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df8m1

New AAD made in USA

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15 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Skydivers get very emotional about AADs.

Yes they do lol. Jumpers and brand loyalty go hand in hand :)

And I will admit I got a little "ruffled" by that one lol.:tongue: 

That kind of challenge is actually good for me though, as it gives me a chance to practice addressing the concerns, (in this instance doubts) regarding the technical aspects of this AAD from a technical and marketing position which is something that I will have to be able to do on the spot and without hesitation. I am a lot better at building things then selling them lol.

Keep the challenges coming!!

 

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23 hours ago, df8m1 said:

A thought just occurred to me. If the cell phone companies only manufactured the first flip phones that only call and text, then I bet after 25 years of refinement of that (now basic) functionality I bet the batteries would last for years too lol.  What most people don’t realize is that the smart phone designers have been able to maintain the same size case because they were able to make the electronics smaller so there is more room for a larger capacity battery lol.

They still make basic flip phones. I use one. 

And yes, the battery lasts and lasts (not years, but still a long time). 

 

This is a fascinating product. 
I'm not in the market for an AAD for a while, but I think this one would be worth considering when the time comes. 
How would the 'shelf life' on the batteries be? 
1000 jumps would last me a long, long time (longer than current AADs last). 

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On 1/24/2020 at 6:12 AM, ChrisHoward said:

So there is the M2 apparently. I am not going to use that as any Standard Bench mark, especially considering it's relatively short field history (I will wait until one lasts its 15 years 1st).

 

Mars has been making AADs for more than 20 years. They are by no means new to the market. They just havent been making the M2 AAD for 20 years, but they have had other versions for other markets. I was wrong on the 10k number, it's 15k as Mars states. However, as has been said previously, all current AAD manufactures (Cypress, Mars, Vigil) are making AADs which do not require service for a minimum of 10 years. As a result, 10 years is the de facto standard because literally everyone that is making an AAD at this very moment is operating to that specification.

However, I was not aware his product had field replaceable batteries so that moots my point. My concern was more with the returning of the AAD than with the actual battery itself.

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(edited)
On 12/1/2019 at 1:36 PM, df8m1 said:

I am always surprised how fast time goes by when one is having fun lol.. I didn’t mean to go this long without an update, so I will bring everyone up to speed.

My team and I have been focused on the military AADs (Static Line and Manned Free Fall) fine tuning the hardware and firing algorithms, and I am pleased with how each AAD is turning out. I am trying to be mindful of the workload, as I do not want to burn my team out, so the evolvement has been slower but steady.

Now that my confidence in the military AADs is high, I will be turning my attention to the Sport AAD hardware and firing algorithms. It was my initial intention that the military and sport hardware would be the same, but the features that the military is asking for require hardware and software that is not of value to the sport market, and in an effort to keep the cost of the sport AAD down and reduce power consumption, dedicated sport AAD hardware is needed.

Fortunately, the changes are mostly elimination of components, such as the BLE, and changing out the 32MB Micro SD-card with smaller but less power hunger onboard memory, so the revision design effort will not be bad. It just takes time to make the changes and have them reviewed, update based on the results of the review, resubmit for design review, yada yada.. Very important process, but can take some time.

I also have been making some changes to little things from a “fit and finish/feel/perception” perspective. So far the changes have increased quality feel and performance while reducing the cost. Details are important to me and I am glad we are taking our time to get it right.

After taking with many jumpers of varying backgrounds, it is very apparent that the skydiving industry is not ready to embrace some of the things that I wanted to carry over from the automotive industry, mainly the remote monitoring of the AAD self test results. Infrastructure challenges aside, jumpers are just not ready for that, so I am shelving that feature for the sport AAD. One positive side to doing that is I can eliminate the BLE circuitry and code; however there will still be a Micro USB connector in the interface.

As if all that is not enough, I am also looking at different business models in an effort to identify which ones make the most business sense as we come closer to going to market. There are a lot of moving parts and the right strategic partner can increase the success dramatically. I keep telling myself  “if this was easy everyone would be doing it” lol..

