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skydiverek

Mirage MARD is out

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angryelf

It's a great concept. The piece they aren't showing is the lanyard that opens the reserve container. How does that fit into the mix?

My issue with it is that elastic loop that the bridle tucks under. I think it needs to be a pocket. Just speculating here-but if a lazy/inept rigger advances even an inch long bight through that loop and the "snare" collapses around it: you've got a main girth hitched to your reserve bridle and the jumper is totally screwed.

I am curious to see this thing. Might be alright, guess we'll see...



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Hopefully the "Mark 2" pocket will have the bottom sewn shut. If they want to get fancy, they can sew in a clear plastic window.

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pchapman

*** Not one substantive fact about the container.



"This baby is certified to 1949 standards!"
Oh, never mind.
(Just a cheap shot for anyone who knows their TSO's.)

................................................................................

A few years back, Mike Johnston (Johnson sp?) gave me a written summary of dynamic tensile tests he had recently done on ringed Mirage harnesses. He concluded that two layers of Type 8 webbing was stronger than (the earlier pattern) because it stretched a little.
Since this was shortly before Mike moved to UPT, it sounds like Mirage never submitted an application to the FAA to update their TSO. This was also around the time that the FAA was trying to update from TSO C23D. Maybe Mirage was merely waiting for the ink to dry ont eh new TSO standard.
It would be nice if Mirage updated their TSO, but that would largely be a paperwork exercise, since they have re-tested most of the their components to the newer standards (the same way that UPT, R.I. and Racer have done).
In the long run, remember that the TSO system is primarily about quality control. If a company can manufacture parachutes for 30 or 40 years - with few fatalities - then any additional test data is just window-dressing.

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riggerrob

A few years back, Mike Johnston (Johnson sp?) gave me a written summary of dynamic tensile tests he had recently done on ringed Mirage harnesses. . .



Jeff Johnston is the harness/container guru. Mike is the DZO at Deland.

Mark

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riggerrob

***It's a great concept. The piece they aren't showing is the lanyard that opens the reserve container. How does that fit into the mix?

My issue with it is that elastic loop that the bridle tucks under. I think it needs to be a pocket. Just speculating here-but if a lazy/inept rigger advances even an inch long bight through that loop and the "snare" collapses around it: you've got a main girth hitched to your reserve bridle and the jumper is totally screwed.

I am curious to see this thing. Might be alright, guess we'll see...



................................................................................

Hopefully the "Mark 2" pocket will have the bottom sewn shut. If they want to get fancy, they can sew in a clear plastic window.

I think a plastic window will break.

In my opinion.
I think the way they have is a good solution. You can see that you have pushed it in enough and not to much. A pocket will probably be harder to make sure it's correct.

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Without seeing one I can envision the bridle getting pushed farther in either dressing the rig with a paddle or beating on it with a fist. The catastrophic nature of it being to far through and snagged by the trap to me means the possibility of this error should be eliminated. If it's not in far enough the trap may fail and you still have an RSL and reserve pilot chute. Too far through and if designed to release if PC takes over it may not release or again trapping bridle on both sides of elastic means death.

But I'm a pessimist. :P
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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In watching the video, I assume that if you bought a Trap-equipped container, but chose not to use the Trap feature, you could have this rigged for use with just a standard RSL?

I'm looking a getting a new container right now and don't mind an extra $250 to ensure if I want a Trap in it at some point I'll have it, but I don't know enough about it at this point to know IF this is something I want.

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How about a picture (series of pictures) of it. Just a go pro of it in action-that's all? How about a series of pictures of the device on the packing table?
Better yet, a video of it while on the table showing the trap gizmo working. Just words so far

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dpreguy

How about a picture (series of pictures) of it. Just a go pro of it in action-that's all? How about a series of pictures of the device on the packing table?
Better yet, a video of it while on the table showing the trap gizmo working. Just words so far



The first post in this thread has a link to a video. Did you even watch it? If not, go to the 2 min point to see "the trap gizmo working".
It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

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From Mirage Systems:

"You've got questions, we have answers! Check out the video on how the Trap Systems works; below our Q&A!

Q: Is there any way to “deactivate” the Trap at all? For example, can I disconnect my RSL when I do a CRW jump?

A: Yes, we designed it to be flexible to the needs of the jumper and the different type of jumps they may be doing. You have a couple of options with the Trap System:
1) You can completely deactivate it on any jump by simply disconnecting the RSL shackle from the riser.
2) You also have the option to ‘set’ or 'not set' the Trap when your reserve is being re-packed. To ‘not set’ it, your rigger would need to leave the Trap Line off and stow the reserve bridle normally (outside of the Trap). Basically just close the Trap Door and forget it. If the Trap Line is left off during repack then your RSL functions as a normal RSL. Standard Mirage RSL lanyards are black and Trap System lanyards are red. If a Trap System has been ‘not set’ during repack we strongly recommend using a standard black RSL lanyard, instead of the red one, to signal that the rig is functioning with a standard RSL.


