Do you consider yourself a good "Spotter"?

[Legs 0]

It occurs to me that exit seperation (being discussed in another thread) is closly linked to spotting ability. How do you rate your own competency? Whats the worst spot you've ever been subjected to?

Cheers

With love in Christ

[phoenixlpr 0]

Define good spotting!

Is that just and only spotting this time? Or organizing a load for 14+ people from a plane?

[Legs 0]

aaarrrgggh, I new somebody would throw this back to me.

I guess it encompassess all of that. In fact it even encompasses when you throw yourself out of the plane, even when someone else acting as jump master has told you it is safe to leave. I understand that when spotting (especially on the first run of the day) we rely on information sources that may be incorrect but I have experienced people with consistently bad results and was looking for general opinion.

I am very young in this sport, I was hoping to gain insight from everyone elses experiences by triggering a discussion.

I also feel that many skydivers rate themselves very highly and was interested in seeing the results of a poll.

A good technique that I was shown recently, was to look at the objects around you on the ground, instead of the ground itself. For example if you can see some inside edge of the trees on all sides around a ploughed field your position must be directly above that field. If you use this method and defocus and concentrate on your peripheral vision you build up a concentric circle effect of inside edges and your position is in the centre of those concentric circles. It seems to work for me, but as I say I'm a newby and listening

With love in Christ

[phoenixlpr 0]

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A good technique that I was shown recently, was to look at the objects around you on the ground, instead of the ground itself. For example if you can see some inside edge of the trees on all sides around a ploughed field your position must be directly above that field. If you use this method and defocus and concentrate on your peripheral vision you build up a concentric circle effect of inside edges and your position is in the centre of those concentric circles. It seems to work for me, but as I say I'm a newby and listeningAngelic

What I have seen: We throw a steamer and watch where it was landing and than find a landmark we fly over in the wind and another we jump out when we passed and higher winds should be taken into consideration if we don't jump a low altitude hop and hop.

It gets a bit more complicated with more people, groups of different discipline and longer jump runs from bigger planes. Usually everyone can not have perfect spot, just good enough.

On the other side, I was flying with a pilot where it was close to imposible to give effective correction, because he turned the plane in the jumprun so late .

[slotperfect 7]

I find it interesting that your first two positive choices are "perfect" (never had a bad spot), and just "OK" (occasional bad spot). The best of spotters have an occasional bad one.

In the MFF community we always say "if you've never had a bad spot, you haven't been spotting very long." Bear in mind that we are trained to spot large, fast moving aircraft wearing a rucksack, weapon, and oxygen from very high altitudes (C-130, 130 KIAS, as high as 25K FT).

I have been spotting airplanes for a long time - I enjoy it. It's an art that is rapidly fading in our sport because of the debut of GPS spots used by jump planes. There are plenty of people around to teach it, but there are very few opportunities for people to apply it practically in the airplane. We cover it as effectively as we can for students, but attrition of knowledge sets in quickly if they don't apply what they learn.

I learned the critical importance of spotting by doing demos with the Golden Knights. Jumping into some very tight places, landing accuracy becomes critically important - and it all starts with a good spot. Interpreting the wind information, making adjustments, and trusting your gut at times. And spotting for a 20-way is much different than spotting for a 2-way - allowing time for the climb-out and allowing more distance for the extra free fall drift.

It's both an art and a science . . .

Arrive Safely

John

[L.O. 0]

I have spent most of my adult life spotting. I flew airplanes for skydivers and made a few skydives myself. I have spotted Otters, Cessnas, Beavers, DC-3s, you name it. A few years ago when they needed a spotter for the DC-4 at Rantoul, they came to me.

The loss of the ability to spot yourself is tragic. Everyone just climbs out on the green. From time to time, I just go on green to. When you can't spot, even if you need to, shame on you. If your DZO/M tells you to just shut up and go on green, perhaps you should demand a little say in when and where you get out of the plane. It is your life after all.

