fcajump 153 #26 January 17, 2007 QuoteIn my opinion you should have a D license before jumping a camera. I did not strap a camera on to my head until I had 2000 jumps. How many reserve rides have you had? Think about that.... No matter how much you try to justify it it still adds complexity to every jump..... Is it on, how much tape do I have left, is my flash card full, how much battery do I have, did I tighten the thumb screw, and so on.... I see young jumpers walk out to the plane with the camera dialed in and their chest straps un done. I have done gear checks on young jumpers with mis-routed bridles but their big concern was if the "light" was on. Priorities people! My last mal was on a (rare for me) camera jump at a demo with flag (weekly for me). The camera had nothing to do with the mal, but it definately was one more added distraction. (And then p!$$ed me off when I found out that the camera shut off on exit ) JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #27 January 17, 2007 Whuffo you want to jump camera anyway, it's nothing but trouble: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1435985;page=1;mh=-1;;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #28 January 17, 2007 I saw one EXPERIENCED camera guy film the tandem walking to the door. Sans rig. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #29 January 17, 2007 as mentioned earlier, the link to the video is my video indeed. I had around 850 jumps and 500 camera jumps. It made me realise that jumping with a camera (or any additional gear) is NOT just another skydive. It's a particular task requiring specific training and awareness. Even if the camera is just some "press "ON" and forget" like in Billvon's case.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #30 January 17, 2007 meby I'm mistaken, but wasn't the lesson "when you throw, throw!"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #31 January 17, 2007 Quotemeby I'm mistaken, but wasn't the lesson "when you throw, throw!"?no it wasn't the only lesson, no, definitely not. The lesson might be "maybe" is written in a whole different way If you are trying to smartass that case, some other lessons were : -without a video helmet, chances of this happening are lessened -with a better mounted video helmet also A topmounted L bracket with a camera on it IS a snagpoint. Certainly bigger than a ringsight. I would be curious to see a picture of his helmet.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #32 January 18, 2007 no, I'm not trying to be a smartass. I'd be interested in seeing his helmet too. After your near incident I bought an FT with a cutaway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #33 January 18, 2007 QuoteI saw one EXPERIENCED camera guy film the tandem walking to the door. Sans rig. Meh, yeah I have seen this too. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #34 January 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteI saw one EXPERIENCED camera guy film the tandem walking to the door. Sans rig. Meh, yeah I have seen this too. Recollection is that early/mid '90s we lost a guy this way. VERY experienced camera flier was not jumping... Riding the plane sans rig all day filming exits. Focused on getting the exits on the day's last load, he went with them... I understand that they recovered his tape, but its one I don't ever wish to see. JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #35 January 18, 2007 Quote Recollection is that early/mid '90s we lost a guy this way. VERY experienced camera flier was not jumping... Riding the plane sans rig all day filming exits. Focused on getting the exits on the day's last load, he went with them... I understand that they recovered his tape, but its one I don't ever wish to see. JW When we were filming a piece for TLC, I was shooting the interior/climb, and exits. Out of habit, I started to jump but seatbelt restrained me. I was wearing a rig, but nothing else such as alti, helmet, etc. I was pretty shaken up over how muscle memory nearly put me out the door, mostly because I wasn't thinking about the situation, I was thinking about the shot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #36 January 19, 2007 QuoteHe now has 147 jumps... Enough to get a Coach rating and work with students, but would be considered "reckless" to learn to fly with a camera? I think it's more laughable that 147 jumps is considered adequate for a coach rating and working with students. But...whatever."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,049 #37 January 19, 2007 Whole 'nother thread, Brother. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azureriders 0 #38 January 20, 2007 QuoteWhole 'nother thread, Brother. I agree, kind of like why tomleone would think at 90 jumps that he could turn 180, track, slow down, and deploy with adequate horizontal separation while falling only 500', or why DSE would be sitting by an open aircraft door with a rig and a seat belt on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #39 January 20, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhole 'nother thread, Brother. I agree, kind of like why tomleone would think at 90 jumps that he could turn 180, track, slow down, and deploy with adequate horizontal separation while falling only 500', or why DSE would be sitting by an open aircraft door with a rig and a seat belt on. For point of clarity, seatbelt was on camera rig, hands on camera. I guess I could've let go of the cam and just gone...but I was pretty interested in hanging on to an expensive bit of gear. It was a filmed shoot, heavy cam, mounted in a FigRig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
