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evan85

Squirrel Snatch pilot chute -- use in skydiving environment?

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I won't take credit for the idea since there's already an article posted about it, but wanted to start the discussion. Should skydiving rig manufacturers be looking at this design for potential use in skydiving applications? I don't know enough to give a solid answer, but my thoughts are:

Pros: more efficient, more stable, etc. can't be a bad thing
Cons: unnecessary cost

I assume the reason this is targeted to BASE and not skydiving is that in skydiving--i.e., at terminal and where a small bit of altitude generally won't make a serious difference (unlike in BASE, or at least some BASE)--your regular old "2D" pc is going to work just fine.

That said, interested to hear folks' thoughts. Is this something the skydiving manufacturers should be using? Squirrel says they have open-sourced the design (in the form of downloadable 2D patterns to print/plot and sew), so it would seem the only additional cost would be materials and labor, not R&D.

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Hi, i think it's actually not so much about creating more drag, that you can just achieve by choosing a bigger sized pc. I think it's more about minimizing the oszillation of the pilotchute during deployment which causes the packjob to rotate, and with that cause offheading deployments. Might be a cool thing to have on high performance canopies where this might be a bigger factor to come into play if the costs of the pc aren't too high. Not too much of a use with bigger canopies in my opinion. If might become a cool gadget, but if there is really need for that is another question.

edited to add: wrote an email to squirrel requesting the cad designs, took them 2!!!!! minutes to reply, sick. next time i need a wingsuit i know where to order ;-)

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The main reason for the PC design is to reduce uneven air spillage and therefore oscillation, as suggested above. In BASE jumping an oscillating PC will turn a pack job (especially at sub terminal, slider-down air speeds) and cause an off-heading.

In my experience, most skydiving off-headings occur after the canopy is at line stretch sniveling and "searching" for a final heading and it pressurizes. This is not an issue with BASE canopy designs.

I think for skydiving these PCs would be nice and work well, but they are certainly overkill for what we need. I'm sure they perform well in a terminal/WS BASE environment (as that's Squirrel's specialty), but I'm curious to hear some real-work feedback in slider-down applications.
Apex BASE
#1816

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It's the bridle that makes a pilot chute collapse. And there aren't any collapsible pcs in base. At least that I know of. Add a kill line and viola, you have a collapsible snatch.
I also requested the files and less than 2 minutes later i had them. Ditto for where I'm buying a wingsuit.
Maybe two years ago I built a 6 gore semi-hemispherical PC and had to shrink it because when I hit line stretch it was like getting kicked, at 24" it worked great. Went back to 2d double circle for bulk reasons only. Lots of extra seams.....
I was that kid jumping out if his tree house with a bed sheet. My dad wouldn't let me use the ladder to try the roof...

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Alexg3265

It's the bridle that makes a pilot chute collapse. And there aren't any collapsible pcs in base. At least that I know of. Add a kill line and viola, you have a collapsible snatch.
I also requested the files and less than 2 minutes later i had them. Ditto for where I'm buying a wingsuit.
Maybe two years ago I built a 6 gore semi-hemispherical PC and had to shrink it because when I hit line stretch it was like getting kicked, at 24" it worked great. Went back to 2d double circle for bulk reasons only. Lots of extra seams.....




can I have some of what your smoking?
BASE 1519

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Absolut

Of course, but if you change it for skydiving application a collapsible version isn't too big of a deal to produce.



I am not sure about that. In the snatch the apex of the "top skin" might reach the apex of the mesh before being fully collapsed. Actually, because of being preshaped, I am not sure you can fully collapse it. It doesn't matter how much you pull down the apex, the edge of the "top skin" will always protrude a little bit.

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I do not see the point in using this for a main pilot chute as the small percentage difference in opening altitude is not doing to mean much

For a reserve pilot chute though I see more potential. More drag for the same size seems like a good idea.
Problem though is that if the added bulk is substantial then why not just have a larger regular reserve pilot chute.


Maybe worth it on a tandem drogue? Those can bounce around a bit

Bottom line is that main advantage of the Snatch is that it minimizes oscillation which I think is not that important in skydiving.

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Deimian

***Of course, but if you change it for skydiving application a collapsible version isn't too big of a deal to produce.



I am not sure about that. In the snatch the apex of the "top skin" might reach the apex of the mesh before being fully collapsed. Actually, because of being preshaped, I am not sure you can fully collapse it. It doesn't matter how much you pull down the apex, the edge of the "top skin" will always protrude a little bit.