Try to be unlike most Americans..., take a little responsibility for yourself and your actions.

I would love to know who it was who has never had anyone land off because of thier spot. It must be someone who has done almost no spotting at all.

HPDBs, I hate those guys.
AFB, charter member.

[stratostar 5]

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I would love to know who it was who has never had anyone land off because of thier spot. It must be someone who has done almost no spotting at all.

I for one voted that way due to the poor choices in the poll, I wouldn't say "never". But very rare is a better word, you can give a perfect spot and some idiot can fly off to the corn fields cuz they don't know how to fly their canopy.

Anyone who really want to see how good they can spot, jump a round canopy, we /you will see how good you really are.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[popsjumper 2]

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Anyone who really want to see how good they can spot, jump a round canopy, we /you will see how good you really are.

...but oh, so true.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[billvon 2,398]

I was pretty good when I was spotting at Brown. Spotting was absolutely critical - we had a foreign country 1/3 of a mile south, mountains east, two prisons to the north, and industrial parks to the west. We used to argue over 100 yards differences in spots. I was one of 3-4 people who could spot for AFF students.

That's not to say I was perfect, of course - but I made sure that the errors I made were towards safe areas. A few people landed out over the years, usually due to long spots.

[BillyVance 34]

I've spotted for most of the demo jumps I've been a part of. Never had a problem. Of course, most of them were from a C182 from between 2000 and 5000 feet.

I've never had problems spotting a normal load from 10,000 feet, although I may have had one or two mistakes when I had a couple hundred jumps.

If I'm going to spot, I make sure I know what the upper winds and ground winds are like and the direction of the jump run before getting on the plane.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[kkeenan 13]

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Try to be unlike most Americans..., take a little responsibility for yourself and your actions.

Certainly not relevant to the discussion, but how do you figure that "most" Americans don't take responsibility. Of course, you imply that you are the exception to this. Do you feel that the rest of the world differs in this ?

Kevin

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[Legs 0]

Its an interesting discussion so far but I feel so much is unsaid.

I appologise for the wording of the poll, I agree it could have been better (I was just off to bed after a busy night shift).

Saying that I feel I have to clarify that "No one has landed off due to my spotting" is meant to say just that. I understand that there are other reasons people land off (Bad canopy piloting) but this was meant to show how many of us feel we are infalable.

I note that there have been several people vote "What is spotting?", but no one has given a good definition or any other techniques.

One of the reasons I posted this was the statment made in another thread regarding exit seperation, that ground clearence was all important (One that I agree with). But to practice this each and every skydiver must have good spotting skills.

Come on guys, you skydivers with high jump numbers must have some advice for us newbys on best definitions and methods? Yes I understand that there is an art to it after you become experienced, but it has to be based on science? And us newbs have to start somewhere.

Thank you for your contributions so far, I look forward to seeing some help in here for the uninitiated.
Cheers

With love in Christ

[Fast 0]

Ya know, for a younger jumper, I think I am pretty good at spotting. I do quite a few jumps out of cessnas and end up being the one doing the spotting a lot of time for our turbine. That is just cause I care to do it. It isn't really that hard to do, it just takes some practice and a basic understanding of wind drift. I also like to find the windline and watch my canopy track in the sky on every jump.

Spotting to me is also to include things like asking the pilot to move the GPS mark where the green comes on. I do things like that too, because all to often people wont spot and just go on the green. That is where a few jumpers like me help out in keeping it accurate all day.

You might get me to admit to spotting at least 1 load where I had a good feeling we were going to land off, but everyone would have been warned that might be the case if I had ever done something like that. Something about, not wanting to go through clouds and not wanting to land with the plane. Though I can't say for sure that it has actually happened.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[matthewcline 0]

I voted occasional bad spot.

