Some thoughts

[Deepstar 0]

I am now SOOO bored of scuba diving ( Been doing it for 15 years) I am now fullfilling my life long dream of skydiving, while the 2 sports have simlar aspects the most striking is the public view of safety. In diving we did our best to hid the fact that it could be dangerous to dive.. It seems to me that the Skydiving community seem to revel in the danger aspect. As I understand it scuba carries a higher risk factor than skydiving. anybody like to comment.

[skyhawk 2]

the skydiving comunity doesnt revel in it the media does

[AggieDave 6]

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the skydiving comunity doesnt revel in it the media does

Oh, come on, like you've never tried to pick up a girl with the entire "yup, I skydive..."thing. If you say no, I know you've got to be lying. Just about every skydiver I know has tried that atleast once. AggieDave '02
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Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!
BTHO t.u.

[phastasphuk 0]

I do believe that scuba diving is more dangerous than skydiving, and maybe it really is, I don't know.
But the dangers of scuba diving is more easily hidden from the general public that doesn't know all about ascent rates ,depths, tiny bubbles in yer blood and whatever that makes it dangerous. But they do know if you fall from an airplane with no chute/bad chute, you will die!
And it's not so easy to hide that fact.
chris
How would you like too stick with me
How much do you love to freefall

[xybe 0]

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I do believe that scuba diving is more dangerous than skydiving, and maybe it really is, I don't know.
But the dangers of scuba diving is more easily hidden from the general public that doesn't know all about ascent rates ,depths, tiny bubbles in yer blood and whatever that makes it dangerous. But they do know if you fall from an airplane with no chute/bad chute, you will die!
And it's not so easy to hide that fact.

The psychological factor here is very important. People don't ask "why would you jump out of a perfectly good boat". It's easy for the general (whuffo) public to imagine awful skydiving accidents, regardless of how probable this accident may be it conjurs very strong images and feelings. One of the hardest things about speaking about skydiving safety with whuffos is that their fears will not be dispelled with statistics or rational arguments, people have said to me "I don't care about statistics, it IS dangerous." It is very hard to change the people's perception when they refuse to accept proofs against their argument.
Images are far more powerful than statistics. The images people create in their minds after a sensationalist skydiving incident report will make an emotional impact that very hard to argue against using rational arguments (ie. statistics). Scuba divers can relate this to the way outsiders fear sharks, not based on statistics but on a myth created in godd part by the media.
Flying is very unnatural to us while swimming is perfectly acceptable. A human being in the water is only percieved as being in a friendly environment. Humans have been diving for millenia. Flying is seen as unnatural (think of the Icarus myth -not the caonpies :) - )
Regarding the media, skydiving accidents are by far more spectacular than scuba diving accidents. Decompression ilness is hard to understand by outsiders, and drowning is just drowning wether you are 180 ft below the surface or in your tub.
WhileI would not say that skydivers in general relish danger there probably is a strong "danger management" factor that we find satisfying. Some time ago in this site there was a posting to a forum quoting a rigger saying something in the lines of "When you are out of that airplane you are dead, it is up to you to revert that situation."
Skydiving builds up my self esteem: I have to check my equipment, exit safely and manage to pull stable and at altitude. It is up to me to be responsible, otherwise the consequences could be nasty. I never felt this way about scuba diving, safety was an obiously necessary thing but it did not bring the same satisfaction.
This are just observations and gut feelings, not scholarly findings :), feel free to find holes in my arguments and point them out.
Marcelo
Check out the Hardcore Whuffo pages at:
http://xybe.50megs.com

[freefallfreak 0]

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As I understand it scuba carries a higher risk factor than skydiving.

The one thing I don't understand here is, if SCUBA is so dangerous, or more dangerous than skydiving, why are you bored with it? To me, the more dangerous, the more exciting, and therefore, the less boring. Will someone explain to this (me) dumb country boy, this scenerio??
FFF

[skreamer 1]

That was a good reply, especially the point about people being accustomed to the water (swimming, sailing, diving etc). Maybe the same thinking applies to why people aren't concerned about all the deaths on the roads. BTW how can you be a 'Hardcore Whuffo' if you have 17 jumps to your name?
/s

[phastasphuk 0]

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The one thing I don't understand here is, if SCUBA is so dangerous, or more dangerous than skydiving, why are you bored with it? To me, the more dangerous, the more exciting, and therefore, the less boring.

