Static Line or AFF?

[sunnerl 0]

Hi skydivers! I hear so often about people doing a static line cours nowadays! But I have to say I can not understand why!! I did AFF last year and I was really happy to have two teachers next to me who told me immediately what is wrong and what is good. So I was able to fly a really good sitfly at my 20th jump. At static line - I think so - I really do not know too much about it - you have to jump out alone (!) and the chute is open. That is ok, but how can you learn to be good and relax in freefall when you have only 3, 5 or 6 seconds left? And no one is next to you so that you can think -ok I jump out - I am quite relaxed - someone is next to me holding me - nothing could happen. As I can remember at my level 7 we did saltis, tracking and playing "catch the teacher" in freefall. Can anyone tell me then why some DZ prefer static line?

[Katzeye 0]

There are a couple reasons I can think of off the top of my head to do SL. First, it's much less expensive than AFF. Second, when you learn canopy control first, it releases from anxiety from the freefall. When you do progress to freefall, you don't have to worry so much about the last half of the dive - landing your canopy, you already have the under control. Also, for some, freefall is not where it's at - just look at our extreme canopy pilots, they do hop-n-pops all the time. Also look at precision canopy control...
Just my $0.02. I'm sure there are other reasons for SL over freefall.

[Keys 0]

I agree with Katz on that, but I did a Tandem before starting AFF. I LOVED THE FREEFALL! I didn't even want to do my hop n pop Warp jump.
A year ago I would have said "GO AFF!", but after watching students do real crazy things under canopy it's probably safer to learn to work the canopy first. I like this new USPA program AFP or something.

[chronistin 0]

What I did was a combined Static Line / AFF course, i.e. 3 Static Line jumps & the whole AFF programm after that. The reason why they recommended it was that you don't have to learn 2 things at once, because you know a little about steering & landing a canopy before you progress to freefall.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

That is actually not a bad technique. The one place I know that does something like that puts the student through SL training until what would be his first ten-second delay, then does AFF Levels 4-7 from altitude. The benefit of that is the person is already comfortable with low-level exits and stability, plus has PROVEN that he is capable of pulling his/her own ripcord or hand-deploy. Also, his first several jumps were basically no-brainers where only exit stability and canopy control were critical. The final three one-Jumpmaster "AFF" levels taught the rest of the basics: turns, instability drills (flips, barrel rolls), diving exits, etc. In all, a much better-rounded program in my opinion, but not what is generally taught at most DZs.

Also, concerning body stability during a SL program: you are jumping with an Instructor, JM, or coach on every jump from your 15-second delay until completion of your 3rd "45" second delay so you get PLENTY of feedback. At Raeford, all your jumps which are designated 30 and 45 second delays are done from 13,000 out of the Otter. And NO, you aren't really pulling after that delay; you pull at 3,500.
Chuck

[riggerrob 558]

S/L has two advantages. First, if the clouds are low, you can do S/L all day.
Secondly, one S/L jump is less expensive than an AFF. So if you can only afford one AFF per month, you are better off doing 3 or 4 S/L per month.
I agree with the others that the ideal program involves a mixture of techniques to limit the number of new tasks on each skydive.
I recommend that every new jumper start with a tandem to see the big picture. Then most Canadian DZs tell students to do 2 or 3 IADs (a method similar to S/L) from 3,000. Once they have demonstrated the basics of canopy control, a pair of Progessive Freefall Instructors take them up to 10,000' to teach them freefall skills.

[MarkM 0]

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That is ok, but how can you learn to be good and relax in freefall when you have only 3, 5 or 6 seconds left?

They just keep throwing you out of the plane until you figure it out.

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Can anyone tell me then why some DZ prefer static line?

1. There's less pressure on the instructors and fewer instructor qualifications are needed.
2. The SL training method works well with the way non-turbine planes get to altitude.
3. Since students are exiting alone, you can drop them off on the way to altitude: makes it easy to squeeze them in on a load.
4. One instructor can oversee several students on a single load.
5. Even in heavy cloud cover, you might be able to get some students out.
6. SL does a good job teaching students to be self reliant and builds self confidence.
7. Each jump past the first one is pretty cheap.
Things bad about SL:
1. It's not cost effective with turbine aircraft designed to get to altitude fast.
2. It's a very difficult way to learn stability.
3. It has a high dropout rate(see point 2).
4. It tends to be a little more expensive than AFF in the long run, because usually more jumps are repeated by the student.
Personally I've done 17 SL method jumps and will be finishing up doing AFF after I put in some tunnel time. After 17 jumps doing SL I probably have less freefall time than a student who's finished his level 1 AFF, although I was trained on two difference deployment systems(throw out and chest ripcord) and did some repeats because of that.
But the difference between myself and an AFF kid is I'm probably a lot more confident in my ability to jump out of any plane, anywhere, anytime and be able to deploy my main(using just about any system) at altitude and land it safely pretty much anywhere.
But just don't expect me to do it gracefully.