I try to always have a winds aloft forecast sent to my office or I will call the WX breif # and get the winds aloft and plot out a HARP (High Altitude Release Point) for ALL jumps I do.

I have a laminated photo of my "usual" DZ's and the compass markings and 1K grid marks so I can plot the RP.

From there I adjust as the day goes along or the Wind Drift Indicators visual return when used on load 1.

I also teach students from Tandem or Static Line jump # 1 how to read the water surface, smoke from fires, steam pipes at the river, flags on high points and any other reference I can point out.

All this too comes from Military Demo Team work and growing up skydiving under some pretty good MFF/MFF-JM trained mentors (although I am not a MFF dude, but have jumped the gear a few times).

In my "Mon to Fri" job I ask my Pathfinder Students, "What are you going to do when the batteries die in you Garmin?"

They always answer "Do it like you old school dudes did it". (OK not ALL of them say that but a PFC said it and it is the best quote ever from a Pathfinder Student)

Matt

Shit! That punk called me OLD!

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Amazon 7]

I started jumping in the old days when Spotting for my round canopy was a VERY good survival technique.

I still jump a round once in a while and I can still spot it to land where I want.

[jimmytavino 16]

Yes.

[kallend 1,623]

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Whats the worst spot you've ever been subjected to?

Cheers

I was on a 44 way that landed in the wrong county. Roger Nelson was spotting it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[stratostar 5]

My favorit spot was, Johnny Stewart opened the door and looked and looked and looked for a hole, then looked back inside and said " I saw a cow, 5 right and cut!" Yes indeed it was the cows next door.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[skrovi 0]

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In the MFF community we always say "if you've never had a bad spot, you haven't been spotting very long." Bear in mind that we are trained to spot large, fast moving aircraft wearing a rucksack, weapon, and oxygen from very high altitudes (C-130, 130 KIAS, as high as 25K FT).

I was curious, spotting from 25K in Military Freefall, do you always have a clear visible ground to spot? If not then isn't electronic instrumentation used to determine where you want to drop people factoring in wind speeds etc.,? that's not spotting is it? what about night?

[airtwardo 6]

If you use this method and defocus and concentrate on your peripheral vision you build up a concentric circle effect of inside edges and your position is in the centre of those concentric circles.

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Interesting way of putting it...

I never thought about it in quite those terms, but I think I do essentially the same thing, except that I draw an imaginary 90 degree angle to the horizon.

One of the most important things that 'some' newer spotters fail to do is to get their head out of the aircraft to a point that they actually CAN look STRAIGHT down.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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[2shay 0]

I have landed by a nursing home before and an old farm women who had a heart of gold gave us a ride, not my spot though. The fun ones are when the uppers are one direction and the ground winds are in a different direction. I have also seen days when the winds were doing little to nothing and we couldn't land on the dz even the owner, who had thousands upon thousands of jumps, was scrathing his head about it. I have yet to blow a spot, but I think they are kinda like mals you will after a while. this sport can be pretty funny sometimes.

I love this sport too =)

don't try your bullshit with me!!!

[slotperfect 7]

For JM release we are required to be able to visibly acquire the release point (spot). For CARP/HARP release we exit on the green light; the release point is determined by the navigator and the pilots fly to it on a pre-determined track using their nav equipment. When I am JM for 25K CARP/HARP releases, I will always try to confirm visually where we are (I stay oriented on the way up by looking through the windows).

Night jumps we spot just like day jumps. Usually there are enough reference points to be able to stay oriented, and with the exception of special training, the impact point (target) is marked with lights.

Arrive Safely

John

[phoenixlpr 0]

Oh, I had my first night jump and night spotting last Friday. Its a bit different in night time.

[slotperfect 7]

Yup - it's dark!

It's important to stay oriented for the entire climb so you know when you turn on jump run. Locating the target from the air during the climb gives you the sight picture to look for on jump run.

Arrive Safely

John

[skrovi 0]

thank you for clarifying slotperfect!!