Zero tolerance hysteria

[SpeedRacer 1]

Man, I don't know what this country's coming to.
I've been hearing stories from co-workers about how if their kids in daycare point a stick at someone & say "Bang Bang" they are made to stand in the corner.
Last week they called in the POLICE about an eight-year old boy who used a folded piece of white paper as a toy gun!! The police were forced to come in and take the boy downtown and filed charges.
Click here for the Washington Post article
God, this is ridiculous! We've got people out there running our schools who think that the proper solution to preventing school violence is to be as extreme and hysterical as possible.
Maybe these people need to be thrown out of a plane; it would give them a better perspective on life.
Speed Racer
"De plaene!! De plaene!!"

[Doasfu 0]

Shit like this could make very odd bedfellows out of gun rights groups and civil liberties folks. :)
Dan
"Oh, you went to a movie this weekend? That's nice. Me? Not much."

[lazerq3 0]

Damit.....I'm gonna make a new zero tolerance policy:
THERE WILL BE NO TOLERANCE FOR FARTING IN THE AIRPLANE. ANYONE CAUGHT DOING THIS WILL BE PUNISHED BY IMEDIATE EXPULSION FROM THAT AIRCRAFT (from a safe altitude of coarse)!!!!!!
jason
ps... guess that means my kids cant play cowboys and indians anymore

[spectre230 0]

[skyhawk 2]

tv didnt bring violence , the romans and the gladiators, the crusades, napolian, All wars up to and including WW1 all these things happened befor tv "desensitived Us" People are the prob and people created tv. Its not the tv, or games or music it is just people in general hell jesus was nailed to a cross and left to die (aparently im athiest) a practice which we know was comman if someone tried to do that today there would be an outcry worldwide

[lazerq3 0]

well said Hawk!!

[PhillyKev 0]

Personally, I think the morality police are to blame for this. Ever since the advent of mass media in this country the rule has been, as much violence as you want is fine, but don't show 2 people in bed together. Don't curse, sex, nudity, etc. are taboo but for years the most popular thing in the movies were white men killing "savage indians" and thinking no more about it then killing a bug. I just think that's a little twisted. If you go up to Canada, they don't censor cursing or sexual discussions or nudity, but violence and racism are. Personally, I don't think anything should be censored, but if you're going to that's the way to go. Only problem is, that country is full of Canadians :Þ

[Iflyme 0]

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I think kids should be taught gun safety at a young age

Kids should be taught that guns are made for one purpose only: killing

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You should take the curiosity of guns away from kids by leting them shoot with you

It's no wonder so many people die every day of gunshot wounds in your country. You seem to think that the gun is your friend. Take away the fucking guns and your children wouldn't be dieing. I saw on the news yesterday video of 2 men arguing. The wife of one of the men pulled a gun! What the fuck do you need a gun for??? To shoot another person armed with a gun!!! You've got guns at work, guns in the car, guns in your bedroom night tables, guns in your belt -- no bloody wonder thousands of people die after being shot each year in your county. And now you want to put these deadly weapons in the hands of children... oh yeah - I forgot - this is a country that has "legal murder": the death penalty... but I know you think you have the "god given right to bear arms", so the killing will continue...

[riggerrob 558]

Hey,
I resemble that remark!
I am Canadian.
May I respond to 2 earlier points?
First of all I agree with what's-his-name when he said that toy guns should be banned and kids should be taught gun safety from an early age. Since my Dad was on the Olympic shooting team we had hundreds of guns around the house. We kids were taught gun safety from an early age. We never had an accidental discharge in the house. Consequently I cannot comprehend all these lame brains who "accidentally" kill friends while "cleaning their guns."
Sorry folks, but I am not bright enough to grasp the concept of an accidental discharge!
Secondly, I am getting tired off all the violence on TV. It gets boring after too many years. Now why our children can't see a little loving is a mystery to me.
Which would you prefer? Your son shooting the neighbor's kid? Or, your son fucking the neighbor's kid?
Finally, Canada may be a beautiful place with little violence, but we got that way through some pretty scary gun laws that border on fascism!

