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nrubey

Jump with tandem

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You want the official version or real world version? Better to go ask your DZO and the TI your planning to jump with.

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Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

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phoenixlpr

***>What are the minimum requirements to jump like this with a tandem?

Generally an AFF rating or experience videoing tandems.



I wonder how can you get experience videoing tandems without doing it. ;)

A lot of DZs used to have someone from the dz video tandems on a regular basis before the regulations started getting stricter. Kind of like D license holders who have done tons of stadium jumps before the pro license even existed (back when a D required only 200 jumps too). Eventually everything changes and it doesn't make sense for someone with hundreds of jumps filming tandems to suddenly not be allowed to do so because they don't have the qualifications.
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phoenixlpr

***>What are the minimum requirements to jump like this with a tandem?

Generally an AFF rating or experience videoing tandems.



I wonder how can you get experience videoing tandems without doing it. ;)

When I went through the TI course in 2003 there were several bullet items of which Billvon posted a couple, but a couple of more were, 1) a minimum of 500 skydives, and 2) permission of the TI. It was stressed that the TI should have direct knowledge of your flying skills since you were the PIC and responsible for the safety of the passenger. Note that was 11 years ago and the IRM may read differently now.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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Direct copy from the Sigma Tandem manual:

For any relative worker to accompany a Tandem pair, the following criteria must be met:
1) Relative worker must have a minimum of 500 relative work skydives; or
2) Relative worker must be either a current Tandem Instructor or a current AFF jumpmaster.
3) Relative worker must have made at least 100 relative work jumps in the last year.
4) Cameramen must meet all the above guidelines, and in addition, must have at least 100 camera jumps.
When making the decision to downsize: It's your life, don't spend it all on one canopy

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Dlcobbett kindly showed UPT's take on things.

The US tandem industry also have something similar for filming a tandem in their "19 commandments" -- easy to find online. The USPA has not officially adopted them or a slightly shorter variant in the SIM, but I get the impression they consider them a generally good idea to consider.

Even if you are at a DZ that doesn't follow those very stringent rules exactly, any dz these days will probably want you to be a really decent relative worker to jump with a tandem.

One might need the agreement of the tandem instructor, tandem passenger, and DZO. The experienced jumpers need to be confident that you're the type of RW jumper who can be trusted to fly consistently with safe dives, close-in flying, and breakoffs. Not the dude who who is still a little sketchy, overexcited, and sometimes drops onto the the formation they are chasing.

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nrubey

We've all seen those videos of guys jumping with tandems and docking with them in freefall. What are the minimum requirements to jump like this with a tandem?



So what are your qualifications, new profile, new jumper?

Who do you want to jump with an why?

I politely turn down most requests, but luckily at a small DZ I don't get many anyway.

You aren't going to add much to the experience of your friend or family members first jump, but you could potentially add a bunch of extra risk.

When I had 400 jumps or so I jumped with my Dad's tandem. I was current, did lots of RW, and had lots of tunnel time. I came in docked on dad's hand, hung out and flew off at the predetermined altitude.

Everything went to plan, it was a successful skydive. On the ground he wanted to know where I was, he didn't see me on his jump. :P
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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DougH


When I had 400 jumps or so I jumped with my Dad's tandem.

I came in docked on dad's hand, hung out and flew off at the predetermined altitude.

Everything went to plan, it was a successful skydive. On the ground he wanted to know where I was, he didn't see me on his jump. :P

My wife has swooped many of my tandems. She likes to come in low and in front, get their attention, then come up and dock. She says that very often the lights are on but no one's home. :D

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Another time we were visiting a DZ owned by a long time friend. We also had another friend, who had gotten weathered out at our home DZ, making a tandem, so we asked if I could swoop and my wife video. The DZO said sure but the TM, who didn't know us, had his doubts. I tried to reassure him with our jump numbers, ratings, experience.

We preplanned what would happen and how, then went up and did it to the letter. My wife parked 10 feet out videoing. I flew up, stopped, took a gentle grip. 6000' I tracked off, etc. All was cool.

After the TM opened the canopy, our friend, the passenger, was a little nervous when he exclaimed "Wow, they fly better than I do!" She thought maybe she was in the air with the wrong person. The TM excitedly told my wife later that he had never had anyone dock on him before and it was a lot of fun! :D

So done safely it can be a lot of fun. A good briefing for a first time tandem chaser is imperative. :)

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DougH

I politely turn down most requests, but luckily at a small DZ I don't get many anyway.

