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Tisket

Booties and beginners

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14 jumps under my belt so far and I have a new-to-me jumpsuit with booties. I've been tucking the booties up both because they're way too long and because I want to learn to fly myself without relying on gear first. My choice is to wait until I have 50 jumps, then try them out for a few jumps and decide which way I want to go regarding using them or not.

Some folks say what I'm doing is right. Learn to fly myself before adding anything extra. Then, it'll be adding a new skillset when I decide to start learning to fly with booties, but I'll be competent enough to not need them.

Other folks say that once I learn booties I'll have to unlearn bad habits I've picked up without them.

What are your opinions about newbies using booties? For it, against it, what's your reasoning?
If you can't convince them, keep them confused.

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I thought you where asking about boobies;)

Darn, I need break out the reading glasses.

I don't see a problem flying what you want, as long as you are comfortable in the air. I guess I see them as a minor accessory, it's not like your becoming a wing suit pilot...yet.

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I would finish your A license then give them a go. At the end of the day they are a tool to help you get the most out of FS.

Some people struggle initially for some reason and so I would certainly check with people who know you first.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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Quote

Some folks say what I'm doing is right. Learn to fly myself before adding anything extra. Then, it'll be adding a new skillset when I decide to start learning to fly with booties, but I'll be competent enough to not need them.

Other folks say that once I learn booties I'll have to unlearn bad habits I've picked up without them.

What are your opinions about newbies using booties? For it, against it, what's your reasoning?


First opinion is talk to your instructors, and likely go with their opinion.

Second opinion is from personal experience: I did not get a jumpsuit with booties until somewhere between 100 and 200 jumps. I did have to re-learn how to fly with them.

Booties make the lower part of your legs a lot more powerful. What you can get away with without booties (not having your feet symmetrical, for example) will not work with booties. Far from hampering your ability to learn to fly, I think they will force you to have better body position to avoid flying in circles.

So, if you intend to use booties at some point, then I would start using them as soon as you either get your license, or are cleared by your instructors to do so.

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I've been chatting with instructors, coaches, and the other highly experienced folks at my DZ and have gotten mixed opinions. I've made up my mind to wait until I have 50 jumps to try them out, plus the jumpsuit I have will need to be altered to shorten the booties before I can use them anyways. I'm just curious what others think and their personal opinions on the subject at this point.

I can definitely see booties bringing any symmetry and positional issues into focus.
If you can't convince them, keep them confused.

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I have 45 jumps, I bought my suit with booties for my 27th jump, yes there is a huge difference. Personally my instructors were really ok with me using the booties. I excelled threw AFF and coaching jumps to earn my A and had proper leg position with stable legs... I'd say that's the key, start using the booties when your legs are stable in regular flight,turns and level changes...As I said the difference is huge. But as you said. I had to learn smaller movements with my legs which was easy after a few solo jumps,

I try not to use it every single jump so that I keep my free fall skills consistent with or without.

That's my .02

Hope it helped

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2 considerations with booties

1) Increased snag hazard for some aircraft types - a famous 182 exit where the plane ended up landing with the guys bootie still trapped on the step (don't know when or where as saw it on tv) and I know someone who got temporarily hung up on a 182 step

2) 1 bootie coming off or not put on will cause interesting flying. Not an issue if you are aware and have a plan.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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Tisket

14 jumps under my belt so far and I have a new-to-me jumpsuit with booties. I've been tucking the booties up both because they're way too long and because I want to learn to fly myself without relying on gear first. My choice is to wait until I have 50 jumps, then try them out for a few jumps and decide which way I want to go regarding using them or not.

Some folks say what I'm doing is right. Learn to fly myself before adding anything extra. Then, it'll be adding a new skillset when I decide to start learning to fly with booties, but I'll be competent enough to not need them.

Other folks say that once I learn booties I'll have to unlearn bad habits I've picked up without them.

What are your opinions about newbies using booties? For it, against it, what's your reasoning?



Don't over-think it. Booties are typically very easy to get used to, even for noobs. Get them altered to fit properly and go jump your ass off.

BTW, my son was a dz kid and had his own jumpsuit before starting AFF, so he did his entire student training with booties and never had a problem.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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As a new coach, I wouldn't want my student wearing booties with me, unless I get confirmation from an AFFI that he's been using them already and he is ok with them. Not because there is anything wrong with flying with booties since early in the game, but more because, if used improperly, they could put me to a "challenge" I am not up to. There are dives I wouldn't want you to start using them (i.e. wearing booties when trying a "swoop and dock" for the first time is probably a bad idea, but if the students wants to try them very badly, maybe I would be ok when doing forward/backward or level adjustment, that I am pretty sure it would be just fine, as long as he knows how to fly straight with them).