I think that scuba diving itself isn't dangerous at all, but what makes it dangerous that is so easy to make mistakes...descent a little to deep, ascend a little to quick and zap, that was fatal accident. To be honest, I never dived, but to me it's looks so much easier to make mistakes when there are no clear boundaries of whats safe and whats not. Please correct me if I'm wrong here.
But with skydiving, the border between life and death is crystal clear, it's ground zero. And because it's not natural to humans to fall to earth in freefall speeds, we become more alert to the dangers that the ground represents. We have been swimming for zillions of years, so we are used to it. maybe in a couple of thousand years, fallin from the sky IS natural to us.
Well, just my .50 skr.
chris
How would you like too stick with me
How much do you love to freefall

[xybe 0]

Once over many a beer among friends we came up with the resort-factor to explain some SCUBA accidents. Alcohol policies seem to be firmly enforced in DZs, on the other hand I'v seen scuba divers party (and drink) hard the night before a dive. The whole vacation mindset makes some people forget that SCUBA is not just another thing to do on vacation but a potentially dangerous activity.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for SCUBA diving, I just get the feeling that some people don't take the inherent risks of the activity seriously. When you go skydiving you are focused on your jumps, the DZ offers little else for jumpers. Compare that to some vacation packages that include SCUBA diving, the ones you can find at travel agencies worldwide: they drop scuba diving as an extra activity among partying, casual sex (ok, maybe this one is not a valid point), etc. Consider the case of Cozumel in Mexico, it has great parties and great diving sites but also some very dangerous dives (like Barracuda reef) that should not be done when not focused, when dehydrated (hung over) or when alcohol and other drugs are still present in the bloodstream.
It's a shame that a minority of careless SCUBA divers take unnecessary risks and end up dead or paying a visit to the decompression chamber. It seems that skydivers are more aware of the potential dangers.
By the way, how many of you guys are into SCUBA? I quit a couple of years ago with only some odd 100 dives in my logbook (Uruguay is a lousy place for SCUBA).
Marcelo
Check out the Hardcore Whuffo pages at:
http://xybe.50megs.com

[skyhawk 2]

Oh, come on, like you've never tried to pick up a girl with the entire "yup, I skydive..."thing. If you say no, I know you've got to be lying. Just about every skydiver I know has tried that atleast once.
me never i just where skydiving shirts and make sure that the picture is showing,(me acting all cool and calm) girl walks u[ oh so you jump out of planes, oh yeh its pretty cool, do you get scared, nah ive got over 60 jumps nows i know what im doing, fuck thats alot of jumps how long you been jumping, six months, oh wow come and meet my friends,,, hey guys this is ben he is a skydiver . oh wow ect ect ect

[skymedic 0]

I am a rescue diver(600dives) and skydiver(28dives). I am far more afraid underwater than I ever have been falling out of the sky. I personaly dont revil in the danger of skydiving but I do like the risk management aspect of it
Marc
A-38578

[Zennie 0]

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The psychological factor here is very important.

Jumping out of an airplane is a dramatic act. Jumping out of a boat isn't. SCUBA is slower moving (and thus more generally accepted), but that's what makes it dangerous IMHO. It can lull you into a sense of security that isn't there. Lots of things can go wrong down there and if you lose awareness and/or panic, you're dead.

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It is very hard to change the people's perception when they refuse to accept proofs against their argument.

This is brilliant. Sums it up perfectly.
Some people's egos are so fragile that they just can't accept the fact that they might actually be wrong -- no matter how rational the counter-argument.
Don't pay 'em no mind.
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Blue Skies!
Zennie

[riggerrob 558]

The difference between public images of scuba diving and skydiving are based on two concepts.
First, the media had parachuting figured out in the 1920s and don't want to hear anything new.
Secondly, scuba diving is a much larger sport with far more millions of dollars flowing through its coffers.
I did a bunch of scuba dives 10 years ago and have made 3500 skydives, but do not believe there is much difference in risk between the two sports.
Hiding the fact that scuba-diving is dangerous is largely a marketing ploy. There are so many millions of dollars flowing through diving resorts, dive boats, local dive shops, etc. that no-one dares scare away potential dollars, er cutomers by telling them scuba diving is dangerous.
Skydiving instructors used to say skydiving was safe back in the early 1980s. But, then we had too many students do too many stupid things - mostly ignoring what their instructors told them - and too many law suits. Now skydiving instructors are legally bound to tell every first-time jumper that skydiving is dangerous and they might die! This should be common knowledge, but people don't want to hear it!
As for the media, after a year in journalism college, I concluded that the media is all about sensationalism. They hate it when facts and stistics get in the way of a juicy, bloody, gory story. Most of what the media knows about parachuting came from barnstorming barkers back in the 1920s. Back in the 1920s - supposedly shrewd - journalists swallowed all the barkers' hype about how dangerous parachute jumping was and printed that hype verbatum. Most barnstorming jumpers survived dozens or hundreds of jumps. But the media wouldn't allow statistics to interfer with a sensational story.

[DZBone 0]

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In diving we did our best to hid the fact that it could be dangerous to dive.. It seems to me that the Skydiving community seem to revel in the danger aspect.

There's your answer right there, although I wouldn't say we revel in it, except maybe when picking up chicks (my last pickup worked great, was the last one I'll ever have to do).
Anyway, my point being that because we bring the dangers right out in the open and address them, the sport is safer, imho. I don't scuba, so I'm not qualified to opine as to it's approach, but if what you say is true, that the sport/industry tries to "hide" the dangers, therein lies the trouble.
Incident reports, "save" reports and forums like this make the sport safer by allowing us to all learn from the mistakes of others.
Carl