 

How are you going to differentiate between a canopy opening and wingsuit operation that looks like a canopy opening? It is entirely possible, and not even that hard honestly, to replicate what appears to be an opening canopy using a wingsuit. I can dive my wingsuit to a vertical speed of 120 MPH and then over the course of 600' flare up to a 20 MPH decent rate and hold at that rate for several seconds. On a graph annotating only decent rate, the two scenarios would look quite similar. That's why altimeter manufacturers struggle with correctly identifying when the canopy opens with wingsuit use. Many of the digital altimeters out there have a wingsuit mode, but with a large wingsuit they still dont work and they misjudge the opening altitude all of the time because there is no way for them to differentiate between a canopy and a wingsuit when flying a wingsuit that has the ability to gain altitude. With only one sensor indicating only air pressure, the device has no way to determine anything other than fall rate. The only company out there that has had success with this issue that I know of is the AON X2 because it uses GPS to determine canopy opening info so it can measure on all three axis. However, even at that the altimeter misjudges opening altitude sometimes. Even my own AAD sometimes misjudges opening altitude. It does a much better job than most digital altimeters do, but even it gets tricked on rare occasion if I am flying a large race suit and doing flares.

Edited by 20kN

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11 hours ago, 20kN said:

How are you going to differentiate between a canopy opening and wingsuit operation that looks like a canopy opening? It is entirely possible, and not even that hard honestly, to replicate what appears to be an opening canopy using a wingsuit. I can dive my wingsuit to a vertical speed of 120 MPH and then over the course of 600' flare up to a 20 MPH decent rate and hold at that rate for several seconds. On a graph annotating only decent rate, the two scenarios would look quite similar. That's why altimeter manufacturers struggle with correctly identifying when the canopy opens with wingsuit use. Many of the digital altimeters out there have a wingsuit mode, but with a large wingsuit they still dont work and they misjudge the opening altitude all of the time because there is no way for them to differentiate between a canopy and a wingsuit when flying a wingsuit that has the ability to gain altitude. With only one sensor indicating only air pressure, the device has no way to determine anything other than fall rate. The only company out there that has had success with this issue that I know of is the AON X2 because it uses GPS to determine canopy opening info so it can measure on all three axis. However, even at that the altimeter misjudges opening altitude sometimes. Even my own AAD sometimes misjudges opening altitude. It does a much better job than most digital altimeters do, but even it gets tricked on rare occasion if I am flying a large race suit and doing flares.

His design has accelerometers instead of just pressure sensors. That changes everything in terms of what mode of flight can be detected.

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On 1/25/2020 at 5:34 PM, wolfriverjoe said:

They still make basic flip phones. I use one. 

And yes, the battery lasts and lasts (not years, but still a long time). 

 

This is a fascinating product. 
I'm not in the market for an AAD for a while, but I think this one would be worth considering when the time comes. 
How would the 'shelf life' on the batteries be? 
1000 jumps would last me a long, long time (longer than current AADs last). 

Thank you for your encouraging comments! I too am excited about this AAD lol. :D

The manufacture shelf life speck is 10 years for reference.  

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21 hours ago, 20kN said:

How are you going to differentiate between a canopy opening and wingsuit operation that looks like a canopy opening? It is entirely possible, and not even that hard honestly, to replicate what appears to be an opening canopy using a wingsuit. I can dive my wingsuit to a vertical speed of 120 MPH and then over the course of 600' flare up to a 20 MPH decent rate and hold at that rate for several seconds. On a graph annotating only decent rate, the two scenarios would look quite similar. That's why altimeter manufacturers struggle with correctly identifying when the canopy opens with wingsuit use. Many of the digital altimeters out there have a wingsuit mode, but with a large wingsuit they still dont work and they misjudge the opening altitude all of the time because there is no way for them to differentiate between a canopy and a wingsuit when flying a wingsuit that has the ability to gain altitude. With only one sensor indicating only air pressure, the device has no way to determine anything other than fall rate. The only company out there that has had success with this issue that I know of is the AON X2 because it uses GPS to determine canopy opening info so it can measure on all three axis. However, even at that the altimeter misjudges opening altitude sometimes. Even my own AAD sometimes misjudges opening altitude. It does a much better job than most digital altimeters do, but even it gets tricked on rare occasion if I am flying a large race suit and doing flares.

