Which canopy to choose next

[cetti 0]

Aloha Folks, need your opinion

Actually i'm jumping a 168 Pilot - i've done 250 jumps with it during the last two years and joined 3 canopy piloting courses during that time. i've done all the stuff like downwind & crosswind landings, backriser landings,... and at the moment i manage to land more or less every jump within 10 meters. but now i'm stock a bit... the canopy is great, nice openings and very stable flights. but if you want to go a bit faster it's all over this thing just wants to fly straight - speeding it up ist almost impossible, i can hold it only for 2-3 seconds in the frontrisers for a dive (no i'm not weak) - it's just the limitation of the chute i guess. Even the expert from Flight1 said: dude, you need a smaller canopy...

So now i'm in the downsitzing question. My actual wingload ist 1.27. So with my little experience of total 360 jumps the stepdown to 150 would be reasonable, not more. i've visited all the manufacturers homepages and read the discriptions of the canopies but it's hard to choose the right one. and since it's winter time over there will be no option to test jump different canopies within the next months.
but which chute make sense in that case? Again a Pilot with the same flight characteristics or something else which flies a bit more agile. i mean i'll not try to become the super swooper, i'm too old for that
thx in advance

[RiggerLee 61]

You're not ready to down size till you stop calling it a "chute".

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[cetti 0]

RiggerLee

You're not ready to down size till you stop calling it a "chute".

Lee

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Sounds like you might be ready to downsize, but you said a couple things that make me think otherwise.

Reasons supporting your downsize:
-You seem to be pretty current
-You have a decent number of jumps
-You want more out of your canopy
-You have taken multiple canopy piloting courses

Reasons not to downsize:
-You can't front riser
-You're already at nearly 1.3 wingload
-You're downsizing into a much higher wingload
-Dude from the Flight1 course said you should

So, here's my take. First, call it what you want, chute, rig, parachute whatever. Moot point. Second, you're already at 1.3 wingloading, which gives you an exit weight of about 220lbs. That gives you a 1.48 wingload on a 150. That's a big jump. You have MUCH to learn on that Pilot instead of downsizing. I've jumped a Pilot 170 and I thought the riser pressure was surprisingly light in comparison to my Spectre. It's time to build some muscle...seriously. People swoop canopies with much higher riser pressure than your Pilot (not competitively, but they can and do). Third, as a Canadian, downsizing over winter is one of the less intelligent decisions you can make. First jump back after a 6 month break is on a smaller, faster canopy that you have never flown before and you are uncurrent. Sounds like a recipe for a broken femur!

Anyways, I'm guessing that you've probably already made your decision, but just make sure you consider all the angles.

Have you thought about just moving to another canopy of the same size? Sabre 2 maybe? 170's have a great resale value because a tonne of jumpers fly them. You could probably flat out trade someone for a Sabre2, put 50 jumps on it and then downsize if you still think it's not good for swooping.

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[HUPRA 0]

Hey Cetti, what sort of approach are you doing? If it is double fronts and you are confident with them maybe speak to your canopy coach about working on 90s?
As for different types of canopy, try a Sabre 2 or a Safire 2.

[shift 0]

I would recommend a Sabre2. Preferably a 170 before you drop to a 150. As said, you dont want to come back front a winter break and downsize right away. Im about your same wingload, 215-220 exit on a 170 and I can hold double fronts all day long, so Im not sure why a Pilot would be that different. If you want more speed, you should talk to a coach about doing double front approaches, then transition into carving 90s etc.

My 170 is considered a boat in the super swooper world but Im still able to build some pretty good speed with it.

[Joellercoaster 6]

Assuming downsizing is actually what you should do (for whatever values of "should"), definitely demo a Pilot 150. I am about the same weight as you and felt like the difference from a 168 was dramatic (more so than 188 to 168 had been).

Try a Safire2 149 and Sabre2 150 as well - they all fly and land a bit differently; now that you have some jumps, your feeling for the differences will have evolved and so might your taste (or it might not - I started on a Pilot and still have one in my second rig, it's on its second reline ).

