airann 1 #1 July 8, 2001 I have a Great Dane, and he had to have a companion (dumbass boyfriend left & took his dog) so I reasearched breeds. I got a Mini Toy Rat Terrier. He will get tops 6-7 lbs. He is used in Europe to chase rats down holes-so he is small and TUFF. His name is Flea Flyer. My new jump partner.So, yesterday Flea Flyer had his LEVEL 1: Introduction to Aircraft 101/Prop Blast/skydiver community/DZ dogs/and CReW dogs. He was only curious about the plane, Skeet: my Great Dane was with him- he is used planes, always goes to DZ with me. So, we got slowly all the way into the prop blast and to the door. Still just curious, no fear. I covered his eyes some so no dirt would get in. Then we went to the side of the runway and sat down. Flea sat by Skeet and we watched the plane take off. Still no problems or concerns. Except, he picked up a real flea from one of the CReW dogs.Actually, the CReW dogs were particuarly enlightening regarding information on this subject. Lots of people knew Robin and Pud. And the DZ dogs werent a problem, Skeet took care of that.Next:Level 2: Aircraft Observation Ride 101, I might sit with pilot on the first one, part two, three, or more, is about sitting with the skydivers in various seating arrangements getting closer to the door each time. (and getting used to the smell right before DOOR!) Several things to consider here. #1 His rig is going to be made by a Master Rigger, the best in Houston. He needs Flea Flyer and my rig to do it. So that will be first class and safety first.#2 Flight Physical, Class K-9, done by a skydiver Vet friend. So he will be cleared physically, as to heart attack or something terrible like tape worms. Ick!#3 Protective eyewear, that I havent figured that out yet. His eyes are only about an inch and a half apart. Likely, I will use part of some wrap arounds, elastic under chin and around the ears and clipped to his collar maybe. Maybe he needs a BONEhead. ha! Upon opening, I dont think I can help myself from at least one hand around Flea. (I have a Sabre and it beat the hell outta me yesterday) I may keep this rig for jumping with Flea. Use another for the Stiletto.Most of these precautions are indicated by the Animal Rights persons. Which I absolutely support and agree with regarding the above. Plus, its common sense. However, it is Flea's right to skydive, IF he enjoys it. If he does not, then its over. His choice.MY QUESTION IS THIS:I know about Robin and Pud. I did not know them personally. And I have no data on training Pud or his dog rig or what to watch for. I figure he likely did what I am doing, thinking about it a lot and noting every possible senerio. In a Sit, he will be sheltered from most of the wind. Plus, it will make him feel better with something under him, he may be able to put his feet down on my legs. Dont know yet.If anyone remembers or can tell me stuff I need to know about this, please write. Pro and Con. Either way, I have to make sure Flea Flyer is totally protected and comfortable. ANY info, please.No freaking out but, (and this is never going to happen).I have thought about this next part and plus I have been told already that I would go in trying to save that dog. I believe that may be pretty close to the truth. (my cypress, protrack-considered) I've had a line over, line twist, fast spinning mess of a malfucntion that I cut away from, but it was difficult, (spinning so fast, couldnt move my arms). Anyway, If I have to do it again and just in case my reserve isnt right, I'll need to cut myself away from Flea Flyer, and let him have a chance. Its the right thing to do.Idea: This may be built into his jump suit or vest with an automatic released giant tandem drouge or something and brightly colored so he can be found easy.Been thinking jump suit or vest anyway, he has short hair and could get cold. But his rig design may cover this issue.Clear Blue and Extra Alt, AirAnnhttp://www.AirAnn.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #2 July 8, 2001 Only other doggie safety issue that comes to mind would be a biffed landing. Definitely wouldn't want to roll over the top of the little guy. ------------Blue Skies!Zennie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mountainman 0 #3 July 8, 2001 HAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!! *wiping tears from face*That is great! I don't think that I've ever seen a dog in freefall. Is it really done???Our humble corner on the web... HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #4 July 8, 2001 I didn't know Robin and Pud well, but I met them on a few occasions. That dog LOVED to skydive! Gretchen will argue this point, but the dog had a great time IMHO. What a great skydiving buddy....Lindsey"I live with fear and terror, but sometimes I leave him and go skydiving!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeekStreak 0 #5 July 8, 2001 How cool! I've been training my Jack Russell Terrier, Maggie Mae, to ride in my coat while riding my motorcycle. That way she'll be more comfortable in a tandem harness later. If she develops door fear I figure I'll just throw a rabbit out the door and she'll follow! j/k about the rabbit A cat would be better !!!!1111,GeekStreakM-00001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #6 July 8, 2001 I've seen it. I dont know if it is the right thing to do but if that what floats your boat....Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airann 1 #7 July 8, 2001 I started out looking for a Jack Russell due to the intelligence factor. Turns out Flea Flyer is smart as hell. And he is a very close relative of the Jack Russell. I was going to get a Fox Terrier cause it sounded better than RAT terrier. But, he was a TOY Rat Terrier, meaning smaller than the size the of Rat -not a Fox which is what they chase, so they would be bigger -that is what they do besides dig in flower beds. FYI: Great Danes were breed in Germany to fight giant wild Boars. Hence they cut their ears so they wouldnt get ripped off in a fight. And that explains the size. The little Dude was fetching AND bringing it back at 8 weeks old. At 7 weeks he was create trained. However, he likes to put a tiny poop occasionally on the floor just to irratate me. Now if Skeet did that I would be disapointed, then I would have to check under it to see if Flea got covered up. Once, Flea and Skeet were in the back yard and Flea walked under Skeet at a bad time, so Skeet peed on his head. Now, Flea did not know where it came from, nor why he was getting a bath, or why Skeet and the cats were calling him a Chump!I see no real issues with Flea Flying with me, I am overly cautious regarding the only kids I will ever have, likely. My dog Skeet can recognise me, on final at 500 ft. Flea is already a base jumper without fear - Zero Fear. When he jumps off the couch, he doesnt jump down - he jumps OUT, like he is wonder dog with a cape. He can currently jump about 5.5 ft from the edge of the couch. And he jumps all the time. Levin was making noise with the doggie treats bag in the kitchen and Flea jumped or flew off my shoulders and shot OUT not down to run to the kitchen. Bizzare, I think he wants to fly, actually. He stood it up too!If the training schedule goes as planned and if he enjoys it and there are no safety issues, then I think we can be jumping in about 3 weeks or so. And whatever DZ we do it at will instantly become popular. As well as Flea, Me- well, I am just the trainer along for the ride.As far as the additional reserve for Flea only, I have been thinking about that. It might be difficult to design. Tandem passenger People dont have reserves. But I am going to look into it anyway. Clear Blue and Extra Alt, AirAnnhttp://www.AirAnn.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airann 1 #8 July 8, 2001 Zen: Regarding: doggie safety issue -would be a biffed landing.I have landed alot of different bad ways, as you very well know. On my butt, on my ankle, on my side and on my kees, shoulders and head, in that order. And I had that shreaded ankle with separated tibia and fibia - but who walked in anyway, from the far pond? That would be me, tuff skydiver chick! The next weekend back jumpin with an AirCast. Still no chest plant.I have never done a chest plant or face plant to date. Could be a girl thing, not sure. Do you protect your penis when crashing? Anyway, I would roll or something if that was close to happening. Or slide in land on my side or butt. If its an emergency, the dog makes it. Thats the rule. I will roll up in a ball and protect him. Besides, I have that surfin on one foot and stand up weirdness landing nailed. It looks scary but I dont actually crash, catch on fire and blow up. And that day, among many, I landed off and came back with my face all bloody and blood drippin off my chin, that was from a riser slap - not a face plant.And besides, I land perfectly now. I take 1.5 wraps and start flare 10 feet before I used to and I fly the canopy all the way to the ground. Thanks to my buddy who caught the mistake, 1/2 flare and too fast. Fixed and done. Now nobody watches me land anymore. I am now boring. Its the special effects that keeps the crowd happy.I am going to be jumping a certain person's stiletto, since he is in the "non fatal incicent reports", this month. We have been talking about it for a while, ever since I almost bought that Alpha 126 or whatever it was. But Flea stays under the Saber 150, I now weigh 124, so thats all good and Flea is at about 4 or 5 lbs. No worries.Clear Blue and Extra Alt, AirAnnhttp://www.AirAnn.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DZBone 0 #9 July 9, 2001 Quote#3 Protective eyewearDon't they make little aviator helmets for dogs? You know, the leather jobbers that the barnstormers wear. I checked the Foster Smith catalog, but they don't seem to have them. Maybe one of those places that sells dog costumes.As far as going in to save the dog, I would think that you would be motivated to work to save both of you. Wouldn't want to leave the little guy (and the big guy) without an alpha, would you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PalmettoTiger 1 #10 July 9, 2001 Ann, have you thought about a short ride (like 12 seconds from 4500 or so) for the first jump? If Flea decides he doesn't like skydiving, dealing with him squirming or protesting for 30 seconds may not be much fun, and might even cause you problems. Blues, squares,PTiger"Beer: the OTHER other white meat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bearcat 0 #11 July 9, 2001 Ann,You're not really serious about this are you? Exactly what are "you" getting out of it? To each there own I guess.Bear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFKING 3 #12 July 9, 2001 Hey Ann --Wow.....the questions you see asked on these forums !Years ago (in my early -to-mid 20s) I used to ride a lot, and this one particular lady would bring along her Pomeranian occasionally. She had taken a leash-harness (the kind that fasten around both the front and back legs, and had a strap running under its body lenghtwise under the belly and another over the backbone) and sewn metal rings to it at the neck and tail. She also wore a vest that she had sewn 2 little clip-hooks to, so when they got on the bike, she just clipped him on (sort of like a tandem student), and the dog could sit on the gas-tank when they rode, and she had hands-free operation of the bike. She had also taken the plastic bubble off a child's toy bubble-gum dispenser, bored some air holes in it, and used that to keep the wind out of the dog's eyes. It had four little strips of bungee cord sewn into the collar that passed through holes in the bubble, then were sewn back to the collar -- this allowed the dog some freedom in moving its head, but the bungee cord would pull the bubble back to its original position. Before she sewed the bungee cord on, she said the wind would pin the bubble to one side or the other, and the dog wasn't strong enough to hold it straight-on into the wind, but the elasticity in the bungee cords would hold it steady.When we'd stop for lunch or whatever, she'd take him out of the harness. When it was time to ride again, the dog would actually try to climb into the harness/helmet combination by himself -- it was hilarious to watch him pushing it around trying to climb in ! She said when she first made it, the dog was resistant to the idea of putting his head in the bubble, but she smeared a little bacon grease on the inside a few times, and she never had problems after that. She also thought the dog associated the helmet with riding, and he loved to ride. Every time I saw him, he looked like a little alien visitor or something....In your case, 2 attachment clips would be too much to deal with in an emergency.....I would think you could sew one clip onto your chest strap, and have a belly-band with Velcro installed on your rig.......you could then clip his collar onto your chest-strap and Velcro his tail-end to your belly-band. And you could rig up a short static-line running from your chest-strap to a pouch on the back of his harness, said pouch to be holding a very large pilot chute, (or maybe a tandem drogue chute), so that in an emergency, you could just unclip, peel him away, and throw him clear. And I honestly never thought I would have an opportunity in life to relate that story, but it just goes to show that no knowledge is TOO trivial ! Hope it helps....The PLF Commandant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFKING 3 #13 July 9, 2001 QuoteIf she develops door fear I figure I'll just throw a rabbit out the door and she'll follow! j/k about the rabbit !A cat would be better !!!! Looks like the Geek-Meister finally found a good use for cats !QuoteDo you protect your penis when crashing? Hell yes ! After stepping on it once during a landing, I have learned to protect it well.....The PLF General Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #14 July 9, 2001 QuoteI have landed alot of different bad ways, as you very well know.In all honesty it wasn't a commentary on your landing skills. I just know I roll the hell out of my bad landings (must be that jujitsu training) and any dog under me would be toast. The butt slide would prolly work.QuoteI have never done a chest plant or face plant to date. Could be a girl thing, not sure. Do you protect your penis when crashing? LOL! Um, actually my legs get tangled up in... No. I prolly should have the one day I did a butt slide through the mud and hit at least ten crayfish mounds. If they had been dry I'd be still singing soprano. ------------Blue Skies!Zennie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #15 July 9, 2001 The guy that used to jump his dog at Barnwell had a harness/sling thing built that held his little dog sideways across his chest. He would sit/freak fly and the dog would hang out and kind of sit on his belly. The one thing that almost always happened, though, was that the dog would shit on opening shock. It happened at least three times that I saw. It wasn't because the little guy was scared; it just had to do with the pressure exerted on his abdomen during opening. The dog loved to skydive. I am not sure if that guy is still jumping or not; I haven't seen him in about 10 years.Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #16 July 9, 2001 http://www.skydivenet.com/fatalities/fatalities_us_97.html If its the same person look at #16 for what happened to him.... Whoa... That was cool! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DZBone 0 #17 July 9, 2001 Well, this is random. Look at the picture I came across last night (here).I have no idea who this is, but the guy whose site it is jumps at Boston-Providence, in RI, and Jumptown, in Mass.Wonder what he does for goggles?Carl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airann 1 #18 July 11, 2001 Thanks everyone for the postings both pro and con.I have all of a sudden come accross quite a bit about people jumping with their animals. I have seen a guy doing a tandem with his LAB, and another small dog, and this guy in OK with his dog. Now, The OK dude, has a small one like I do, but mine is a Toy Rat Terrier. And is only 5 lbs maybe. The guy with the weiner dog, rig was too close to cutaway handles for my taste. Guess, cause I have had a really good malfunction and I made it out alive. So, I want to be able to grab those really well. The Lab, is too big and squirmy, Flea at his best squirm could not, even if he wanted to damage my rig. He is too small. I hopw it works out for Flea, he really does like to jump off of things, but we shall see if he likes airplanes. One more thing, he did get car sick on the way to the DZ. Hope he doesnt get air sick. I will take along some stuff for him if he does. Best way to cure air sickness is to get out.I will let you all know how we do. It may be a few weeks, I dont want to rush him and at anytime he can quit. But out of all the animals that I have, mostly rescues, he is the best candidate for skydog. Skeet my Great Dane, would never make it to the door, plus he is bigger than me and if we ever got into a spin Id never get out. Plus that is just damn stupid.Clear Blue & Extra Alt, AirAnnwww.AirAnn.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #19 July 11, 2001 QuoteSkeet my Great Dane, would never make it to the doorForget the door. The plane would never get off the ground with Skeet in it. ------------Blue Skies!Zennie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeekStreak 0 #20 July 12, 2001 QuoteI started out looking for a Jack Russell due to the intelligence factor. Yup. They'll train their masters if they can. Maggie (who killed her first critter today!) has our boxer pretty well trained! She is definitely the alpha of the two. I am, of course, the real alpha dog 1111,GeekStreak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #21 July 13, 2001 First of all, start with a human harness that has chest rings.Secondly, you are right to ask your local Master Rigger to sew the dog harness.Third, designing an extra reserve for the dog will create far more problems than it will solve.Finally, hook your canine buddy to you any time the airplane door is open. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