Q: Can the Trap System release the bridle if necessary after it’s ‘Trapped’?

A: Yes. The Trap Line cinches but does not tie a knot. If the reserve pilot chute is creating more drag than the malfunctioned main, then the Trap System will allow the bridle to be released so that the reserve pilot chute can deploy the reserve.


Q: What happens if the bridle is tucked into the elastic beyond the red line?

A: If the bridle is incorrectly rigged and extends beyond the sewn circle of the Trap Loop it becomes possible for the Trap Line to cinch underneath the bridle. This would allow the bridle to escape and not be ‘trapped’. If the Trap Line is not able to trap the bridle, then you will have a normal deployment in which the reserve pilot chute deploys the reserve (good news), but you will also end up with damage to the Trap elastic which will need to be repaired (bad news).


Q: Why is the bottom of the elastic left open instead of sewn closed to form a pocket?

A: The bottom of the trap elastic is left open to not hinder the elasticity for holding or releasing the bridle. When the bottom of the elastic was secured during testing, the tendency in packing was to overstuff the bridle into the elastic to ensure it wasn’t being ‘pushed out’ and resulted in a rounded lump inside the elastic. The open bottom is easier to pack, easier to inspect, and allows the bridle to be inserted the full depth of the elastic.


Q: Are you accepting orders for the Trap System?

A: Yes, it’s an option on our order form. If you have an order in process and wish to add the Trap System, please contact our front office as quickly as possible."

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skydiverek

From Mirage Systems:

"You've got questions, we have answers! Check out the video on how the Trap Systems works; below our Q&A!

Q: Is there any way to “deactivate” the Trap at all? For example, can I disconnect my RSL when I do a CRW jump?

A: Yes, we designed it to be flexible to the needs of the jumper and the different type of jumps they may be doing. You have a couple of options with the Trap System:
1) You can completely deactivate it on any jump by simply disconnecting the RSL shackle from the riser.
2) You also have the option to ‘set’ or 'not set' the Trap when your reserve is being re-packed. To ‘not set’ it, your rigger would need to leave the Trap Line off and stow the reserve bridle normally (outside of the Trap). Basically just close the Trap Door and forget it. If the Trap Line is left off during repack then your RSL functions as a normal RSL. Standard Mirage RSL lanyards are black and Trap System lanyards are red. If a Trap System has been ‘not set’ during repack we strongly recommend using a standard black RSL lanyard, instead of the red one, to signal that the rig is functioning with a standard RSL.


Q: Can the Trap System release the bridle if necessary after it’s ‘Trapped’?

A: Yes. The Trap Line cinches but does not tie a knot. If the reserve pilot chute is creating more drag than the malfunctioned main, then the Trap System will allow the bridle to be released so that the reserve pilot chute can deploy the reserve.


Q: What happens if the bridle is tucked into the elastic beyond the red line?

A: If the bridle is incorrectly rigged and extends beyond the sewn circle of the Trap Loop it becomes possible for the Trap Line to cinch underneath the bridle. This would allow the bridle to escape and not be ‘trapped’. If the Trap Line is not able to trap the bridle, then you will have a normal deployment in which the reserve pilot chute deploys the reserve (good news), but you will also end up with damage to the Trap elastic which will need to be repaired (bad news).


Q: Why is the bottom of the elastic left open instead of sewn closed to form a pocket?

A: The bottom of the trap elastic is left open to not hinder the elasticity for holding or releasing the bridle. When the bottom of the elastic was secured during testing, the tendency in packing was to overstuff the bridle into the elastic to ensure it wasn’t being ‘pushed out’ and resulted in a rounded lump inside the elastic. The open bottom is easier to pack, easier to inspect, and allows the bridle to be inserted the full depth of the elastic.


Q: Are you accepting orders for the Trap System?

A: Yes, it’s an option on our order form. If you have an order in process and wish to add the Trap System, please contact our front office as quickly as possible."



Well, the Trap guru at Mirage is definitely following this thread :)
"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

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Q: Can the Trap System release the bridle if necessary after it’s ‘Trapped’?

A: Yes. The Trap Line cinches but does not tie a knot. If the reserve pilot chute is creating more drag than the malfunctioned main, then the Trap System will allow the bridle to be released so that the reserve pilot chute can deploy the reserve.
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humm on others MARD like Skyhook, Boost, Air anchor, we can clearly see the bridle linked to an external device which holds everything together and stay free to release during the main pulling effort because it is located outside or on the bridle, but the Trap locks the bridle inside, I do not see how the Trap stops itself to tie the bridle during main pulling effort. it would be interesting to see how much it is tied once on the ground after a cutaway action......