 Respectfully, the conditions that you described regarding "mimicking a main deployment" is based on a very narrow section of what is really going on, and is not what a deployment looks like data wise. 

I get asked this question all the time and I have not been able to figure out a way to answer it to any satisfaction without providing direction to the other manufactures, who as you pointed out, are struggling with that capability. 

This is why my power consumption is higher then a "standard AAD" or altimeter. As Sundevil777 pointed out, I am measuring more aspects then the standard AADs or altimeters currently do. Sundevil777 and I have chatted about when I was at his DZ testing a while ago. 

Like I said before, "if it was easy, everyone would be doing it".  I get challenged all the time about this aspect. The standard response I get is "I will never trust it unless I can see the code to judge for myself", and I reply, "I am sorry to hear that. Good thing there are three other AADs you can chose from" .

The algorithms that determine if the jumper is in the plane or has exited, the canopy and wingsuit detection, main deployment detection, good canopy detection, and cutaway detection are very complex and rely on a lot of data. The actual firing command is pretty basic, as one would imagine, as it is still just speed and altitude, it is the situationall justification conformation and authorization to fire that is so demanding processing wise. It has been stated in this thread several time “that it is more important that it does not fire when it should not, then fire when it should”.

My programmer has made the firing software stand-alone so I can be ported to another hardware platform that has the necessary instrumentation and processing horsepower. Hypothetically, one of the current AAD manufacturers could buy it from us, but the current AAD hardware platforms are not capable of running it, so they would have to build a new hardware platform, or buy ours. We have even joked about making it run in an I-Phone lol.

It is not fair to the current AADs or Altimeters to compare how well they handle the very challenging task of identifying the flight mode progressions that skydivers go through to this AAD because they really are very different devices, which use different approaches.

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2 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Do you ask those folks if they trust the CYPRES or Vigil? 
And if they've seen the code for those?

I have made an effort not to bring up any manufacturer by name. Those who are hard core, die hard supporters for one manufacturer tend to stand out from the statements or arguments they make, and nothing I or anyone else for that matter, will ever say anything that will change that. (Not that there is anything wrong with lobbying for one manufacturer or another as long as there is not direct evidence of the AAD they are supporting is deadly for lack of a better term).

That being said... you nailed it lol.. 

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(edited)

Of all the things that have been considered during the development of this AAD, an apocalypse was not one of them. However, despite the many changes on all fronts, progress continues to be made.

I am expecting to start performing the flight testing of the Phase 1 Alfa program for the Sport AAD by the end of June, followed by the Phase 2 software by mid-August. 

If all goes to plan, the Phase 2 Alpha will become the Rev-A Beta software. Very excited to have that within sight!

I have been thinking about if / how to compare some of the features of this AAD to the current AADs without calling out specific brands. Differences range from selftest / system awareness, to what is considered when making the decision to fire or not.

I like the idea of just focusing on our product, but sometimes it is hard to answer a question about this AAD without comparing it to the current ones. But at that point, that is a good problem to have lol.

Things are coming together nicely. Looking forward to going live!

 

 

 

Edited by df8m1
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I am looking for information on the two Swoop AAD fires that occurred very recently. From the video I saw of one of them, it is obvious that it is not the pilot's first day so I would be very surprised if it was a matter of the AAD not being in the right mode. And with two I am thinking the odds of it being an operator error would be less.

I am surprised there is not any posts about them... or am I not looking in the right places?

 

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31 minutes ago, df8m1 said:

I am looking for information on the two Swoop AAD fires that occurred very recently. From the video I saw of one of them, it is obvious that it is not the pilot's first day so I would be very surprised if it was a matter of the AAD not being in the right mode. And with two I am thinking the odds of it being an operator error would be less.

I am surprised there is not any posts about them... or am I not looking in the right places?