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[DocPop 1]

Joellercoaster

Assuming downsizing is actually what you should do (for whatever values of "should"), definitely demo a Pilot 150. I am about the same weight as you and felt like the difference from a 168 was dramatic (more so than 188 to 168 had been).

Try a Safire2 149 and Sabre2 150 as well - they all fly and land a bit differently; now that you have some jumps, your feeling for the differences will have evolved and so might your taste (or it might not - I started on a Pilot and still have one in my second rig, it's on its second reline ).

This is the sensible answer.

Beg, borrow or steal different models to try. Nobody (not even the internet people) can tell you what you will like the best so jump everything appropriate to your skill level that you can lay your hands on.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[stayhigh 2]

I'm done with my dinner and I'm wondering, should I eat the cake first? or should I go for the pie? Ohhhhh, what about cookies?

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[justme12001 0]

Also keep in mind, that just because you downsize, it doesn't necessarily mean that the riser pressure is going to go down dramatically!.

Maybe work on technique. How are you starting your double fronts? Braked approach, straight to fronts?

[cetti 0]

i tried several ways: straight approach, stay in the brakes with the toggles and then let it go und pull down the front risers.. then i tried to brake it with the rear toggles and move into a 90° with releasing just one side... yes it takes up Speed but almost impossible to hold it for 4-5 seconds in that position.

an no i'm not weak, 4 times a week in gym should be enough


an no, the plan is not downsize or change canopy directly after winter time. i'll be in Dubai for two weeks during february so i'll be able to jump my canopy and continue practising. if Pablo is there i might do another canopy course. maybe there's a chance to jump a demo but i haven't seen that some of the manufacturers are around during that time.
my plan was to change my canopy during spring after having done several jumps with my Pilot - and not a direct Switch.

[cetti 0]

stayhigh

I'm done with my dinner and I'm wondering, should I eat the cake first? or should I go for the pie? Ohhhhh, what about cookies?

apple pie for sure dude

[chuckakers 417]

The question isn't what to downsize to, but whether to downsize at all.

Do you have a reason for wanting more performance or do you believe you should downsize because you see others doing it?

Before downsizing I suggest you consider all the changes you will face and not just the changes you seek. When you downsize you will do more than increase forward speed and overall performance. You will also:

- reduce available reaction and maneuvering time when avoiding a collision with canopies and obstacles

- increase altitude loss during maneuvers, including those performed at low altitude

- experience greater dynamic forces and more rapid loss of altitude during malfunctions

- reduce the time and distance to getting mentally "boxed in"

- increase the risk of injury during all landings

- reduce "hang time" that brings you home from a long spot

- decrease the amount of nylon overhead during worst case "land what ya got" scenarios

The list could go on and on. The point is that many jumpers don't consider all the things that will change when downsizing. The truth is we only need a wing loading sufficient to generate enough forward speed to penetrate jump-worthy winds. Performance beyond that is performance for performance sake. Extra performance isn't a bad thing. Just understand that in most cases it's not necessary and in all cases it increases risk.

In all my years of skydiving I have never met a single person that got hurt or killed because they didn't downsize.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[erdnarob 1]

IMO, at 360 jumps and three canopy piloting courses, you are ready to jump a Sabre 2-150. A Sabre 2-150 has an actual size of probably 160-165 like many other PD canopies are. You will not see that much difference for the weight support. The Sabre 2-150 will give you more speed, a better flare than the Pilot 170. The pitch angle of a Pilot is 15.06 degrees while the Sabre has 15.34 which makes it going down a bit faster.
Just be careful, fly it conservatively and maybe it would be a good idea for few jumps to get monitored from the ground in order to start flaring at the right time (10 second still straight forward, sweet spot to finished with full brakes). An important thing, when flaring stay symetrical with toggles.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[djerbist1 0]

Try a Safire2 149 and Sabre2 150

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