Barrel roll during track?

[DougH 270]

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A barrel roll means a 360 degree roll of all your body.

No shit, 360???!!! Really?

I wonder why BillVon, and all of the rest of these other experinced jumpers with thousands of combined jumps don't jump with mirrors?

I would rather track my ass of then waste a thousand feet trying to scan the air with a mirror!!!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[johnny1488 1]

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Say you track to 2,500 feet, do a quick barrel-roll to check your air above you. Then see someone is actually there?

What do you do then?

I pull at 3500 to begin with. Then if i see someone tracking in my direction, i adjust my direction if i need to. On a lot of jumps i start my track on my back to do this first.

Bottom line is if you aren't comfortable doing it, dont.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[stratostar 5]

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I wonder why BillVon, and all of the rest of these other experinced jumpers with thousands of combined jumps don't jump with mirrors?

Well we're not really allowed to tell people this, but "we"(all the really cool kids) use the "joe cool" bicycle clip on rearviews on our goggles, just don't let anyone know I told ya, or they take my union card.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[trigger 0]

Not directed at anyone.
I'm a barrel roller,when i feel it is necessary to check my airspace at break off and at pull time.
I don't believe a higher jumper would necessarily spot a lower jumper,peps just generally seem to take their horizon/heading and track like a mofo blissfully unaware a the lower jumper doing exactly the same thing.
Wrist mount mirrors i simply find laughable,they're pre-summingly tiny and if not directed where they need to be directed propably about as much use as knickers on fish.
Where as a higher jumper,i believe does stand out very well against a cler blue sky.
Some say barrel rolling is'Dangarous' well so is skydiving so i say stay on the ground
Some say only if you're proficient at it,so lets encourage people to work on the skills which may save their ass,including good tracking skills although as previously stated if you have two good trackers at different levels what good wil it do if the jumpers havn't spotted one another.
Guess we all need eyes up our arses......

.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

[MakeItHappen 15]

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You must suck real bad at TBR's, isn't that why you didn't get slot on the 400 way?.

Just for the record I did have a slot on the 400-way. I turned it down.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[stratostar 5]

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I turned it down.

Can't say as I blame Ya, all those people barrel rolling on break off and all......

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[aguila 0]

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Wrist mount mirrors i simply find laughable

I respect your huge experience but I bet you have never experienced how those mirrors work. Have you?

Gonzalo

It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

[Legs 0]

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about as much use as knickers on fish.

heee heee I think that solves the problem. Every one wears a wrist mounted fish with knickers on, and if you collide at deployment you throw your fish at each other. The knickers are just to maintain their modesty.

With love in Christ

[trigger 0]

Absolutely right as i don't own joe90 magnifying goggles,knickers on fish are definately safer and more reliable than the micro mirrors you suggest,i bet you've never tried those or honing your barrel rolls

.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

[aguila 0]

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Absolutely right as i don't own joe90 magnifying goggles,knickers on fish are definately safer and more reliable than the micro mirrors you suggest,i bet you've never tried those or honing your barrel rolls

I respect your expertise on not doing things.

Gonzalo

It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

[DougH 270]

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I respect your expertise on not doing things.

Shouldn't you be looking down for the tandems you are about to collide with, instead of spending time looking at that mirror...

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[aguila 0]

Should you read what the USPA says about exit order and Tandems. Your expertise on not doing things is only overriden by the absolute value of your intelligence

Excuse me! I could not help it LOL

Gonzalo

It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

[trigger 0]

Correction: i do "do" things - i barrel roll;
looking out for the higher jumper who's on a collision course with me because the're too busy looking at themselves in a mirror

.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

[C00KIE 0]

Barrel rolls are an excellent skill to have in your 'survival tool box'. I've been using them for wingsuit dives and it's paid-off big time. There is absolutely no reason or excuse, in my mind, WHY anyone should be against performing this sort of maneuver, if the occasion warrants. And wingsuits are like one big mega track, right? Well, it's really relevant to check what's going on around you, and above in even the most 'powered' tracks.
My advice is, if you cannot perform this move with confidence, go up and LEARN IT. It will only take you one or two solo's and you'll have it nailed and you may well thank yourself one day.
I have to say - the mirror idea is damn whacky. You can't go around risking your life AND (more importantly) OTHER PEOPLE'S on a piece of equipment, especially as stooopid as a bloody mirror stuck on your alti...

Life is a four letter word!

[icevideot 0]

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There is absolutely no reason or excuse, in my mind, WHY anyone should be against performing this sort of maneuver,

I am opposed to encouraging very low time jumpers to do this. They are still perfecting an effective and relatively straight track. If they are with a medium sized group and veer off heading very much it is asking for trouble. Not to mention shortening a track that is usually fairly short to begin with.