 

There is a recent FB post in the rigger forum about a low AAD fire due to a miss set CYPRES. It said something about blaming the rigger because it was not set to swoop mode after being re-installed post servicing. It went like this:

 

SAFETY ANNOUNCEMENT!!!!
If you get your Cypres serviced, when you get it back, make sure it is in the proper mode. Just had a jumper have this happen and he and his rigger forgot to set it to 'Speed' and his unit fired while performing a high performance turn. He ended up having a Bi-Plane and landed uneventfully, thank god. WHEN YOU TURN YOUR AAD ON, MAKE SURE IT'S IN THE PROPER MODE PEOPLE. DON'T JUST HIT THE BUTTON 3 TIMES AND NOT WATCH IT COUNT DOWN!!!!
Public announcement from The Ranch PROshop!!
 
 
 

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On 5/27/2020 at 11:07 PM, df8m1 said:

I am expecting to start performing the flight testing of the Phase 1 Alfa program for the Sport AAD by the end of June, followed by the Phase 2 software by mid-August. 

 I guess you'd already post an update if you wanted to share something, but I have to ask regardless. Any updates? ^.^

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On 10/4/2020 at 10:47 PM, gowlerk said:

There is a recent FB post in the rigger forum about a low AAD fire due to a miss set CYPRES. It said something about blaming the rigger because it was not set to swoop mode after being re-installed post servicing. It went like this:

 

SAFETY ANNOUNCEMENT!!!!
If you get your Cypres serviced, when you get it back, make sure it is in the proper mode. Just had a jumper have this happen and he and his rigger forgot to set it to 'Speed' and his unit fired while performing a high performance turn. He ended up having a Bi-Plane and landed uneventfully, thank god. WHEN YOU TURN YOUR AAD ON, MAKE SURE IT'S IN THE PROPER MODE PEOPLE. DON'T JUST HIT THE BUTTON 3 TIMES AND NOT WATCH IT COUNT DOWN!!!!
Public announcement from The Ranch PROshop!!
 
 
 

I had heard that there were two swoop AAD fires that weekend. Were both because of a poor preflight check?

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3 minutes ago, df8m1 said:

I had heard that there were two swoop AAD fires that weekend. Were both because of a poor preflight check?

IDK anything beyond what I saw on FB. But I would assume that nearly all swoop initiated 2 outs are caused by either using the wrong AAD or setting the AAD incorrectly.

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On 10/5/2020 at 5:26 AM, Binary93 said:

 I guess you'd already post an update if you wanted to share something, but I have to ask regardless. Any updates? ^.^

lol.. well thanks for asking :)

We are in what I call the very dirty house keeping phase, so many little details... I am happy with the results, just wish things were moving faster. The forest fires and subsequent evacuations in CA have been a set back as well, but we will persevere. Some things are more important than making an AAD.

I have spoken with a couple people about funding the manufacturer approval process / manufacturing / marketing phases, but have not found the right fit yet.

The tests we have conducted so far have gone well and the AAD performed as expected. The larger LCD screen for the interface is in the works, and I am taking with a new pyro company for our cutters.

This year has not been what I had hoped, but it was not for everyone else either lol

 

 

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On 10/6/2020 at 11:51 AM, gowlerk said:

IDK anything beyond what I saw on FB. But I would assume that nearly all swoop initiated 2 outs are caused by either using the wrong AAD or setting the AAD incorrectly.

That statement makes me feel proud of what we are creating. :D

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(edited)

It seems lately that there are more and more posts about AADs not performing properly when it was really a case of the user failing to either read and understand the AAD's user manual, or failed to do what the manual says to do, and as an AAD developer, this concerns me greatly.

I was shocked last summer when several coach candidates said they did not know how to turn off an AAD, meaning they must all either leave their rigs at the DZ and let them time out (OK there) or they put them in their car and go home (I bet every AAD user manual states to turn off the AAD before driving with it), and in some cases doing so has put the AAD in to its plane mode (this has been the sub-topic of a recent discussion in a different thread).

Of all the things that have to be accounted for and resolved, I can't think of a way to resolve the issue of a user not reading or following the instructions.

Edited by df8m1

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16 minutes ago, df8m1 said:

Of all the things that have to be accounted for and resolved, I can't think of a way to resolve the issue of a user not reading or following the instructions.