[GeekStreak 0]

Extreme policies like that are the direct result of lazy F$#@ing parents that think the government should raise their kids.
Think about it for a second. How are extreme rules and laws gonna change the behavior of a child? Seriously!? Think about it for a moment. Do you think that the Columbine incident would have occurred if Mom and Dad had checked the boys room for half a nano-second?
It's MY RESPONSIBILITY AS A PARENT to ensure the safety and well-being of my children and nobody else's. It's not the TV cartoons, it aint the movies, toy guns, violent movies, etc. It's bad parenting that causes kids to turn to shit, period.
It comes down to this: Children spell love T I M E. If you give them enough of it they will look to YOU for guidance, not society, their friends, or the boob tube. Banning the use or manufacture of [insert something innocuous here] simply gives people a false sense of security. It is a waste of time and tax dollars.
1111,
GeekStreak

[Divadiver 0]

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It's MY RESPONSIBILITY AS A PARENT to ensure the safety and well-being of my children
and nobody else's. It's not the TV cartoons, it aint the movies, toy guns, violent movies,
etc. It's bad parenting that causes kids to turn to shit, period.
It comes down to this: Children spell love T I M E. If you give them enough of it they will
look to YOU for guidance, not society, their friends, or the boob tube.

Geek:
Excellent rant!! I agree with you 110%!!
Diva

[GeekStreak 0]

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I am Canadian.
May I respond to 2 earlier points?

No... but since you did... Let's ban Canadians!!!! It's all their fault!!
j/k
1111,
GeekStreak

[SpeedRacer 1]

Just a side issue here..
The individual who did the shooting/suicide (and yes it was an INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEING, not a "product of our society") was also a diagnosed psychotic who had abandoned his medication a few weeks before the incident.
and no, I don't think he was thinking of his gun as a toy.
-------------------------------
But I'd like to thank GeekStreak for bringing the issue back to my point, which was not whether or not kids should have toy guns.
It's the point of perspective. How many fully-armed police officers does it take to apprehend an 8-year-old boy holding a piece of folded paper? Geez, I sure hope they were wearing their protective vests!
Come on, people. We've reached the point where we're acting as if normal childhood behavior is criminal. Couldn't this extremist policy backfire? What's the kid going to grow up thinking about adult authority figures, if he remembers how they had him arrested at age 8 for playing cowboys and indians? Is is not possible that the kid might look for some way to rebel against this kind of bs? This hysterical response could actually wind up making kids more antagonistic towards society.
Speed Racer
"De plaene!! De plaene!!"

[Zennie 0]

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Take away the fucking guns and your children wouldn't be dieing.

Hrm. They still seem to be dying. A guy in Japan went bonkers and knifed, what?, like 8 kids to death.
No guns involved there.
A woman here in Houston just went equally bonkers and drowned all 5 of her kids in the bathtub.
No guns involved there.
Are we going to have to have "knife control" and "bathtub control" since they are used to kill people? If people want to kill, they will, regardless of the instrument used. People are innovative (in a sick sort of way) that way.
Do I favor gun control? To a degree. I think background checks, waiting periods, and even licensing are perfectly legitimate measures to try and decrease (note I said "decrease", not eliminate, because you never will) gun violence.
That said, you can't put the genie back into the bottle. There are already way too many guns out there. They aren't going away. Certainly the criminals won't give them up. Why should they? It's what gives them an advantage.
If we were to totally ban guns today, do you seriously think violent criminals would go "OK. Here ya go. I'll try something else?" Of course not.
I have a right not to be a statistic. I have a right to protect myself and my family from any person who tries to break into my home (no I don't carry a gun around town). So if owning a gun to protect my family in our home would make me a criminal, color me guilty.
------------
Blue Skies!
Zennie

[jfields 0]

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So if owning a gun to protect my family in our home would make me a criminal, color me guilty.

Zennie, philosophically, I agree with you. Guns don't fire themselves and they can be used safely. I just hope you are safe and careful with the weapon(s) you own at home.

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I have a right not to be a statistic.

Sadly, the statistics I've seen on gun ownership seem to show a much higher liklihood of the owner or a member of their family being shot than a burglar or criminal. I don't own a gun, partially because I haven't figured out a *foolproof* way to keep it away from any children I may have in the future, while having it be useful in case of criminal intrusion. My personal choice is to do without the gun until that dilemma is solved to my satisfaction. However, I respect your choice to take the other path as long as you do it as safely as possible.
Justin
"If it can't kill you, it isn't worth doing."

