kkeenan 13 #1 January 22, 2015 Looking at a 2003 Mirage G3 harness, the way the bottom of the lower main lift web terminates at the hip ring is interesting. The section is made from a loop of Type VIII webbing with the ends joined by WW stitch. The stitch pattern is centered where it passes through the hip ring slot and folded flat, with a confluence wrap sewn around just above the ring to hold the folded webbing in place. I'm no harness designer, so I'm wondering how other manufacturers handle design of the main lift web between the rings. Are there detailed drawings available to riggers showing original construction specs to check a harness for modifications or repairs? Kevin K. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 55 #2 January 22, 2015 Check here: http://www.google.pl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faa.gov%2Fregulations_policies%2Fhandbooks_manuals%2Faircraft%2Fmedia%2Ffaa-h-8083-17.pdf&ei=BAnBVMe6KZKeyASp-YKIAg&usg=AFQjCNHHwqTqeLsP56K98pt4zvIqPxLx9A&sig2=cSqj8Zgi3EoJwc3xsAXVRg&bvm=bv.83829542,d.aWw Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 13 #3 January 22, 2015 Thanks. Good reference. Do you know if the actual harness construction drawings are required by FAA for the TSO paperwork? And, if so, is that available to the public? I'm pretty sure most manufacturers do not release their drawings. Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #4 January 22, 2015 Just for the record, that's their normal construction on their multi ring harness. I think it's stupid. No one else does it that way. On the other hand it's never failed so theirs that. But I was also astonished when I first saw that design. LeeLee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 31 #5 January 22, 2015 RiggerLeeJust for the record, that's their normal construction on their multi ring harness. I think it's stupid. No one else does it that way. On the other hand it's never failed so theirs that. But I was also astonished when I first saw that design. Lee It's build that way, so you can build very short MLW ( as short as 13") for very small jumper and still have enough space for the reserve and the cutaway handles. Other manufacturers use separate pockets sewn over the webbing, to cover the 4 point stitch to achieve the same. They all work fine. I hope user Jeffrey steps in here and tell his story. Cheers"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #6 January 22, 2015 Hi Kevin, QuoteDo you know if the actual harness construction drawings are required by FAA for the TSO paperwork? The FAA requires the submission of the 'specifications' when making an application for a TSO. They give no other guidelines as to what these 'specifications' are. This is just another case of the FAA not knowing anything about what they are charged with regulating, i.e., the parachute industry. Gary Douris once told me that his 'specifications' that he submitted to the FAA for his Amigo reserve canopy was a floppy disc. The FAA had no idea as to what they were supposed to do with it. I spent 30 yrs working for the US gov't. and when my agency required the submission of any documents, we informed the contractors exactly as to what we expected. If it was drawings, we told them the exact size that the drawings had to be, what information that we required, what details must be submitted, etc, etc. The FAA does none of that. And I do believe that you can get the info from the FAA under the Freedom of Information Act. Just my $0.02 for today, Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 13 #7 January 22, 2015 JerryBaumchen And I do believe that you can get the info from the FAA under the Freedom of Information Act. Thanks, Jerry. In my work as a govt. contractor, I, too, was used to very well-defined specs. Since the FAA has such loose requirements, the submissions may be just as loose, such as, "Sew here". So whatever came from a FOIA request might be worthless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alexg3265 0 #8 January 23, 2015 My wife just bought a used G4 and I was convinced that someone had altered the length of thee mlw after the fact. It's sure ghetto rigged looking. For a min I was actually telling her, I'm not assembling or packing this till mirage checks it out..... I live in Deland so it's a 5 min drive :) Then I looked at other mirages, and just thought, who's fucking terrible design was this?! Making the mlw able to be shorter is a plus I guess, but fuck, the whole rest of the container is pretty and clean looking, then you have this fucked looking fold and tape wrapped around it. There's got to be a better way.... Edit to add: couldn't they just take a wider tape and cover that damn hot knifed, raw edge, hanging out, looking like shit?I was that kid jumping out if his tree house with a bed sheet. My dad wouldn't let me use the ladder to try the roof... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #9 January 24, 2015 That Mirage MLW stitch pattern looks weird, but it works. I have never heard of any of them failing. It is a 3 inch long WMW pattern sewn with 5 cord, pretty common in the parachute industry. The only unusual thing about it is that is wrapped around a piece of hardware after it is sewn. Get over it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #10 January 24, 2015 I always thought it was a rather clever solution to save space. And whether there's any loss of strength for whatever reason you didn't think of, well, that's why you put things into a pull test machine to check your new design. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #11 January 24, 2015 Can anyone post some pictures? It's been a long time since I saw a Mirage, and I never looked very closely on it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 13 #12 January 24, 2015 pchapman...that's why you put things into a pull test machine to check your new design. Conversation with Mirage indicated that it had been pull-tested to 7k+ lbs._____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 31 #13 January 24, 2015 HellisCan anyone post some pictures? It's been a long time since I saw a Mirage, and I never looked very closely on it The second picture http://miragesys.com/products/mirage-g4/harness-styles/"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #14 January 24, 2015 Here are a couple of more detailed photos from one of my rigs... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alexg3265 0 #15 January 30, 2015 Ok my post may have been a little harsh... Sorry about that... Long day. This is what I looked at and wondered... And I understand it's more than strong enough, call me superficial, but the rest of the container is just so sexy inside and out...I was that kid jumping out if his tree house with a bed sheet. My dad wouldn't let me use the ladder to try the roof... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #16 January 30, 2015 Okay, the stitching on your Mirage may not be quite as pretty as most Mirages, but all the stitches penetrate all the correct webbing. That joint is plenty strong enough to support your weight. You have more important things to worry about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