As it's designed sure, but extend the mesh a little bit and it'll collapse like the best of them. Imagine before you attached the top and bottom halves together, you hang them from their respective centers. If the mesh skirt hangs shorter, it will stay partially inflated, since the zp/f-111 will hang below and curl up to form a ring that will catch air. A larger bottom opening and shorter kill line will collapse it further and allow the apex and handle to pull into the skirt opening.

when you hang the pilot chute collapsed from the attachment point, look at the bottom edge. If you see mesh curling in, you're good; if you see fabric curing out and up to meet the mesh, then it's not collapsing all the way. Swing it around and you'll see it catch air around the "ring"


A round sketch is attached.
I was that kid jumping out if his tree house with a bed sheet. My dad wouldn't let me use the ladder to try the roof...

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wasatchrider

***It's the bridle that makes a pilot chute collapse. And there aren't any collapsible pcs in base. At least that I know of. Add a kill line and viola, you have a collapsible snatch.
I also requested the files and less than 2 minutes later i had them. Ditto for where I'm buying a wingsuit.
Maybe two years ago I built a 6 gore semi-hemispherical PC and had to shrink it because when I hit line stretch it was like getting kicked, at 24" it worked great. Went back to 2d double circle for bulk reasons only. Lots of extra seams.....






can I have some of what your smoking?




Gladly! I got plenty!:ph34r:


Actually, I'll go ahed and make one and and make it collapsible and then I'll go jump it. And then I'll post videos! And then I'll smoke more.
I was that kid jumping out if his tree house with a bed sheet. My dad wouldn't let me use the ladder to try the roof...

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Alexg3265

******It's the bridle that makes a pilot chute collapse. And there aren't any collapsible pcs in base. At least that I know of. Add a kill line and viola, you have a collapsible snatch.
I also requested the files and less than 2 minutes later i had them. Ditto for where I'm buying a wingsuit.
Maybe two years ago I built a 6 gore semi-hemispherical PC and had to shrink it because when I hit line stretch it was like getting kicked, at 24" it worked great. Went back to 2d double circle for bulk reasons only. Lots of extra seams.....






can I have some of what your smoking?




Gladly! I got plenty!:ph34r:


Actually, I'll go ahed and make one and and make it collapsible and then I'll go jump it. And then I'll post videos! And then I'll smoke more.
That's the way, aha aha, WE like it! Aha, aha :D

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*CALLED IT* B|
http://squirrel.ws/skysnatch

The "SkySnatch" is now available. I can see why a "more stable" pilot chute could be desirable in edge-case scenarios while wingsuiting, CRW, or similar. In freefall, I'm not sure I see any benefit. Anyone with more knowledge than me have additional insight on who, if anyone, should be looking at getting one of these?

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Given that the main idea behind the Snatch is to reduce PC oscillations and the off-headings or linetwists caused by them then people who jump HP canopies and/or regularly participate in big-ways where the sky can be pretty congested on opening might be interested.

That said, there is probably a far smaller portion of skydivers than BASE jumpers who would find PCs sexy enough to spend the big bucks on one:P
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Any opinions on the applicability of this design to RPC? Pilot chute instabilities don't seem that important to me except for top notch swoopers with twitchy canopies on inflation (or maybe some wingsuiters going against the general advice of avoiding elliptical canopies while wingsuiting), but I am wondering if this design can make a difference for somebody pulling their reserve handle while spinning and being close to the basement. Does it make any sense?

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Hellis

Anyone else who thinks the handle looks like it has sharp edges?



Not sharp, but the the raw CF at the edges can create some tiny splinters. Nothing a bit of fine sandpaper wouldn't solve.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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jakee

***Anyone else who thinks the handle looks like it has sharp edges?



Not sharp, but the the raw CF at the edges can create some tiny splinters. Nothing a bit of fine sandpaper wouldn't solve.

Or some clear fingernail polish.
50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

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Deimian

Any opinions on the applicability of this design to RPC? Pilot chute instabilities don't seem that important to me except for top notch swoopers with twitchy canopies on inflation (or maybe some wingsuiters going against the general advice of avoiding elliptical canopies while wingsuiting), but I am wondering if this design can make a difference for somebody pulling their reserve handle while spinning and being close to the basement. Does it make any sense?



I am hoping this will be one more tool in my arsenal to jump my Nitron safely with a wingsuit, though several people already have. I'm trying to figure out my deployments and on some of my crappy ones the PC is oscillating several feet either direction causing some really off heading openings. Perhaps the more stable design of the skySNATCH will be exactly what I need. I currently use the 11' bridle from UPT.

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