You aren't going to add much to the experience of your friend or family members first jump, but you could potentially add a bunch of extra risk.



I mostly do the same thing, many jumpers do not appreciate that I too am in the firing line. I am a professional and follow the manufacturers training and requirements.

My belief is a professional instructor should have no problems saying No to requests whether to strangers or friends if they don't meet the requirements, in a manner which conveys or desire to make this a safe experience and act in a professional manner.

If you meet the requirements and we discuss this beforehand then it may be possible.

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phoenixlpr

***>What are the minimum requirements to jump like this with a tandem?

Generally an AFF rating or experience videoing tandems.



I wonder how can you get experience videoing tandems without doing it. ;)

Just get your Tandem I or AFF, you can then find out what it is like to be a sitting duck under a drogue. It is a helpless feeling to have a mindless meat missile making passes at you. Everyone seems to be in a hurry to put a camera on their head. Hone your skills, get your ratings, then jump a camera.

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nrubey

We've all seen those videos of guys jumping with tandems and docking with them in freefall. What are the minimum requirements to jump like this with a tandem?



As a guy who films a lot of tandems - I loathe the jumps with someone chasing to dock on the tandem.

The person is paying $300+ for this jump and just wants some really good video and nice stills to hang on his wall or post on FB without some guy they don't know ruining the shot.

I personally think it should be the choice of the paying customer (assuming we give the customer a full briefing of the added danger and affect it will have on the video and stills). The customer is the star of this movie not the TI and definitely not the lonely jumper trying to gain experience.

A couple of weeks ago I was filming a tandem and as we were at the bottom of the stairs loading, some guy came up and asked the TI if he could chase the tandem. I immediately said no. He asked "why not" and then the TI said "sure it'll be OK. I've jumped with him before and it'll be alright."

I didn't want to argue with them while the customer was listening but was not happy. And sure enough this guy dove out after us, as seen by me and the video and immediately "Z"d out. He recovered and then made his first attempt at getting to us. As he went by he grabbed for the TI's leg and turned him 90 degrees and was gone. Of course he ended up behind and below me.

I knew it wasn't over. Naturally he parked just a bit behind me as he slid back and forth in a feeble attempt at getting back up to us. I could see in my peripheral all his movement. I slid to the right - then left - then back to the right to avoid being taken out from below. How I ever kept the tandem pair in frame is beyond me.

Then came opening time. The TI waived and pulled. Instead of filming the opening I immediately looked for the guy trying to kill us. and it's a good thing I did. Because he was below us, he did not see the wave off or TI open. I tracked away keeping my eye on him and as I did, saw him pull. No track - just a half assed waive and pull.

Needless to say....... I was pissed. And the audio after my opening can prove it.

I had words with the guy and even more with the TI. I'll let you fill in the blanks with your imagination.

Folks - these are work jumps. People are paying a lot of money for these jumps. There is already a lot of inherent danger on these jumps including for the videographer who is trusting the TI to pull at the right altitude and make good choices for all involved. It's not fair to put all these people at risk, especially when you did not get approval long before the walk to the plane.

The customer has no idea how much added risk there is and is putting all his trust in our decisions. And it makes for less than stellar video and stills. It's simply not fair to them.

This is just one of many messed up tandem jumps with flailing divers trying to dock on a tandem.

Please - go get your experience on other jumps. Pay your dues..... most of us did.

And TIs - please be more strict ............ even with your friends. If you're getting bored throwing drogues, take a weekend off and go do some jumps with those friends.

Let's try to keep the customer's experience and safety at the forefront of our decisions.
Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

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DougH

Very well said.



Yes i agree with just about everything that was mentioned by Skydivesg, especially early in the post where he says. "someone the student doesn't even Know. "...It IS selfish and intrusive to "ask onto" a tandem, simply because you have manifested as a solo... and then at boarding decide you don't want to BE a solo....It might be acceptable ONLY if the TM and The cameraperson KNOW the singleton, AND trust in his/her abilities....Or if they Invite the solo...