[Darkzone 0]

I started jumping in June 2000 on the RAPS course and have done 36 jumps (taking into account a 6 month lay-off) so far.
Currently I am doing 20 second delays trying to reach Cat.7 but I am having real problems stopping involuntary turns depite putting into practice everything told to me by my instructors.
I really think now, in hindsight, that an AFF course would have prevented any of the problems I am having before they even started. Having your instructors by your side in freefall correcting your body position is FAR more convenient that having them on the ground and then trying to remember what they told you, especially when you have far less time in freefall to actually correct your body position.
As for cost, personally speaking, what it is costing me now in repeat jumps will probably match anything I would have paid for the full AFF course. Having said that, there is nothing (apart from funds) to prevent me from converting to AFF and having those guys up there with me.
At the end of the day though. Whilst my wallet can stand the pressure I can stand the repeat jumps (and the landings :-) and all I want to do is enjoy myself and that's what I get from skydiving, so...
Whooooohooooo!!! Hahahaha!!!

[PLFKING 3]

Hey sunnerl --
(What does that mean, btw ?)
I did the S/l last August. My reasoning was I wanted to do everything BY MYSELF, and see if I liked it, because I wasn't sure if I would do more than 1 jump -- needless to say, I did ! Floating down under canopy, I had the most intense feeling of accomplishment that I can ever remember, and I did it all on my own.
The only scary moments were letting go of that strut on the first jump, and my second 15-second delay (I didn't learn how to get stable with a JM right there with me like an AFF student would, so I was flipping and turning and spinning and trying to get stable before deployment) -- ended up pulling low but with stability at 2200 ft (but had alt. awareness the whole time) and scaring the s*** out of everyone in the vicinity but me !
However, I think if I had it to do over, I would probably go AFF. My AFF friends learned freefall techniques a lot quicker than I, and learned hand-signals much quicker, and I just think it's got to be less stressful with JMs hanging on to you. I know they had a lot of frustration sometimes trying to learn a particular skill and get to the next level, but I never heard anyone say they were in fear for their lives. My 5-second delays on S/L were kind of harrowing -- enough time to get in trouble stability-wise, but not enough time to get some wind to work with -- definitely NOT my favorite 4 jumps -- I felt like I was going to wrap up like a coccoon on every jump, and felt the pilot chute rub my leg on 2 different occasions -- that is definitely a feeling to induce panic in a student !
And I think in the long run that S/L is more expensive, because it's harder to learn by someone telling you something than it is to learn by someone moving your body into the correct positions.
That PLF Guy

[Deleted 0]

I started with S/L.
There is only one thing I really enjoyed about it.
And that was that I had to rely on myself.
And it was up to me to do it right.
-Derek
D-24034
SCR-14335

[craddock 0]

I love the static line program!! I did my first four way (5points) on my 14th jump(+5 static lines) at a fraction of the cost of AFF. That jump cost me $15 for a total of $425 at that point. No way in hell would I go AFF. That was a couple of years ago so it. It would cost an extra $150 these days.
Unfortunately that is a very special DZ and there are very few places like that to learn. When we had a low cloud ceiling I did like 12 jumps from 2500 feet one day. Most AFF students would never get out of the plane that low with the jumps I had then. Everybody learns at a different rate, but I know that I would not have benefited in any way by going AFF. In my case it would have hurt me because what it comes down to is that WHERE you learn is far more important than HOW you learn.
JH

[cloud9 0]

AFF is causing way to much stress in new students. Thoughts of practice pulls, turns, tracking and what ever.
SL arch.

[Deleted 0]

Where on the net could I get some more information about combined SL and AFF program?
Ieva

[Dutchboy 0]

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Where on the net could I get some more information about combined SL and AFF program?

Try http://www.uspa.org and look for information on the Integrated Student Program (ISP).
The Dutchboy
http://www.geocities.com/ppolstra

[what42 0]

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AFF is causing way to much stress in new students.

I think it depends on the person. Different students will learn in different ways. AFF was fine for me but then I've heard others having a hard time with it. I've heard the same about SL. I think it's good to give students the option of training methods.
Wesley
--
I want to fly!

[riggerrob 558]

Most Canadian DZs offer programs that combine a few IAD jumps from 3,000' (similar to S/L) followed by Progressive Freefall jumps from 10,000'.
To clarify: Instructor Assisted Deployment is the same as static line - from the students' perspective. Riggers and airplane mechanics prefer IAD because gear lasts much longer.