[Jeji 0]

An article from a Md paper in Dec 2000
Insights from an old gun: It's not my fault
I got out an old gun the other day and began to ask it questions.
Q: Mr. Gun, how old are you?
A: Oh, aout 60 or 70 years old. I was your fathers.
Q: Have you ever been fired in anger?
A: No, but my human was once disappointed when I missed an easy clay pigeon.
Q: Would you ever rob a bank or commit a crime of violence?
A: Are you nuts? I can't even get out of the gun cabinet without my human!
Q: Many are accusing you of being violent and evil. Any comment?
A: Having a brain of gun oil it is not possible to do anything without my human.
Q: There are those who advocate making you register, like cars. Do you think this will help decrease abuse of your kind?
A: Well, registration of cars certainly doesn't decrease the numbers killed in car crashes. There's way more people killed by cars than by guns. Me and my bretheren are not dangerous by ourselves. It is our human handlers that are the problem.
Q: Some claim that if you were locked up there would be less school shootings. Any comment?
A: The killing of school kids is indeed a tragedy. I am appalled at the evil misuse of our kind, but I cannot control an evil mind. I have not harmed a single soul in my life. I was not at Columbine; I've never even been to Colorado. To attempt to lock me up for the evil intentions of a human mind would be a grave mistake.
Q: The second amendment to the Constitution guarantees your human the right to keep and bear you, yet some want to trash this right. Your comments?
A: There's a vocal minority of power-hungry people who would like to have absolute authority over every thought and deed. These are the ones the second amendment shields us from. When my human is well armed he is a citizen. Stripped of this right he is a subject.
Q: Any closing comments?
A: Yes, do not blame me for the faults of others. I am a peaceful old gun, but I will not be registered, locked up or violated. My advice to politicians: You swear to uphold the Constitution. Read it!
Written by Floyd "Doc" Turner of Salisury MD

[GeekStreak 0]

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the statistics I've seen on gun ownership ... yada yada...

Have you seen these statistics?
1111,
GeekStreak

[Zennie 0]

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Sadly, the statistics I've seen on gun ownership seem to show a much higher liklihood of the owner or a member of their family being shot than a burglar or criminal.

This is true. But usually those deaths are caused by domestic disputes rather than accidental discharges. Which I suppose you could argue is all the more reason to have gun control since many "non-criminals" wind up doing the killing.
In any event, I don't have kids right now and it sits in my dresser drawer. If we do have kids, I'll certainly have to re-evaluate whether the risks outweigh the benefits (especially given the neighborhood I live in -- not a very high crime rate).
------------
Blue Skies!
Zennie

[jfields 0]

This is a hot-button issue for me. Even though I'm about to debate some points you folks have made on gun ownership, I want to make a few things clear.
I'm not saying that guns are bad. Guns are guns and it takes people to fire them. No arguement there.
If your gun gets discharged accidently, it probably won't effect me because I won't be there. Go ahead and own one. Cynical, but true.

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Have you seen these statistics?

Nope. I hadn't seen them. I also question the validity of comparing gun deaths to doctors, but that is really moot anyway. You quoted 1500 accidental gun deaths some given year and note how low the number is. How many wouldn't have happened if the gun hadn't been there? 1500. That is 100%. A tragedy in avoidable deaths. No, the guns aren't at fault. It is the owners.

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Q: Some claim that if you were locked up there would be less school shootings. Any comment?
A: The killing of school kids is indeed a tragedy. I am appalled at the evil misuse of our kind, but I cannot control an evil mind. I have not harmed a single soul in my life. I was not at Columbine; I've never even been to Colorado.

This "Old Gun" might not have been there, but somebody's was, and now there are a lot of dead people. Go figure. Someone clearly didn't have a handle on their posessions.

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But usually those deaths are caused by domestic disputes rather than accidental discharges.

Perhaps. But dead is dead, and might some of those people have lived if there hadn't been a gun sitting handy in a drawer? If the person had been forced to take a gun from a secured place, load it, then the "heat of the moment" aspect is removed. Yes, bad people do bad things with good guns, but do we have to make it so easy?
To wrap up my long post:
Responsible gun ownership = No problem.
Gun owner accidental deaths = Not my problem.
Gun owner domestic dispute deaths = Also not my problem.
Irresponsible gun owner's gun in kid's hands = BIG PROBLEM.
Own 'em if you want, but do it responsibly. If my wife or (future) kid was killed by some irresponsible gun owner's negligence, I'd go and strangle them with my bare hands.
Justin
"If it can't kill you, it isn't worth doing."