icevideot 0 #40 January 20, 2007 That sounds a lot better to me. Just to clarify a little. The whole idea of a rig+seatbelt+open door is pretty scary. What happens with a premature deployment if you are not free to go with the parachute? Now expensive camera gear with a seatbelt makes perfect sense. At least as long as the seatbelt isn't where it could trip/hold onto a jumper."... this ain't a Nerf world." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lastchance 0 #41 January 31, 2007 I duck taped a small digital video cam to my pro tek at aprox. 30 or so jumps. Was only interested in filming my freefalls and was never thinking about my cam during these jumps. It was just a way to show my wife and friends when I got home. Once taped to my helmet there were no real snag points as it only stuck out aprox. 1 1/2 inches from my brain bucket and was completly rounded off with tape. The cam is a very small Aiptek camera. Last spring I bought a Bonehead Rat Hat and mounted an L-bracket and mounted my camera to it. It sticks out like a sore thumb. I am going to grind the bracket way down but it still is definatly a snag point. I've had a cam on my head for over 100 jumps now and believe me I know that's not alot. I'm sure to get alot of critisism and feed back for this, but rest assured that I'm going to re-evaluate jumping with the camera for awhile after watching that video. It was an eye opener. I may be getting old but I got to see all the cool bands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigdad510 1 #42 February 26, 2007 to combined a couple of threads-i don't jump a ring sight because I just don't like them. I started jumping camera at 100 jumps. Small turn-on and forget. I think that is ok for low numbers. I can say when I added still, with wires, cables, connectors and everything else that goes with it, it gets complicated. On&forget video, if you truly do that I believe is ok, but you have to make sure its ok with the people you're jumping with, and there always has to be a plan. When you strap on stills, you are definitely past the on and forget stage, and I agree, you need to be able to fly your slot. If you can't be where you want, you're mind forgets safety and goes for "the shot". Some people are instinctive, others are not. Just like a lot of things in skydiving, numbers of jumps, doesn't mean your have more experience. The people you jump with on a regular basis should be your voice of reason. They know how you fly, if you’re safe, if you can handle more. I have low jump numbers, but I believe that i have descent ability to shoot small formations. I don't have the experience to shoot tandems; I recognize this and will openly admit it. You have to listen to your peers and be honest with yourself and make the right call for safety, either others or your own. They are the ones you’re flying with, let them make the call or fly solo. Everyone wants to have a good safe skydive, to skydive another day. I agree, complaining in the air, makes a skydiver nervous, wait till you get on the ground.Brad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jasonRose 0 #43 February 28, 2007 If you jmp a camera at 90 jumps you will die. Whatever. Talk to people who know about camera flying, don't be dumb and don't die. Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #44 February 28, 2007 I agree with much of what you posted, but I did want to point out one thing: >I started jumping camera at 100 jumps. Small turn-on and forget. There is no such thing. Time and again jumpers prove that they do NOT forget about their cameras. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2shay 0 #45 February 28, 2007 All just reccomendations but they are there from years of history and research. I would go by the numbers on this one, but its up to you I started camera around 150 jumps and had no problems at all. I don't reccomend L bracket type set up. I have friends that jump them and don't have a problem, but my opinion is that you eliminate snag points when going with an enclosed set up.don't try your bullshit with me!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #46 February 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteI saw one EXPERIENCED camera guy film the tandem walking to the door. Sans rig. Meh, yeah I have seen this too. I never got on a plane without a rig, but one day while doing 10-12 tandem videos out of a cessna I walked toward the cessna w/o a rig. The TM looked at me and said, "Forgetting something, SteveO?" You may think the camera is not a distraction ... you may plan for the camera to not be a distraction ... but it is. Too many experienced camera flyers have said so. Yes, you will find one or two that says it is no big deal. I'd stick with the majority's opinion on this one. Be safe! Put the camera down until you have more jumps and can fly your body w/o thinking at all. The camera will still be there. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #47 March 2, 2007 I've seen a line snag on the edge of a grommet....which probably stuck out less than 1/2 a millimetre..... Line worked its way into the grommet so far we had to cut the grommett to get it out....reserve entangled with the main....jumper landed in shallow water and walked out without a scratch.....he was lucky..... Remember Murphys law.....if it can......it will......My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #48 March 2, 2007 Norman Kent has a lot of interesting stories of how even now, the camera can become distracting. There are just a handful of people with his experience, yet he's got a story that isn't very old, where he frightened himself and another person so badly that they grounded themselves from camera jumping for a couple weeks. IMO, it takes balls to realize that you f#@! up so badly that you need to ground yourself for a while. Not many people have 20k jumps and have the courage to admit that the camera has created troubles for them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lastchance 0 #49 March 2, 2007 I totally understand where you are coming from there. What I meant by no snag points was the cam was taped to the helmet so there were no edges or sharp corners as such but the whole thing in itself was a snag point I guess. In my mind I was figuring that lines would just slide off or the whole cam would just rip off the helmet. You're absolutely correct tho. Murphys' Law is always at work. Like I said, I will be re-evaluating jumping with my cam till I have some higher jump numbers. I may be getting old but I got to see all the cool bands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #50 March 2, 2007 You just said it..."in my mind"....the benefit of drawing on more experienced jumpers is the fact that they've been around long enough to see most things tried at least once....and they'll look at a bright idea and immediately pose questions you probably never considered... Nothing wrong with good ideas, but they need a fair bit of analysis before becoming reality.....especially when you are gambling with your life. Second opinions cost nothing.... BTW, a thin line, under tension, will cut through tape like a hot knife because it is very abrasive and generates quite a lot of heat......grab a piece of line, clench it in your fist and pull it out rapidly.....you'll see what I mean.... Snags on a helmet during opening shock can also break necks quite effectively.... Re evaluating is a very sensible idea....there is plenty of time to do the camera flying you want to do.....everyone starts off inexperienced...My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