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eric.fradet

Q: Can the Trap System release the bridle if necessary after it’s ‘Trapped’?

A: Yes. The Trap Line cinches but does not tie a knot. If the reserve pilot chute is creating more drag than the malfunctioned main, then the Trap System will allow the bridle to be released so that the reserve pilot chute can deploy the reserve.
___________________________________________________________
humm on others MARD like Skyhook, Boost, Air anchor, we can clearly see the bridle linked to an external device which holds everything together and stay free to release during the main pulling effort because it is located outside or on the bridle, but the Trap locks the bridle inside, I do not see how the Trap stops itself to tie the bridle during main pulling effort. it would be interesting to see how much it is tied once on the ground after a cutaway action......



I think what Mirage means is, if the reserve pilot chute is pulling significantly harder than the cutaway main (for whatever reason), the loop of reserve bridle that is "trapped" in the trap line cinch will pull itself out (because the cinch is loose enough) and the two will separate. Seems reasonable but hard to know without really seeing one in action up close.

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peter.draper


'Lasso' would be a better name :)
or even "Lariat"

I figure "Snatch" would've gone more inline with their old advertising techniques though.:)
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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peter.draper wrote:

'Lasso' would be a better name Smile.

or even "Lariat"



That's what we called it when we first looked at development of the MARD idea Eric Fradet brought to us some 20+/- years ago. Jarrett named it the "Air Snare" when we developed and rejected it several years ago. We just don't need it. It is slower than a conventional deployment at high speeds and the same at low speeds.

I believe it is better to depend on a good pilot chute with a good launch and high drag which is consistent, rather than a malfunctioned main which has infinite variable drag capabilities.

The first thing we don't need is complexity. The second thing we don't need is inconsistency. "KISS"

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Please tell us why the current Power Racer reserve pilot-chute is so much better than a ragged-out MA-1.



Drop them side by side from any reasonable height and you will be able to see for yourself.

When they are new, both perform exactly the same in the wind tunnel or from a free drop. Old ones of either type will not do as well as new ones but not by much.

FYI: The Power Racer Pilot Chute (SRP) is the one with the 4 inch diameter top and the 32 inch diameter canopy. The MA-1 has a 36 inch canopy and a 6 inch top. The MA-1 has a publisher Cd of .65. The SRP has a published Cd of .83. Calculate the Cd*So (effective size) of both and you will understand the similarity. Remember Pilot chute terminal occurs at about .6 seconds after inflation/release as opposed to humans who take about 12 seconds to reach terminal after launch.

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From Mirage's public Facebook page:

QUESTION:
And how does it handle RSL-side riser release (without Collins Lanyard, obviously)?

MIRAGE'S ANSWER:
Mirage RSL's have always been built without an RSL side riser release system (Collin's lanyard). This is also true of the Trap System RSL. Every system has advantages and disadvantages and Mirage favors simpler designs whenever possible. A secondary riser release is not beneficial in every situation. For example: if the white type 2A loop that goes through the small 3-ring were to break while making final turns for landing, a secondary riser release would not be desirable since a partial canopy at low altitude will almost always be preferable to no canopy.
Mirage builds its main risers with the RSL ring below the confluence wrap and grommet specifically to reduce the risk of an RSL side riser release (see image). If an RSL side riser release were to occur, the recommended procedure for either a standard RSL or a Trap System RSL is for the jumper to pull both the cutaway handle and reserve ripcord IF AND ONLY IF they are at a safe cutaway altitude. If they are below a safe cutaway altitude then it is up to the jumper to decide if they prefer to land only the malfunctioned main or pull their reserve also.
Photo was attached: https://scontent-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/11157429_830515283704092_770289413077792426_o.jpg


QUESTION:
What about a horse shoe mal where the container is open and pilot chute still in the BOC?

MIRAGE'S ANSWER:
Horseshoes are a dreaded malfunction. In the event of a horseshoe malfunction a jumper must decide whether to cutaway one half of the horseshoe in an attempt to provide more clear air for the reserve to deploy, or to deploy the reserve into the horseshoe. Most jumpers prefer to cutaway and then try to keep the still attached main from entangling with the reserve. Since an RSL is activated by the main risers disconnecting, if the jumper doesn't cutaway but instead only pulls the reserve ripcord, then the Trap System won't engage.

If the jumper cuts away and the risers release, the Trap System would engage but may be unable to take the freebag to line extension if the main is still attached to the jumper. If the reserve pilot chute finds clear air and is generating more drag than the still attached main, the Trap System will release the bridle and allow the reserve pilot chute to finish the deployment.

An example of a Trap release can be seen on the last jump of this video at 4:21. The reserve pilot chute quickly generates more drag than the bag-lock, so the Trap releases the bridle and the reserve pilot chute finishes the deployment.

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