kallend 1,621 #1 February 9, 2015 Thinking of replacing my 20 year old PR143 (only been used twice) with an Optimum160. Does anyone have any experience of the Optimum reserves?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #2 February 9, 2015 These folks might.Never had to give one a plan B ride. Have made a couple demo jumps on a 160. Took it terminal and it was much softer than a PDR 143. Some believe that soft opening means it won't open as fast when needed. Has a much better flare, almost like a main.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roostnureye 2 #3 February 9, 2015 kallend Thinking of replacing my 20 year old PR143 (only been used twice) with an Optimum160. Does anyone have any experience of the Optimum reserves? i have one ride on an OP126. it flew better than my spectre Flock University FWC / ZFlock B.A.S.E. 1580 Aussie BASE 121 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EatSleepFly 0 #4 February 9, 2015 I have a ride on a 143 loaded at 1.3 and a couple on a 176 at 1.1. No rides on any other type of reserve, so I don't have anything to compare it to, but it opened and landed beautifully. That being said, I hope my streak of having to use one once a season is over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #5 February 9, 2015 monkycndo These folks might.. Not sure how objective they are.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #6 February 9, 2015 Heard nothing but good things about Opts from people who rode them. Apparently they work well in a 2-out scenario as well!!! NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #7 February 9, 2015 kallend ***These folks might.. Not sure how objective they are.They probably are pretty objective when comparing a PDR to a OPT.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trafficdiver 8 #8 February 9, 2015 kallendThinking of replacing my 20 year old PR143 (only been used twice) with an Optimum160. Does anyone have any experience of the Optimum reserves? You should demo one. I demo'd an optimum 176 this summer. I've never flown a reserve or even a 7 cell before, so I have nothing to compare it to. It's nothing like my sabre 2 for sure, but I was able to get within 10' of the peas so it's pretty controllable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skydivesg 6 #9 February 10, 2015 Hi Professor. I made about 20 jumps on an OP 143 (as a main) when first they came out. The canopy is not just a PDR with low bulk material. It's a completely different plan form. As others have remarked, it flies much better and has a very powerful flair as compared to any other reserve I've flown (which is quite a list). The fact that you can put a size bigger reserve into a pack tray designed for a smaller canopy is just one more plus. I've had three actual cutaways on the OP 143 since then and they were all uneventful openings and landings. In an effort for full disclosure - I am now sponsored by PD. But if I weren't - I would still be jumping the OP 143 as my reserve. My son has one he uses as a main when he is jumping on anything bigger than a 40 way.Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #10 February 10, 2015 one ride on a 126 @1.5 or so.. swoops better than my safire2; loved the ride, cant imagine a reserve to fly any better than that, but my experience is very limited, so.. i'd totally recommend it. also on the plus side, it's the only reserve in ORANGE, which actually kinda did influence my decision back then a bit.. fashion victim! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
betzilla 56 #11 February 10, 2015 Hiya John, I had one customer who wanted to switch back to a PDR 113 after using his OP 126. I think the softness of the opening (softness, not slowness. They don't open 'slow') kind of gave him the willies. Everyone else I've spoken to who has firsthand experience flying OP's is very happy with both the opening characteristics and the flight characteristics. As a rigger, there's no reserve I'd rather pack. I'll probably upsize from my PDR 126 to an OP143 when my ship comes in :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 54 #12 February 10, 2015 betzillaI had one customer who wanted to switch back to a PDR 113 after using his OP 126. I think the softness of the opening (softness, not slowness. They don't open 'slow') kind of gave him the willies. Snivelly Optimum opening made a difference here (for worse...): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1TMqJLk4U8 http://www.deepseed.com/d-spot/blog/liam/inside-no-pull-cypres-save-0 ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quagmirian 40 #13 February 10, 2015 SkydivesgThe canopy is not just a PDR with low bulk material. It's a completely different plan form.I'm pretty sure the planform is exactly the same. It'll be other things they've changed like line trim, airfoil/panel shape etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #14 February 10, 2015 I've rode opt 143 twice. Needless to say that it landed much better than my Smart 120 that I rode twice, given the same pack volume. One opened soft and the other opened fast. I've packed both of the reserve so they were packed in same manner, one that opened soft was packed within a 6 month frame, and the other faster opening was packed in the tray for almost 2 years. I think it really depended on how fast I was spinning under my main, one chop that opened slow(fresher pack job) didn't have much spin at all and the other one that opened fast(old pack job) I was spinning very fast. Both of the cutaways had RSL. Both slow and fast one opened within reasonable altitude I felt like. After both cutaway I was able to hang on to my breaks long enough to spot where my freebag landed. Both times the main were still inflated so I landed before the main did. The decent rate still felt fast even the size was 143. When I was hanging on breaks I still felt like the decent rate was similar to Smart 120 hanging on breaks. Maybe thin material makes the air escape through the fabric more??? However, the flair power was much better on Opt 143, given that it has way longer flair stroke and it flairs similar to normal main canopy. Pdr 143 and Op 160, both are big ass canopy imo. I'd only buy Opt 160 at that size for ease of packing then anything else.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,903 #15 February 10, 2015 Soft opening, hard ground.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #16 February 11, 2015 skydiverek Snivelly Optimum opening made a difference here (for worse...): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1TMqJLk4U8 http://www.deepseed.com/d-spot/blog/liam/inside-no-pull-cypres-save-0 Without real data to show that they do open too slow it's really hard to say. PD has probably done more testing than all their competitors combined. The same PDR design has stayed in production so long because of careful design and extensive testing. The incident filmed isn't even a smoking gun against the optimum. How was it packed? Did the PC get a good launch? Is the exact cypres firing altitude known? In a single incident there are too many unknowns. You need a careful statistical analysis of multiple reserve openings to draw _ANY_ conclusion. Not 1, not 2. Dozens. Opening softer can simply mean the peak opening force is lower as the force is better distributed over the entire opening time. I've had a 800' snivel on my katana that ended in a bang. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,903 #17 February 11, 2015 QuoteThe same PDR design has stayed in production so long because of careful design and extensive testing. Most of what you say is absolutely true. But the above does not apply to the Optimum. They are not the same as PDRs. My vote is for a PDR with harder openings (note, I said harder, not faster) and I put less importance on having a flare that mimics a 9 cell main. But I do like packing Optimums, they have the feel of really nice lingerie. Take that anyway you like!Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #18 February 11, 2015 for me, while MEL refuses to pack anything with an OP reserve in it, I would not buy one. I would go with the tried and true PDR. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
