out at your DZ that you are looking. Quite a few jumpers have older gear in their closet. Not worth a whole lot of money, but good for a first rig. They won't put it in the classifieds, but are often willing to sell it to a new guy to help him get in the air.

Consult with experienced jumpers, your instructors, your local gear store (if you have one), an experienced rigger.
Try to find someone who has no "skin in the game" (has no financial interest in the sale). I've seen and heard of newer jumpers being sold totally inappropriate gear by someone who advised them "You'll grow into it, buy it from me."

If someone says "It's a bit advanced for you, but you'll be ok if you are careful", then stop listening to them.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[JWest 0]

Quote

Why? Really. Why should someone downsize "just because they can"?

No one is saying they should, simply that they can. I get it, jump number is more important than competence. This forum has made that clear.

Quote

Very few people get killed (or hurt, which is a lot more common) on a "no flare" landing.

They have to land out in a small area.
Or they make an aggressive turn too close to the ground (for a wide variety of reasons).
They catch a gust at the wrong time and don't react well.
And a bunch of other things.
A bit more experience in the sport and you'd be aware of this stuff.

This is common sense in the skydiving world for anyone that can read.

We are essentially telling this guy the same thing. Listen to your instructors/ experienced jumpers and read what Germain has put out there. The only difference is that I'm saying if he wants to jump a 190 then he can jump a 190. No one is around here saying it's a stellar choice, but it is an option none the less.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

JWest

We are essentially telling this guy the same thing. Listen to your instructors/ experienced jumpers and read what Germain has put out there. The only difference is that I'm saying if he wants to jump a 190 then he can jump a 190. No one is around here saying it's a stellar choice, but it is an option none the less.

From the OP he's 215#. Presumably that's "stepping out of the shower" weight. Add clothes, shoes & gear and he's probably at or above 250#.

That's loading a 190 above 1.3:1.

Since he's looking for his first rig, I'm going to guess he's under 50 jumps. Almost certainly under 100. (Hey OP! Fill out your profile, you'll get better advice.)

While a jumper with that low of experience could choose to do that, it's stupid to do.

I don't care how much "competence" he might think he has.

There's only one thing that teaches a canopy pilot how to react instinctively under certain situations.

Experience.

Some of those reactions that are necessary are pretty counterintuitive. The natural reaction has to be trained out, and the proper one trained in.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo