what are the downsides to this?

[hudsonderek 0]

What are the pros and cons of packing an up tucking main pin flap container like the attached drawing? the pin placement seems pretty solid to with a more fluid pin extraction and less gear wear and tear. if you slide up against something the pin seems to go horizontal and stay in place and with the pin flap open sliding down a wall seemed to seat the pin more....I kinda want to do this now... any ideas? comments? thoughts...?

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

You seem to want to align the pin with the bridle routing towards the bottom of the container.
Is this because that's where the pilot chute is stowed?

Keep in mind that won't be the direction that the bridle pulls from when you toss the pilot chute.

Think about what direction the pilot chute and bridle will be pulling from to extract the pin.
I would suggest putting the pin in a way that the pilot chute has the easiest extraction of the pin.

I mostly doubt that the pilot chute will have any real difficulty extracting the pin no matter what orientation the pin is in. Do you know how much force a normal, properly cocked P/C has? It's a lot.

What you are mostly doing is reducing wear and tear, I think.

But I could be wrong and I welcome correction.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[riggerrob 558]

">>> Do you know how much force a normal, properly cocked P/C has? It's a lot. ...."

..................................................................................

80 t0 100 pounds at terminal velocity.

[erdnarob 1]

There has been a quite interesting article about the closing pin insertion and extraction force in the Canadian Magazine CanPara.
The author explains (pictures included) the pros and the cons of different configurations. You have to know that when the pilot chute is launched, it goes vertically and the slight leverage between the pin attachment to the bridle and where the pin is held by the closing loop makes rotate the pin around the line passing along the pin body under the closing loop. That action puts the pin on its edge just before the extraction.

Here is the title of the article.
Closing Pin Depth of Insertion – 1/2, 2/3, or all the way?
By Hector MacLean-Angus
Rigger A1 at Skydive NOVA

If you are interested, ask a copy of the article to CanPara magazine.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[chuckakers 370]

wolfriverjoe

I mostly doubt that the pilot chute will have any real difficulty extracting the pin no matter what orientation the pin is in.

Correct.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[evan85 0]

I've also found BASE jumpers an interesting resource on topics like this, as they tend to be (rightfully so) far more concerned with having a pin that's secure but will open exactly when you want it to (with much less extraction force on sub-terminal jumps). Here's a couple interesting posts I found about pin orientation and pin locks. I'm sure there are other/better articles, but I found these educational.

http://www.watchthybridle.com/2014/02/pin-orientation/
http://www.watchthybridle.com/2013/10/pin-locks-in-detail/

Edited to add: As others have mentioned, this is much less of an issue in skydiving, where at terminal velocity it's incredibly unlikely that your PC won't be able to extract the pin (unless something abnormal is preventing it from doing so). Even so, still interesting to see how it all works. I'd rather know too much about my gear than too little...

[pchapman 261]

evan85

I'm sure there are other/better articles, but I found these educational.

http://www.watchthybridle.com/2014/02/pin-orientation/
http://www.watchthybridle.com/2013/10/pin-locks-in-detail/

I had seen them and agree that they are good.
One point the pin orientation page misses is why happy or sad creates less force. It depends on where the pin is being pulled from.

A comment of mine about to be moderated, in the pin-orientation page:

"It just forgets to add one more point: fundamentally, what matters is whether the fabric in the eye of the pin, is pulling near the axis of the hole through the loop, or whether it is pulling from further away. When it is pulling from further away from the axis, then the pin rotates up away from “flat on the rig” easily — as when the fabric is pulling from the “top of the smile”. When pulling near the axis, it is more like prying up a straight pin, and it takes a little more force to get the pin to flip up away from the rig, whether by rotating the pin or having the fabric twist and move around the eye to where it can pull the pin easier. For all I know about BASE bridles, the extension from the bridle to the pin may always be on the same side, so the sad orientation may always be better, and that’s what the author cares about. But for bridles and pins in general, it will depend on which side of the eye the fabric normally lies."

One skydiving bridle and rig of mine uses the packing method where the bridle comes up from the bottom and goes back down to the bottom. Depending on which side of the bridle faces up, I can either pack it so the happy face would have less force to extract, or the sad face would have less force, because it changes whether the fabric tends to be pulling from the one side of the eye or the other. (And often I pack it in a "more force" orientation because in skydiving I'd rather have a little more force to start the extraction.)

[inline imag5794adj-pin-pull.jpg]

To the OP:
Having the pin aligned with the bridle is something some may suspect as encouraging a bridle piercing. While a very rare problem, some may like to keep the tip of the pin off to the side of the bridle, rather than under it, where a little bit of sliding around might more easily allow the tip of the pin to slip over the edge of the bridle. Bridle piercings are still a bit of a mystery so there's still debate about what practices to follow.

[evan85 0]

100% right about where the pull force comes from, but the pin orientation actually does discuss this, calling the loop of webbing the "retainer tab":

Quote

Scenario 1: The pin is “sad” and retainer tab sits on the bottom of the eye of the pin like in the pictures above.

Personally, I route my bridle out the bottom and back down (as in the "prevent bridle piercing" videos, etc.). I do "happy pin" and make sure the retainer tab, or bridle attachment, or whatever you want to call it, is on the top of the eye (i.e., the "top of the smile" as you say)--because this is the way that makes it easier to see the bridle window (something that BASE jumpers needn't worry about, as they generally (or maybe always?) do not have collapsible PCs).