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YvonneWiggers

UPT semi stowless bag and linewear

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So one rigger tells me that I shouldn't get a semi stowless bag because it will wear out my lines faster, but another rigger tells me it won't cause any (extra) wear.

I get how it's not ideal to have the lines rubbing past each other every opening but will this friction wear out my (vectran) lines significantly faster?
"So I jump out, look up, and think 'Oh SHIT!...

It's PINK!!!'"
- army guy after his first staticline jump

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I'm no rigger so feel free to ignore this. But logically, with bungee stows, at the bungee the lines in the bight not only rub past each other but are tightly squeezed against each other by the stow as they rub, so the wear effect would be accentuated. In a semi stowless the lines are not pressed against each other. Logically, stows would wear them faster than semi stowless. But I have evidence either way.
Rich M

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YvonneWiggers

So one rigger tells me that I shouldn't get a semi stowless bag because it will wear out my lines faster, but another rigger tells me it won't cause any (extra) wear.

I get how it's not ideal to have the lines rubbing past each other every opening but will this friction wear out my (vectran) lines significantly faster?



I have see plenty of stowless bags in use and have never heard of a pattern of premature line wear. If you are in doubt, call UPT. If there have been any issues they will know about them.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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I can't rule out that line wear might be a little higher with a semi-stowless bag, even if generally I haven't heard of major problems. But I also need to see more evidence.

In a semi stowless bag there's little line contact against itself, except the major case of the lines all going to the far end of the pocket when one starts, so each bight slides past those upper lines. Maybe at least as significant is that the lines are being compressed between nylon layers and rub against them as they are pulled rapidly out. I think UPT still uses a cotton buffer right at the center mouth of the pouch but most other companies don't bother.

With rubber bands, as RichM pointed out, lines rub on themselves at the bights. (And rubber itself being so grippy might cause wear -- remember how elastic bands that people put on harness rings caused UPT to issue a bulletin because it was wearing the harness. Still, because elastic bands used as stows are able to twist and flip, maybe the wear of the line against elastic is actually negligible.)

Just anecdotally I used a home-made semi stowless bag along with vectran lines and went really long on a couple line sets without an perceivable issue.

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My openings are better with the semi-stowless bags. One of the things I attribute this to is that the bag isn't being moved around every time it gets to a new bight in the rubber bands. My un-scientific guess is that there is more friction every time it rips out of a rubber band than when the stows extract out of a semi-stowless' pouch because the stows in the pouch are not under any real pressure. Whether or not my guess is accurate, I have seen no additional wear on my lines or anyone else's.



YvonneWiggers

So one rigger tells me that I shouldn't get a semi stowless bag because it will wear out my lines faster, but another rigger tells me it won't cause any (extra) wear.

I get how it's not ideal to have the lines rubbing past each other every opening but will this friction wear out my (vectran) lines significantly faster?

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Translation from British English: "bungee" = rubber band in North America.

In North America, "bungee cord" is the cloth (nylon or cotton) wrapped rubber cords used to close free-bags. A few skydivers also use bungee cord to close their main deployment bags because bungee cord lasts ten times longer than bare rubber.

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I love my UPT bag. Any stow less bag will have locking stows. The 2 locking stows double stowed help make the openings better then a magnet (insert rigger's comment on why magnet bags are bad, I believe it's the way magnets come apart and the way the bag deploys the magnets don't come apart properly and things can get stuck). This bag makes my opening so consistent every time bc that bag gets pulled straight off your back with a bunch of force not being interrupted by other stows. When the bag gets to the end of the lines it quickly rips apart those locking stows so fast that the parachute comes straight out of the bag every time. Whereas if you had a regular bag the parachute could come out all distorted from the stows swaying the bag as it comes off ones back. I did tests when I had to borrow another rig without a stowless. The parachute would inflate sometimes off heading, in line twists, or not inflate from the center cell first bc the way it came out of the bag. I was also having hard opening bc of this phenomena 1/3 openings. I put my stowless bag on this rig and wallah no more stupid openings! :)p
Ps there is no such thing as a fully stowless bag. Get UPTs they've done so much research on theirs and there is a reason they don't use magnets. My .002 hope this helps

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magnetic dbags dont use rubber bands its one of the best things about them...if u like rubber bands go a normal bag...if u are like most people and hate rubber bands get a magnetic bag i know heaps of people with them who like them....why go semi stowless and still have rubber bands that annoy the shit out of u.....the problem is still there plus u still have to figure 8 the lines etc
FTMC

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NvyZero

I love my UPT bag. Any stow less bag will have locking stows. The 2 locking stows double stowed help make the openings better then a magnet (insert rigger's comment on why magnet bags are bad, I believe it's the way magnets come apart and the way the bag deploys the magnets don't come apart properly and things can get stuck). This bag makes my opening so consistent every time bc that bag gets pulled straight off your back with a bunch of force not being interrupted by other stows. When the bag gets to the end of the lines it quickly rips apart those locking stows so fast that the parachute comes straight out of the bag every time. Whereas if you had a regular bag the parachute could come out all distorted from the stows swaying the bag as it comes off ones back. I did tests when I had to borrow another rig without a stowless. The parachute would inflate sometimes off heading, in line twists, or not inflate from the center cell first bc the way it came out of the bag. I was also having hard opening bc of this phenomena 1/3 openings. I put my stowless bag on this rig and wallah no more stupid openings! :)p
Ps there is no such thing as a fully stowless bag. Get UPTs they've done so much research on theirs and there is a reason they don't use magnets. My .002 hope this helps





I have a stowless magnetic bag.
Look at pgasus website if you don't believe me either.
:P

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No magnetic bags i have seen ever had rubber bands lol...thats just stupid as 99% of people covert to mag bag coz they hate rubber bands....upt version still sucks if thats the reason u dont like a standard style rubber band dbag? Does it not?
FTMC

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Yup.

