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SKYCAM

T10R advice needed!

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Hi folks, have just been given a T10R (if you don't know what this is,
please keep moving on & don't leave silly comments) to repack for a
member of the Australian Payhfindrrs.

Issue being, military gear doesn't seem to have a TSO requirement, as they are manufactured to MilSpec's.

Here in Australian, Riggers/ Packers are not permitted to pack any reserve without a TSO label.

Any ideas as to as to how I can resolve this issue?

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So how did it work in the old days? Wasn't there Australian skydiving when everything was military surplus? Doesn't anyone jump vintage gear there? No WWII recreation groups doing static line jumps, or ex military guys using military style gear like one sees in the USA? Or do they all have to find actual military trained riggers?

There are no rules that a military certification can be considered to be equivalent to TSO certification?
(US FAA rules say an approved parachute for rigging purposes is either something TSO'd, or a US military approved parachute.)

Unless there are rules we don't know about, it does make it seem as if Australia has a more strict split between military and civilian gear and rigging.

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That is the issue I am facing!

Back in the golden days (I started in 1976), we did use a shitload of Mil Surplus, because that was all we had.

The Pathfinders are a Worldwide group of Military personnel (active & retired), who just want to jump roundies. The USPA, BPA & the Dutch Federation's welcome them with open arms.

All I want to do, is help them out here.

Issue being, no TSO label!!

I understand that MilSpec is usually the basis for all our equipment, but need someone to point me in the right direction to get something in writing.

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Start by reading the first chapter of Poynter's Manual, volume one. You will see that parachute production started with Military specifications, then civil aviation authorities adopted (almost photo-copied) MIL SPECs.
The process is clearer when you read American Federal Air Regulations which allow civilian, FAA-certified riggers to pack MIL SPEC or civilian parachutes manufactured under a Technical Standard Order, as long as they have a copy of the (military or civilian) manual.

Since the (US and Canadian) military quit selling surplus parachutes circa 1980, they have gradually faded from the skydiving business, but the FAA has not updated the Federal Air Regulations.

A few years back, CSPA split parachute containers into five different types, retaining chest more as a formality, as they are exceeding rare at Canadian DZs. So a CSPA-rigger can repack chest reserves provided he/she has already packed a bunch (10) under the supervision of a rigger who is already rated for the type.

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Hi SKYCAM,

Quote

Here in Australian, Riggers/ Packers are not permitted to pack any reserve without a TSO label.



I am well aware that any rules here in the USA may not, and probably will not, have anything to do with Australia.

However, I am curious as to who says the above about 'without a TSO label.'

Is it a gov't req'ment?

Is it an APF req'ment?

Jerry Baumchen

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SKYCAM

All containers & reserves need to have TSO approval here in Australia.

Well, at least for those folk who live here.




Look at APF Service Bulletin 081014.

It mentions Military equipment and so I don't believe it needs the TSO label if it meets the requirements of that service bulletin?
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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SKYCAM

Thanks Nigel, it is a pity that our colleagues in Qld couldn't point me in this direction!



Well I am fresh off my Packer A course and Andy Knowles who taught me, spent alot of time going through Service Bulletins etc.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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On 4/29/2015 at 10:59 PM, SKYCAM said:

Hi folks, have just been given a T10R (if you don't know what this is,
please keep moving on & don't leave silly comments) to repack for a
member of the Australian Payhfindrrs.

Issue being, military gear doesn't seem to have a TSO requirement, as they are manufactured to MilSpec's.

Here in Australian, Riggers/ Packers are not permitted to pack any reserve without a TSO label.

Any ideas as to as to how I can resolve this issue?

 

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Be careful packing old US military equipment, most of it has a published service life of 10yrs with 2-3 yrs shelf life for a maximum of 13yrs. Newer gear has an improved age life of 16.5 yrs, 12yr service life

FAR part 105 authorizes packing and use of military equipment; §105.3 Definitions.
For the purposes of this part—
Approved parachute means a parachute manufactured under a type certificate or a Technical
Standard Order (C-23 series), or a personnel-carrying U.S. military parachute (other than a high
altitude, high speed, or ejection type) identified by a Navy Air Facility, an Army Air Field, and Air
Force-Navy drawing number, an Army Air Field order number, or any other military designation or
specification number.

Edited by race25

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1 hour ago, race25 said:

Be careful packing old US military equipment, most of it has a published service life . . .

In the US, unless a TSO approval states otherwise, a shelf life/service life limitation does not apply to formerly military equipment in civilian use.  See AC 105-2E para 13.b.(2).

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On 2/22/2023 at 5:23 PM, mark said:

In the US, unless a TSO approval states otherwise, a shelf life/service life limitation does not apply to formerly military equipment in civilian use.  See AC 105-2E para 13.b.(2).

Yes.

The military shelf life or service life only applies while that parachute is in military service,

Once it is surplused-off, it reverts to civlian regulations.

A civilian rigger can assemble, inspect, repair and repack that parachute as long as he/she has the military manual.

Poynter's Manual Volume 1 just condenses dozens of US military manuals into a single volume of "must know" information.

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