Tandem Fatalities/ Injury stats

[Emma 0]

Uh, was just trying to get some stats for a whuffo friend of mine who wants to do a tandem and needs to persuade his wife it's 'safe'...
It became obvious he wasn't going to be content with my standard waffle that it's 'more safe than driving to the dz....safer than fishing....honest guv, it's really safe' etc., I had a look through rec.skydiving and could only find a lengthy conflict and not many whuffo-friendly stats. And I mean friendly in the sense that they don't hurt your brain too much to read. I don't want to mislead him since we all know that we can and do break tandem passengers every
week.
Anyone got a site I can direct him to with some numbers on? Something I can quote? Something that looks 'official'? Something that isn't some random guy going, "Based on a median of x thousand skydives taking place each year, (and I assume an experience level of y, for expediency and the purposes of this statistic, looking at only ACTIVE skydivers in the western world who have full use of all their limbs), dividing the total by half the number you first thought of and multiplying by Pythagorus' theorum to set the test group, excepting non-USPA members: skydiving is safer than driving a car on your way to the dz whilst sending a text message and drinking a can of cherry cola, although NOT AS SAFE as driving drinking a warm Pepsi and picking up a voicemail blah blah blah".
If I am asking the impossible just ignore me.
Cheers,
Emma

[drosenberg 0]

You can go to the USPA web site and look at some statistics.
I think that in year 2000 there were about 200,000 tandems in the US and 0 fatalities and serious injuries.
(based on the info published in Parachutist)
I hope this helps. Anyway even my wife did it.
David
My photos and videos:
http://www.feathersys.com/skydiving/index.html

[Grogs 0]

I haven't seen the 2000 USPA stats, but in 1999 there were about 184,000 tandems done. I've looked through the skydiving fatalities page and I only remember seeing maybe 2 tandem fatalities in the last 5 years, so you're probably talking 1:250,000 or so. Injuries are a little more difficult to pin down since a lot of them probably don't get reported. Personally, I've probably seen 500-1000 tandems land in the last year and only 1 or 2 sprained ankles.

[hughbetcha 0]

hello emma
lots of info at:
http://www.skydivenet.com/fatalities/

[zelda 0]

Well, this isn't very official, and I'm certainly not arguing that skydiving is "safe," but I saw on the news last night that last year in the U.S., over 100 people drowned in riptides while swimming/wading on the beach...compare with...what was it...32 U.S. skydiving fatalities last year?
It's the stuff no one ever considers "risky" that really bites people in the ass...probably BECAUSE they don't think it's dangerous, eh?
Oh, and the fatality link in the post above is a really good one; I don't think Barry has them broken down by tandem, but he's got them going back to, I think, 1995, for U.S. and abroad. I've looked at most of them--very few tandem fatalities.
-zelda

[Doasfu 0]

At the risk of sounding like a crusty old rec.skydiver, skydiving is not safe. It is significantly more dangerous than driving to the Dropzone, and you're doing someone a disservice if you try to convince them otherwise.
Dan
"Oh, you went to a movie this weekend? That's nice. Me? Oh... Actually, me too..."

[Viking 0]

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At the risk of sounding like a crusty old rec.skydiver, skydiving is not safe. It is significantly more dangerous than driving to the Dropzone, and you're doing someone a disservice if you try to convince them otherwise.

BLASTPHAMY!!!!!
Remember when Sex was safe and skydiving was Dangerous?

[skymedic 0]

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At the risk of sounding like a crusty old rec.skydiver, skydiving is not safe. It is significantly more dangerous than driving to the Dropzone, and you're doing someone a disservice if you try to convince them otherwise.

sure dan, your right. if you dont manage your risk correctly (ie. dont pull, overweight a reserve/harness/main)
it is the unmanagable risk that is different. I have pulled hundreds of dead body's out of cars that did not have anything to do with the accident. tell them driving is sooo safe.
Marc
A-38578

[jhus 0]

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...skydiving is more dangerous than driving to the drop zone

That is an extremely general statement, and completely untrue. What is true is that if you compare a safe driver to a careless skydiver- then skydiving is more dangerous than driving. But you can't try to argue that a resposdible skydiver is at more risk than an inexperienced driver who thinks he is the sh#t! 44,000 people die every year from vehicle accidents- so there is no way that driving can be safe. The other problem with driving is that you are completely susceptable to other peoples mistakes. That is true with skydiving as well, but not as much. Most skydiving accidents involve one individual, and are a result of that individuals mistakes. It may be true that skydiving is not safe to a certain standard, but according to that standard there is really nothing we can do that is safe.
As for tandems- that might be the safest adrenaline rush you could ever get. There is a good chance of a minor injury like a sprained ankle or sore ass, but serious injuries are extremely rare.

[Doasfu 0]

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it is the unmanagable risk that is different. I have pulled hundreds of dead body's out of cars that did not have anything to do with the accident. tell them driving is sooo safe.

Driving's not safe. I didn't mean to say it is. Skydiving, however, really is quite dangerous. You're certainly right about being able to minimize the risks, but they will always be there. I don't want to start a flame war here.
My only concern is that people can easily fall prey to bad math. At the risk of offending the early poster who mentione riptides, that's not a fair example. To draw any reasonable comparison, you'd have to find out how many people participate in such activities. I'd be willing to wager that a lot more people go swimming in a year than go skydiving, so we're kind of talking apples and oranges here.
Dan
"Oh, you went to a movie this weekend? That's nice. Me? Oh... Actually, me too..."