I got a magnetic bag because I don't like rubberbands of several reasons.
Packing with them.
Replacing them.
And in my opinion, they are a weak link that can break and give you a bag strip.

I know it's also possible with magnetic bags to get bag strips, but at least I'm not dependent part that has to be replaced every now and then.
The magnets work if I pack it correct.

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Also worse part of the "semi stowless"(the name sez it all) bag is the first 1 or 2 ruber bands are the worst ones to break lol it sucks if u dont have a rubber band handy or anyone nearby to pass u one u just sit there holding it closed like a fuckwit wondering what to do....also the cunt breaks leaving a tight broken rubber band still hanging on the dbag
FTMC

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skez

Also worse part of the "semi stowless"(the name sez it all) bag is the first 1 or 2 ruber bands are the worst ones to break



That's why I use Tube Stoes that last for hundreds of jumps, as the locking stows on my semi-stowless bag.

Anyway, anyone still have comments on the original topic of line wear with semi-stowless bags, rather then a discussion of choice of bag type? It's like a bag measuring contest in here...

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pchapman

***Also worse part of the "semi stowless"(the name sez it all) bag is the first 1 or 2 ruber bands are the worst ones to break



That's why I use Tube Stoes that last for hundreds of jumps, as the locking stows on my semi-stowless bag.

Anyway, anyone still have comments on the original topic of line wear with semi-stowless bags, rather then a discussion of choice of bag type? It's like a bag measuring contest in here...

So just use tube stows on a normal bag and be done with it lol and yeh way off topic i just started this because someone who doesnt know shit from clay...informed people that all stowless bags actually do have stows/rubber bands when clearly they dont.... the reason his upt bag is called semi stowless is coz it still has rubber band stows and he didn't do research into magnetic bags that have ZERO rubber bands...yes im stirring the pot but i think people should know the proper facts before they make a decision and waste there money only to cry over rubber bands again like there old dbag
FTMC

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Quote

So one rigger tells me that I shouldn't get a semi stowless bag because it will wear out my lines faster



That's a specious argument. I totally love my UPT semi-stowless bag. It's faster to pack, my openings are more on-heading (not positive that's a bout the bag, though, as I tweaked my pack jobs a bit at about the same time I went stowless), and in about a hundred jumps with that bag, I think I had to replace a rubber band twice.

I've never heard of increased line wear with stowless bags, but I've seen a lot of increased happiness.

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skez

***

Anyway, anyone still have comments on the original topic of line wear with semi-stowless bags, rather then a discussion of choice of bag type? It's like a bag measuring contest in here...



... yeh way off topic i just started this because someone who doesnt know shit from clay... blah blah

Yes I get it skez, you have the biggest penis knowledge, good to know. :| I know there are bags without any rubber bands and I don't like them, if you want to know why you can send me a pm or start a new thread.

Back on topic. Has anyone else got anything to say on the damage/wear a semi (or fully, whatever) stowless bag could or could not do to lines? I can imagine lines sliding past themselves and the fabric of the bag at a decent speed does cause quite some friction. Whereas with a normal bag only short bights of lines 'slide' past the rubber bands, and I think it's more the rubber band rolling off anyway.

So far I only found this one thread from 2011 where a guy complains about the wear a semi stowless has on his (vectran) lines:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4090664
"So I jump out, look up, and think 'Oh SHIT!...

It's PINK!!!'"
- army guy after his first staticline jump

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Back on topic.....another type of person to ask is a base jumper base canopies use the same sorta figure 8 style in a tailpocket...but i dont have enough jumps on mine to notice much wear maybe someone who jumps base alot at terminal etc will know more.... ? Coz they really will keep an eye on there lines more unlike skydivers..well they should anyway lol
FTMC

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even a base rig uses a rubberband in the tailpocket, its called a locking stow.
just replace your fucking lines when they get worn.
pretty simple there.
the lines will be out of trim long before any wear from a semi stowless dbag will cause you problems.
Flock University FWC / ZFlock
B.A.S.E. 1580
Aussie BASE 121

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roostnureye

...
just replace your fucking lines when they get worn.
pretty simple there.
the lines will be out of trim long before any wear from a semi stowless dbag will cause you problems.



Vectran lines won't get out of trim before they get worn, and lines that do shrink easily might get out of trim faster because of any extra friction a semi stowless bag causes (which was kinda the whole point of this discussion). And yes of course I will be replacing my 'fucking lines' when they get worn but I'd rather that be at 500-600 jumps after reline than 300-400. :S

That said I haven't found much support for the theory of stowless bags causing extra wear so I'll probably go for a semi stowless on my new rig.
"So I jump out, look up, and think 'Oh SHIT!...

It's PINK!!!'"
- army guy after his first staticline jump

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