That is only one of the pieces of gear knowledge missing from many jumpers tool box of resources. Some people care about the details of their equipment, but many just think of a rig as turnkey thing after they spend their money on it. AADs in particular are generally thought of as black box devices that function just the same as their iPhone. The reason you can't think of a way to resolve the issue is that for some customers there will never be a way. The current training methods for new jumpers does not emphasize gear knowledge. There is no money in it so jumpers must pursue it on their own for the most part. And a significant minority number of them don't want to make the considerable effort. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it RTFM.

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5 hours ago, df8m1 said:

 (I bet every AAD user manual states to turn off the AAD before driving with it), and in some cases doing so has put the AAD in to its plane mode (this has been the sub-topic of a recent discussion in a different thread).

How much are you willing to bet ? To my knowledge only one does. Hint: you stated the manufacturer 3 times in the above quoted paragraph. 

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2 hours ago, piisfish said:

How much are you willing to bet ? To my knowledge only one does. Hint: you stated the manufacturer 3 times in the above quoted paragraph. 

 

LOL.. OK my Cypres loving friend :)… Here you go..

From the Vigil 2.0.3 user manual 2015

“To avoid an “airborne condition” (See page 23 for more detail) of your Vigil®2+ due to a difference in pressure equivalent

to more than plus or minus 90 ft (27,5 m) compared to the “ground zero” reference (pressure), you must ALWAYS manually shut down your Vigil®2+ at the end of the day, and BEFORE leaving the drop-zone.”

The interesting part is I very recently was asked to revise how this AAD detects a take off because of a coding conflict that would have required a bulky solution.  The takeoff detection logic has provisions to handle “in car travel”, even though the user manual will clearly state to turn it off prior to driving with the rig.

AADs are designed for aviation use.. Now if one were to drive a car out of the back of a plane, then that is a different story! Lol..

 

 

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3 hours ago, df8m1 said:

 

LOL.. OK my Cypres loving friend :)… Here you go..

 

From the Vigil 2.0.3 user manual 2015

 

“To avoid an “airborne condition” (See page 23 for more detail) of your Vigil®2+ due to a difference in pressure equivalent

 

to more than plus or minus 90 ft (27,5 m) compared to the “ground zero” reference (pressure), you must ALWAYS manually shut down your Vigil®2+ at the end of the day, and BEFORE leaving the drop-zone.”

 

The interesting part is I very recently was asked to revise how this AAD detects a take off because of a coding conflict that would have required a bulky solution.  The takeoff detection logic has provisions to handle “in car travel”, even though the user manual will clearly state to turn it off prior to driving with the rig.

 

AADs are designed for aviation use.. Now if one were to drive a car out of the back of a plane, then that is a different story! Lol..

 

 

 

Hi Dave,

I think Nic means this:   

(I bet every AAD user manual states to turn off the AAD before driving with it), and in some cases doing so has put the AAD in to its plane mode (this has been the sub-topic of a recent discussion in a different thread).

AAD is the maker of the Vigil; Advanced Aerospace Design ( I think ).

Jerry Baumchen

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20 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Dave,

I think Nic means this:   

(I bet every AAD user manual states to turn off the AAD before driving with it), and in some cases doing so has put the AAD in to its plane mode (this has been the sub-topic of a recent discussion in a different thread).

AAD is the maker of the Vigil; Advanced Aerospace Design ( I think ).

Jerry Baumchen

Yep, I thought he was referring to the Cypres.

I am very surprised after reviewing the Cypres 2 manual that it only says this:

If the unit is taken away from the airfield/drop-zone by vehicle or on foot and later brought back it needs to be reset.

Very bold I'd say..

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15 hours ago, df8m1 said:

Yep, I thought he was referring to the Cypres.

I am very surprised after reviewing the Cypres 2 manual that it only says this:

If the unit is taken away from the airfield/drop-zone by vehicle or on foot and later brought back it needs to be reset.

Very bold I'd say..

Why is it 'bold'?

I would think it very hard, if not impossible to meet the firing parameters for a CYPRES in a car.

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