What if someone is below you and you miss their wave off during your barrel roll? There are a lot of variables here and I have no reason to doubt you when you say it is warranted in the situations you described but I don't think it is something everyone should start doing. I feel it is safer to track harder and carefully scan ahead and below you for unexpected company. I do teach to look over each shoulder as you are waving but it is a fairly quick glance.

Your mileage may vary.

"... this ain't a Nerf world."

[billvon 2,396]

>Your expertise on not doing things is only overriden by the
>absolute value of your intelligence

Do NOT use this forum for cute insults.

[billvon 2,396]

>There is absolutely no reason or excuse, in my mind, WHY anyone
>should be against performing this sort of maneuver, if the occasion warrants.

1) Most people cannot barrel roll at the same horizontal speed/vertical speed that they can flat track. Thus, you are giving up distance for a manuever.

2) Many people will turn a bit as they are barrel rolling. And even if they correct afterwards, that can screw someone above them trying to "split the difference" between them and a third jumper.

3) Newer jumpers are at risk of pulling unstable if the last manuever before they wave off and pull is a barrel roll.

4) The high person is responsible for ensuring he is not over a lower person on breakoff. If you are barrel rolling you are not looking down.

5) (purely practical) If you do this on most bigways you'll get axed due to the danger it poses to other jumpers. It's like deciding you want to sitfly the approach - might be fun for you, but it endangers other jumpers.

>It will only take you one or two solo's and you'll have it nailed . . .

It takes WAY more than "one or two solos" to be able to barrel roll during a max track without affecting track, vertical speed and/or horizontal speed. If it takes someone only a jump or two before they think they have it nailed, they're doing it wrong.

[kallend 1,623]

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5) (purely practical) If you do this on most bigways you'll get axed due to the danger it poses to other jumpers. It's like deciding you want to sitfly the approach - might be fun for you, but it endangers other jumpers.

AMEN to that.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Tonto 1]

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If you're the fastest flattest tracker out there; why would you need to look for others over you?

Agreed.

My function when tracking is to track as fast, far and flat as I can. That takes all my effort.

There must be trust in this sport. Why do we beleive we won't be taken out while in the formation but may be taken out on deployment?If we are jumping with people of such low competance that they can out track us and still have awareness so low they cannot see below them, then we have made many errors before even getting on the plane.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[kkeenan 13]

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...I bet you have never experienced how those mirrors work. Have you?

Some things just seem like a sucky idea even without trying them. This is one of those ideas. This is not directed at you personally, but I share the opinion that this is an impractical solution. It has been my experience that newer jumpers, in their enthusiasm for improvement, are constantly thinking up innovative skydiving gear. It is this same lack of experience that prevents them from seeing the flaws in some of these ideas. In just the short time that DZ.com has been around, we have heard from Noobs suggesting electronic cutaway systems, airbag jumpsuits, etc. I'm afraid that the freefall rear-view mirror falls into this category.

P.S. Stratostar thinks his little bicycle mirrors are cool, but we're all laughing at him behind his back.

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[stratostar 5]

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P.S. Stratostar thinks his little bicycle mirrors are cool, but we're all laughing at him behind his back

Oh now you did it, just tell everyone why don't ya, now their going to revoke my union card.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[ozzy13 0]

I was reading threw this tread. The first question I have is Why do most and I say most ,people that have thousands of jumps forget that there jump count was at one at sometime in the past . I get the feeling from reading this web site that there are alot of Sky gods out there. I THINK that people forget that we are all skydivesrs and the only stupid question is the one that is not asked. I know that everyone has opinions .If it makes someone safer in the sky then why cant it be answered without sarcasm!!!!!

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[trigger 0]

You're right.
but i honestly don't believe anyone takes the quips personally
But on a more positive note i think the 'sarcasm' does add fire to a debate ,pushing people to defend their opinions

.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

[hookitt 0]

Many old dogs forget that new dogs aren't stupid. (gerneralization on both parts)

Some ideas aren't that great but at least they are ideas. I'm positive the mirror trick isn't effective. It's not a dumb idea and eventually aguila will know this but still, it's not dumb.

A person can say a barrel roll is dumb (queue the old dogs). I do them. I don't do them all the time but if the situation calls for it. You better believe it.

My ability to do them effectively does not reflect whether I suggest performing one or not. I don't expect people online to know or even believe that I can do them quickly effectively and safely. Chances are I've already out tracked you so you won't even see it

On a large belly formation, I see no reason to do one (talking about me, not the "collective" you) unless I just tracked away from a funnel at or near break off.

Different situations call for different measures. Naturally it takes experience (and competency ... see this ==> thread).

Carry on

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Pulse 0]

I like to do my barrel-rolls on exit!

"Any language where the unassuming word fly signifies an annoying insect, a means of travel, and a critical part of a gentleman's apparel is clearly asking to be mangled."