[zelda 0]

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At the risk of offending the early poster who mentione riptides, that's not a fair example. To draw any reasonable comparison, you'd have to find out how many people participate in such activities. I'd be willing to wager that a lot more people go swimming in a year than go skydiving, so we're kind of talking apples and oranges here.

Ummm...you missed my point entirely, which was prefaced by saying that I am not among those who will try to tell anyone that skydiving is safe. We can trot out fatality rates for any activity, and almost all of them will be higher than that for skydiving, and it's not because those activities are safer. My point is, there ARE NO fair examples. Comparing skydiving fatality rate to car accidents is ridiculous--how do you equalize the activities? Can't do it by miles driven/fallen, can't do it by number of trips/skydives (you see where I'm going with this); you can't compare experience or training. There is no way create an even playing field to use for comparison, and I don't think there should be. Jumping out of airplanes is inherently dangerous--I think it's more dangerous than driving to the corner store, or the DZ, or across the country. I'm trying to think of something that I believe is more dangerous (snake handling, maybe?), and I'm not coming up with much.
I mentioned the drowning in riptides statistic because it so beautifully illustrates a point I've tried to make before: I believe that fatality rates for other activities are higher than fatality rates for skydiving for two reasons, 1) more people participate in (many of) those activities, and 2) the rates are higher BECAUSE THEY'RE LESS DANGEROUS! People go to the beach (or for a drive, or whatever) and think that the worst thing that can happen is that they'll get a sunburn. They get careless and complacent, they get into a situation that they don't know how to handle, and often, they get dead.
Skydivers are very well aware (I hope) of the risks they are taking, and have trained for and drill emergency procedures accordingly. I don't know about you, but I'm a WHOLE lot more anal about gear checks, emergency procedure drills and safety in general when I skydive than when I, say, drive to work or go to the beach or dry my hair or what-ever-activity-you-want-to-compare-to-skydiving. Anyway, I think whatever statistics people want to use, even if they were adjusted to show per-capita rates, are misleading and beside the point.
Skydiving is dangerous, and whether or not someone participates must be about training and that person thinking long and hard about his/her personal level of acceptable risk.
blues
-zelda
Edited by zelda on 7/25/01 02:43 PM.

[ClayFowler 0]

OK..OK........Let's get back to the original situation. Why does this guy have to prove to his wife it's safe? Who's wearin the damn pants??????????

[dove 0]

Emma -
Didn't the FAA finally take tandems off of the "experimental" list? When I signed up for my tandem last year I had to sign a document saying I fully understood that I was taking part of a trial. So I guess the trial proved that it was safe enough to become a legitimate form of entertainment for the general public. Just a thought! Just tell him it is better than sex and he will HAVE to try it!!!!! (and she will too!)
Elisa

[jhus 0]

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tell him it's better than sex

Is skydiving really better than sex?! I've never had sex so I don't know... but now I guess I don't have to worry about what I am missing out on!

[Doasfu 0]

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Is skydiving really better than sex?! I've never had sex so I don't know...

They're more or less the same... I mean, you get on the plane, take off your pants, lie back and... hey, wait a sec! Come to think of it, my jumpmaster may have been using me.
"Oh, you went to a movie this weekend? That's nice. Me? Oh... Actually, me too..."

[DZBone 0]

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Is skydiving really better than sex?!

If you can't compare the safety of skydiving to driving, you can't compare the rapture of sex with skydiving.
It's all good, everyone needs more of both!

[zelda 0]

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tell him it is better than sex

Yowza--that's a tough call! I guess on the "pro" side of sex: it lasts longer (hopefully)! On the other hand, I've never had sex so indescribably amazing that it moved me to tears!
blues
-zelda

[DZBone 0]

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I've never had sex so indescribably amazing that it moved me to tears!

Oh, well then you aren't doing it right!

[zelda 0]

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Oh, well then you aren't doing it right!

Ooooh, I knew that was coming! I'm certainly not oppposed to the possibility...

[jhus 0]

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If you can't compare the safety of skydiving to driving, you can't compare the rapture of sex with skydiving.

Alright... you've got a point there. But I bet my argument still holds true for this one too! Good sex is better than bad skydiving, but good skydiving is always be better than sex with someone inexperienced who thinks they are the sh#t.

[ClayFowler 0]

I stopped trying to compare the two long ago. Now my standard reply is "It's the most fun you'll ever have with your clothes on!"

[dove 0]

Personally I would never give up either for the other. Whichever I am currently doing is the more fun choice!! But I brought it up because she is trying to convince a man - easiest way to convince him to try it no matter what his warden - er, I mean girlfriend, says!!
Elisa

[ClayFowler 0]

Has anyone ever tried to have sex WHILE skydiving? Hmm...watch those handles!!!!!!!!

[dove 0]

Funny you should ask... I was thinking about that lately. (ever watch the Seinfeld episode where George wants to eat and have sex at the same time for a truly heightened (pun!!!) orgasmic experience?) The chick could mount on top while seated and both sort of rock out together. I am assuming insertion would be nearly impossible at terminal! Not to mention the loss of lube in 120 mph winds if you're not already in there!! So now you know where my mind is!!!! The great gutter in the sky!

[ClayFowler 0]

You can call me less of a man if you want but as calm as I am in the air.......I think just getting the erection in the first place would be tough. Talk about performance anxiety. You only have 64 seconds to get it up and get it done...LOL. I guess you could exit with "it in" and see what you can get done in 64 sec????? Yeah...the lubrication may be a problem. Hmmm....any volunteers for this experiment? Maybe we should apply for a federal grant to study this. We could call it.....Reproductive Health in a Free Fall Environment. LMAO