There Is however another side to the story... which is when the Student " Does know " the extra jumper ", " Does want to share the skydive " Does understand and accept the added contingencies...:|
Just over a week ago I was able to Join my Son ( 28 years of age ) on his second Tandem jump. We made the request to jump together, of the DZO at the moment we asked about getting Jim on the manifest. I was known to the DZO, and also to the Cameraperson and came to meet the TM and address his concerns, well before we geared Up. The Key , as is Often the case,,, was effective communication, upon meeting and Before boarding , taking into account the cameramans preffered exit position, the TM preffered exit style and My willingness
to " follow their requests " I do have the credentials required to make such a skydive...:)As it was, i followed, from Inside the otter giving a half step lead, to them... It was a great exit and smooth dive and as the drogue was tossed, I stayed well awaay from them and put myself where i was VISIBLE to everyone. Holding that position,, and always staying in View "where i SAID i would be "...B| i flew in harmony WITH them :)About the time a dock onto my sons right arm presented itself, the TM did 2 slow 360s instead, and so i stopped,,, backed Up a bit, rethought the dock and smiled. Caught my sons Eye a few times, and he was grinning.... ( so was I )B| I split with a MOST noticable and firm turn & track at Six-Five, as we had ALL discussed and i Know they Both ( TM & Camera ) saw me GO!!!!;) tracked hard, checked the spot, looked around , waved and pulled. The spot was good, we all flew a pattern to a landing nearby to each other. It was a Great experience for all 4 of us. IF done correctly and with safety in mind.... It doesn't HAVE to be a " Certain, No-GO" Here's the thing..... you need to put in Years,,, YEARS, maybe even decades to reach the point , where you can even Consider it ...Gotta temper your enthusiasm until some dues have been paid.
Some pics attached ,
TM Jerry B photos by Big Jim C.

imho
jmy

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Good post, Jimmy.

I would have no problem when approached in this manner.

I've filmed lot's of tandems with guest lurkers when the ability and concern for safety was clearly present.

When the passenger knows the jumper and the jumper has the skills, I am more than willing to film and be a part of the fun.

The important part, as you mentioned, is talking through the dive and doing what is asked of you - and clearly that's exactly what you did.
Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

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jimmytavino


There Is however another side to the story... which is when the Student " Does know " the extra jumper ", " Does want to share the skydive " Does understand and accept the added contingencies...:|

Exactly. My wife has jumped with many friends and family going with me on a tandem. And she is an extremely good tandem swooper. She would never commit those grevious sins related in an earlier post.

Other times I would be taking someone not getting video. My wife would ask if she could come along and fly with them. She would fly up, wave, smile, dock, back off, do a flip or two, come back in and redock. Frankly, the passengers seem to love having their own private air show and something to relate to up there. Never had any complaints. :)
Used to love pointing her out, still in freefall, after we deployed. Then I'd say "Pull, honey! Think of the kids!" :D I hope it was funny.

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> wonder how can you get experience videoing tandems without doing it.

By videoing other things first.

While I was doing tandems I required one of three things if they wanted to jump with me and fly relative:

1) Experience videoing tandems (and appropriate RW skills)
2) AFF rating
3) Direct knowledge of their skills

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phoenixlpr

***>What are the minimum requirements to jump like this with a tandem?

Generally an AFF rating or experience videoing tandems.



I wonder how can you get experience videoing tandems without doing it. ;)

Try filming rookie FS teams for a season or 2 :P

I started out with filming CReW/CF, after that wingsuiting and a rookie FS team plus filling in for other rookie/A/AA teams. I then did my first tandem video at jump number 850 or so.

Piece.

Of.

Cake.

The first video was a freebee for a friend, 2nd one was paid.


I've seen jumpers trying to learn to video learning it on tandems, I've seen 1000+ jump freeflyers f* up the tandem exits or even freefall, I've had accompanying belly flyers do all kinds of stupid stuff (and some did ok), and accompanying freeflyers seem to do even more stupid stuff.

My take, if you can consistently handle yourself bellyflying in non-planned situations while multitasking (like keeping a rookie RW jump that's gone to hell in perfect frame, or doing AFF :P) then you might be ready to jump with tandems.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

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Agreed!
Before I allow any 400 jump wonder to video me doing tandems, I tell them to video their belly-flying or free-flying or whatever-flying buddies 24 or 36 times. The worse their buddies flail, cork, go low, etc. the better the practice. If they ever fly over a junior jumper - in freefall - I remind them of the dangers of "un-scheduled openings" and tell them to go practice some more. I tell them that they need to demonstrate consistent separation at opening time and under canopy.
Once they show consistent video of fun jumpers, then I brief them on the basics of chasing videos. My briefing always starts with the hour-glass diagram.

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