So that being said, my advice would be: get your license without them, finish what you're doing and then switch to them, early if you want to.
If anything, because it does take 3-4 jumps to "adapt" to them, it's not bad or sketchy (as other people said, it's not a big deal) but jumping while on student status is more "expensive" than doing it once you have your license, so priority wise, I would say get your license and then start playing with these things at your own pace and without having to worry about other stuff, don't change things while still progressing on learning new skills. My $0.02 of course.

That being said, I find flying with booties extremely rewarding and, in a certain way, addictive. I wouldn't go back to do any sort of belly work, whether 4 ways, big ways or coaching, without them.
I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

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Did my AFF al through A-lic without booties. Afterwards, got a new suit with booties - sure made a huge difference at break off and helped a lot when changing from using arms to turn, to doing leg turns. Did a jump the other day without the booties and my break off track seemed sooooo slow in comparison. Do like them and can't see a reason not to use them once you've sorted the basics.

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Di0

because, if used improperly, they could put me to a "challenge" I am not up to. There are dives I wouldn't want you to start using them (i.e. wearing booties when trying a "swoop and dock" for the first time



You're right to be cautious, but this is an opportunity to stretch your coaching brain. You can use the dives before swoop and dock to give them an idea of how powerful the forward drive will be, and how best to account for it and slow down in time.

If you just go up with them in their never-before-used booties and say "come at me bro" then it will probably not go well, but you're the coach - so coach :)
(I always wince a little when I hear coaches say "oh don't worry, I'll be able to get out of the way", but that's for another thread. In which I will describe the time a coach candidate said it to an examiner, who identified an in-air teaching opportunity :P)
--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

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I can only speak from personal experience, but if I were in your shoes I would get that suit fitted to you now and jump it when youre licensed.

The debate about using it through student jumps is beyond me, and honestly it may be best to know that you can get licensed without it. But once youre fun jumping you need to put it on.

To put my entire reasoning in a short explanation... I began using a suit with booties around jump #95 and my first thought was "DAMN why didnt I use these earlier!".

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I won't pretend to be an instructor or a coach as I'm not rated.

But I do fly a lot of 4 way, and I can tell you that when I jump with newer jumpers, I really like to see them in a suit that has grippers and booties.

For one, it shows me that you're taking belly flying seriously, so I'll be more likely to expend extra effort to share as much knowledge as I can.

It also makes the jumps a bit more successful because you have the right equipment for the jump. The learning curve is really quite minor to get used to having the bootie to start.

I wouldn't tell someone to not wear booties unless they have a very hard time with basic stability and maneuverability. If that's not you, then the only limiting factor is your comfort level and desires. You don't have to wear one, but other than personal reasons, I don't see any reason not to.

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chuckakers

***14 jumps under my belt so far and I have a new-to-me jumpsuit with booties. I've been tucking the booties up both because they're way too long and because I want to learn to fly myself without relying on gear first. My choice is to wait until I have 50 jumps, then try them out for a few jumps and decide which way I want to go regarding using them or not.

Some folks say what I'm doing is right. Learn to fly myself before adding anything extra. Then, it'll be adding a new skillset when I decide to start learning to fly with booties, but I'll be competent enough to not need them.

Other folks say that once I learn booties I'll have to unlearn bad habits I've picked up without them.

What are your opinions about newbies using booties? For it, against it, what's your reasoning?



Don't over-think it. Booties are typically very easy to get used to, even for noobs. Get them altered to fit properly and go jump your ass off.

BTW, my son was a dz kid and had his own jumpsuit before starting AFF, so he did his entire student training with booties and never had a problem.

+1 No point in waiting till 50 jumps.

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chuckakers


Don't over-think it. Booties are typically very easy to get used to, even for noobs. Get them altered to fit properly and go jump your ass off.

BTW, my son was a dz kid and had his own jumpsuit before starting AFF, so he did his entire student training with booties and never had a problem.

Interesting. Of course, you and I had thousands of jumps before we ever got a suit with booties. First jump in them? A few seconds out the door I thought "Well these are nice" and that was my adjustment period. I especially love them for tracking. B|

Our son was a tunnel rat so he had no booties up til now, but he's now doing a lot of FS at his new DZ, so Mom's making a custom bootie suit for him. B|

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You learned without them, so flying with them is going to change stuff. I started with booties around 30ish jumps. It wasnt life changing, but it was different. If you are a confident flyer and want to learn to use them, get them altered and try them out. If your priorities right are on other things, dont throw them into the mix. It will probably take you a few jumps to get used to them, just because youre still new to freefall in general. Someone who has 1000+ jumps isnt going to take long to adjust to booties vs someone with low jumps.

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