[Donna 0]

When my oldest son was born I decided I was going to do everything possible to raise him without violence and weapons in his life. I carefully selected what he watched on TV and didn't buy and toy guns or weapons. One day when he was around 2 and a half or 3, we went to a birthday party at my sister's house and they had all the latest toy weapons and who was the only kid running around like crazy, playing with them?? You got it. My kid. As Dr. Brazelton (a noted pediatrician) replied after being asked his opinion on kids and toy guns, "They come with a built in one." and showed his thumb and pointer finger. So after that I did let him have toy weapons and watch other stuff on TV (though I still prefer sex scenes over violence any day).
We don't have any real guns in our house. In fact, I've never even touched one myself. I find no need to have a gun. We don't even lock our doors. I think parents are fooling themselves if they think their weapons are locked up out of their kid's reach. I've had plenty of talks with my kids about the dangers of guns but I'm still not convinced they wouldn't touch one if they found one. I read about a study where shortly after giving kids a seminar on gun safety they sent kids in to clean a room and planted a gun and almost every single kid touched the gun when they thought no adults were around.
On the other hand I think whether to own a gun or not is a personal choice and wouldn't dream of telling someone they shouldn't have one. I just might not let my kid sleep over *if* I knew.
I'm not sure what the answer is. I agree that a big part of it is parents teaching their kids to be responsible for their own actions, but parents can only do so much and then the rest is up to the kids.
All I do know is that 'arresting' an 8 year old boy for a paper gun is just plain ridiculous.
Skies and fluffies,
D

[Pammi 0]

I saw a thing on tv a while back where they put an unloaded gun in a room, on a table, with a few small children, about 5 or so years old, then watched through a one-way mirror. Some of the children's parents were amazed and appalled when they saw their kids, every single one of them, playing or handling the gun. They said things like "I've always taught them not to touch them!" Scared the bejeezus outta me. I made the kids watch the show, and tried to explain things to them again. Kids have a natural curiousity. The more you hide things from them or try to keep them away from some things you don't approve of or are scared of them being exposed to, the more they will want to know why and check it out when you're not looking. I'm not sure what the answer is, honestly. We own a gun, I'm not really sure why because I couldn't reach it myself if I had to *g* I also doubt my abilities to actually shoot someone UNLESS it were my family someone were trying to harm. Then it would be easy I think (how can you ever really know how you'll react until you actually have to?) I try to make sure it's not where the kids can get to it, or even know where it is. However, when they get a little older, they will be allowed to shoot it if they want. We will help them. They can take a course about safety, etc. I don't want them scared of them or curious because they've never been allowed to be around one or touch one. I just want to teach them to respect them as being dangerous so if they ever come in contact with one outside of my home, or even in it, that they will not decide to examine it by themselves.
I grew up with guns in our home. As did my friends. We were the typical farm family with a shotgun by the back door during hunting season, and another in the pickup. I don't remember ever playing with one or wanting to hurt someone with it. I wonder what's changed over the years to make kids think that way? Cartoons?? I watched the Bugs Bunny ones and such where they blow each other up too. Hmmm... sorry, I'm kinda thinking out-loud here also.
Pammi
Some new pics.

[mikefarmer 0]

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You've got guns at work, guns in the car, guns in your bedroom night tables, guns in your belt -- no bloody wonder thousands of people die after being shot each year in your county. And now you want to put these deadly weapons in the hands of children... oh yeah - I forgot - this is a country that has "legal murder": the death penalty... but I know you think you have the "god given right to bear arms", so the killing will continue...

Uh, it looks like you and I can BOTH be glad that you don't live in MY country. You just stay where you are and pretend you are safe because you don't have a gun. OOH! Watch out for that car, don't eat that fish. Try not to let fear get the best of you!
Mike
I ponder on this dangerous, but irresistible pastime- Pink Floyd

[spectre230 0]

[spectre230 0]

[Jeji 0]

I certainly believe that there is a prolem with gun violence in our society. I however do not believe that removing guns will solve this problem. This is a problem that runs much deeper that the weapon. It is the violent thoughts that go thru a individuals mind that make them pick up a weapon (gun, knife, bat, etc.) and go commit an act of violence that we need to address. I was brought up shooting guns before I could tie my shoes. I was tought what they were capable of, DEATH! It would NEVER have occured to me to play with my parents guns, EVER! But they were also not taboo. I was never told, "Don't touch that! It's bad!" I was shown how to PROPERLY handle, load, fire and clean them. My daughter just turned 4 and has already shot a BB gun a few times. She has a toy gun that she plays with, but will never point at anyone. I have always taught her to treat EVERY gun as a loaded weapon. I have 2 young brothers who's father hates guns. He owns none and will not let them ever fire one. He tells them they are bad. So guess what? When they get there hands on a toy gun they run around like mad "shooting" each other. Education is key, especially for young ones. Take away the mystery and you have taken away at least some of the temptation. We need to spend more time with our kids, learn about them. The trick is not to abolish or regulate guns, but to teach that violence of any kind is not an answer and teach our youth a better way.
Jeji .02