degeneration 5 #19 February 11, 2015 RMURRAYfor me, while MEL refuses to pack anything with an OP reserve in it, I would not buy one. I would go with the tried and true PDR. Why does she refuse to pack anything with an OP? Asking as I have an Op, and want to know more about the negative side of my kit.Sky Switches - Affordable stills camera tongue switches and conversion adaptors, supporting various brands of camera (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mxk 1 #20 February 11, 2015 degeneration ***for me, while MEL refuses to pack anything with an OP reserve in it, I would not buy one. I would go with the tried and true PDR. Why does she refuse to pack anything with an OP? Asking as I have an Op, and want to know more about the negative side of my kit. He A bit of searching turned up the following threads: Reserve characteristics? Reserve PC design: fabric to mesh ratio? Who's raised their CYPRES 2 firing altitude? The main issue seems to be compatibility with the Cypres. The Optimum has a longer snivel, which may be too long for the default firing altitude of ~750 ft. MEL, if you're reading this, is that the main reason why you refuse the pack the Optimum or would you not pack it in any configuration? I've ordered mine (235) before learning this and it should arrive any day now. I'll be using it with a Vigil 2+, which is set to fire when reading 1,100 ft (840 actual when belly to earth). Your thoughts on this combination? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CCGV19 0 #21 February 11, 2015 I have one ride on a 193 Optimum Reserve. Much bigger than what you are looking for but when I started the pack volume was a big contender. It was a very easy to fly and I landed exactly where I wanted to. For me I think about a reserve as my oh shit I need to bail or worse case that I may be unconscious and my vigil fired and now I am going to be under this. So I chose a size larger and their optimism. The best advice would be at a demo have them hook one up in your main D bag and then you can fly it without it being an emergency. If not then take mine and others advice that it is a great canopy! You will love it as a reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pms07 3 #22 February 12, 2015 John, I have several jumps on a OP 143 set up as a main and one actual reserve ride. I'm a huge fan of the OP and think it is a great choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #23 February 12, 2015 it is all there in the earlier discussions. It all has to do with some (I believe still) unanswered questions... "A larger reserve ain't worth a dime if it does not inflate before you impact. I refer you to my earlier post also. MEL" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #24 February 12, 2015 gowlerkQuoteThe same PDR design has stayed in production so long because of careful design and extensive testing. Most of what you say is absolutely true. But the above does not apply to the Optimum. They are not the same as PDRs. My vote is for a PDR with harder openings (note, I said harder, not faster) and I put less importance on having a flare that mimics a 9 cell main. But I do like packing Optimums, they have the feel of really nice lingerie. Take that anyway you like! Is there any real evidence that the Optimum was not properly tested? Is there any real evidence that the optimums do snivel? They did get a TSO so you'd need to look at the testing info for real numbers, not the inexact science of looking at a crater in the ground. There have been a few reports but don't forget that correlation does not mean causation. There is another thread about AAD units not firing consistently at the right altitude. There are other discussions about reserves being packed into small rigs too tightly. Any of these could also be the cause. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,903 #25 February 12, 2015 hackish***QuoteThe same PDR design has stayed in production so long because of careful design and extensive testing. Most of what you say is absolutely true. But the above does not apply to the Optimum. They are not the same as PDRs. My vote is for a PDR with harder openings (note, I said harder, not faster) and I put less importance on having a flare that mimics a 9 cell main. But I do like packing Optimums, they have the feel of really nice lingerie. Take that anyway you like! Is there any real evidence that the Optimum was not properly tested? Is there any real evidence that the optimums do snivel? They did get a TSO so you'd need to look at the testing info for real numbers, not the inexact science of looking at a crater in the ground. There have been a few reports but don't forget that correlation does not mean causation. There is another thread about AAD units not firing consistently at the right altitude. There are other discussions about reserves being packed into small rigs too tightly. Any of these could also be the cause. -Michael I did not claim that Optimums were not adequately tested. I'm merely pointing out that the length of time the PDR has been in production, and it's excellent record, does not apply to the Optimum. In other words, you can not judge one by the record of the other. I would both jump and pack Optimums, but I'd rather jump a PDR myself. Optimums are optimized for characteristics that I place less value on. Namely less harsh openings, especially at the higher airspeeds that can be encountered doing freefly jumps, and for a flare that is more like a typical modern main. These are design decisions that are compromises like all must be. You give up something to get a different performance profile. To get the powerful flare you need greater airspeed and descent speed. Some people suspect that to get the gentler opening some opening time must be traded off. I admit that I don't know for sure. But it seems logical, and as far as I know PD neither confirms nor denies it. As a 57 year old belly flier, with experience flying older 7 cells, I prefer a different set of design features. But I am not discouraging others from using Optimums. I trust in PD's ability and integrity to produce certificated canopies that meet the TSO requirements. But within those specs some designs can have different strengths over others.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
