DSE 3
PeterB 0
QuoteThere are those to whom your 1200 jumps ain't shit ... and those to whom my 6000 jumps ain't shit. It's all relative, and numbers of jumps don't impress me that much.
Yeah, I kinda tried to emphasize that. Guess I didn't do it strongly enough. I'm a noob, I haven't got any instructional ratings and I'm not interested in getting them either.
Number of jumps aren't magical. They can be used as an indicator though. A 100 jump guy probably doesn't have the experience and skill to fly an 83 Velo.
Somewhere you have to draw the line with regards to coaching and getting instructor ratings. My feeling is that 100 jumps is too little. Of course there are the historical argument that it was done in the past. Could be argued that the sport has evolved and it can be pointed out that lots of really dumb shit also was just part of the scene a while back.
I don't think 100 jump coaches are inherently unsafe. It's that the skillset for the average 100 jump guy just ain't enough for teaching others how to properly maneuver in freefall. In my opinion.
StephZ 0
Quotethen again, I'm not 19, cute, and female.
Dude
Just hate the game... And I'm going for my rating, I'd like to rally your support
I am not afraid . . . I was born to do this
-Joan of Arc-
But what do I know, I'm only 19
dorbie 0
Quote
I don't think 100 jump coaches are inherently unsafe. It's that the skillset for the average 100 jump guy just ain't enough for teaching others how to properly maneuver in freefall. In my opinion.
A better question is, is it reasonably safe after a coach signoff for them to do a bit of fun RW with students who are not permitted to jump with ordinary jumpers. How many 30 jump students do you help keep in the sport each visit to the DZ? People with a calling for this who are willing to go through a coach course should be permitted to.
I don't think jumpers who start threads with titles like "100 jump wonders" are the type who help inculcate new AFF grads (10 jump wonders), DSE's insight excepted.
DougH 270
Quote...rally your support
Is that would you people are calling it now a days. 
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P
=P
jheadley 0
QuoteQuote
I don't think 100 jump coaches are inherently unsafe. It's that the skillset for the average 100 jump guy just ain't enough for teaching others how to properly maneuver in freefall. In my opinion.
A better question is, is it reasonably safe after a coach signoff for them to do a bit of fun RW with students who are not permitted to jump with ordinary jumpers. How many 30 jump students do you help keep in the sport each visit to the DZ? People with a calling for this who are willing to go through a coach course should be permitted to.
I don't think jumpers who start threads with titles like "100 jump wonders" are the type who help inculcate new AFF grads (10 jump wonders), DSE's insight excepted.
What I would really like to see coaches do more of is just jump with the new A license holders (paying his own slot). I hear of so many people who get their license and then quit the sport 50 jumps later, because nobody will jump with them, or they're to shy to ask someone to jump with them, and they get bored doing solos. This is something I think a 100 jump coach could do well.
peek 20
QuoteI don't think 100 jump coaches are inherently unsafe. It's that the skillset for the average 100 jump guy just ain't enough for teaching others how to properly maneuver in freefall. In my opinion.
A national organization might create a rating that tries to insure that a skydiver teaching the basics of freefall and canopy control has a reasonable idea of how to do that safely. That is the intent of the USPA Coach rating (as far as I know and as far as I have heard it discussed.)
As to whether the rating needed to be created after essentially doing away with the USPA Jumpmaster rating, well, that is an entirely different discussion. :)
I guess it depends on what you mean by "properly" maneuver in freefall. If you are talking about freefall skills as related to formation skydiving and competition, well, it would be best for a novice skydiver to go to someone like a Skydive U coach or course.
But most student (unlicensed) skydivers are simply in need of someone to teach them how to learn/improve their skills and to be safe.
A related comment:
I know that there are a lot of people out there that think that student skydivers should have the very best skills training available in order "not to learn any bad habits", (one of the ways I have heard it put.)
But if we don't allow students to do some jumps during their student training that are simply fun, and where they aren't required to try to perform to some standard, I think we are at risk of losing some students because they aren't having much fun.
PeterB 0
QuoteA national organization might create a rating that tries to insure that a skydiver teaching the basics of freefall and canopy control has a reasonable idea of how to do that safely. That is the intent of the USPA Coach rating (as far as I know and as far as I have heard it discussed.)
This is fair enough. I'm just not on board with the idea that 100 jumps is enough. The statistics may prove me wrong though.
Quote
As to whether the rating needed to be created after essentially doing away with the USPA Jumpmaster rating, well, that is an entirely different discussion. :)
Yeah I guess this is probably what's bothering me the most. The jumpmaster rating was pretty solid IMO. This 'coach' thing is also lends itself well to either charging others or not paying your own slot. This bugs me because that ain't what skydiving should be about especially as a student. Share the passion is way better than seeing a student as a way to cash in or get free jumps.
No comment on the rest, you make very valid points and I can only second them.
Dorbie, I jump with everyone. Small DZ so the socialising and sharing comes as a natural part of the environment. I'm no saint in any way. It's just easy to want to help out when everyone at the DZ already are.
QuoteFrom my relatively inexperienced view, isn't a coach effectively only going to be working with the jumpers with say...10 to 50/60 skydives?
7 to 24 skydives, after which students become licensed jumpers with no regulatory limits on who they can jump with.
ozzy13 0
7 to 24 skydives
You mean 8 to 25 right
You mean 8 to 25 right
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!
Quote7 to 24 skydives
You mean 8 to 25 right
7-24. The jump the student is going on doesn't count because it hasn't been completed yet.
ozzy13 0
QuoteQuote7 to 24 skydives
You mean 8 to 25 right
7-24. The jump the student is going on doesn't count because it hasn't been completed yet.
Ok thanks LOL for clearing that up
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!
DJL 232
QuoteI dont think I am doing it to coach though .I just want to learn more .
You don't actually learn much in the Coach's Course, the term "Course" is a bit of a misnomer. It should be called "Coach's Evaluation". You are supposed to show up with the knowledge and skills required to coach the appropriate levels. You then review the course material and establish the evaluation guidlines by which you'll be tested.
Taking the course for the purposes of learning is a waste of your time. If you want to learn about coaching then read a book on the subject.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher
That ain't saying much, my friend.
The sad thing is, I knew that. neither one of us is gonna win any beauty contests, but you've got me beat in personality, bud.
I hope you get to try to toss me out of the Porter again sometime soon.