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mxk

UPT semi-stowless bag with Dacron lines

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Does anyone have experience with this combination? I'm planning on getting the Vector 3 V358 for a Spectre 230, which is the largest size that is available with a semi-stowless d-bag.

My concern is whether the extra bulk and higher friction of Dacron lines may present a problem for packing, deployment, or line wear. I will send this question to UPT as well, but I'd like to know if anyone here has some first-hand experience to share.

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I received one reply by PM. Reposting it here for anyone else who may be interested in this:

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I have a couple v-355's. Pretty much the same size bag. Sized for 190 - 230. I have a Navigator 220 with Dacron in one.

The lines are bulky in the bag tuck flap when they are stowed but it works well. I haven't seen any funny wear. Once the bag is used a bit it takes a shape and just folds up nice. You get a knack for s-folding the bulky lines inside each other. Bring the bag to the container and put it beside the lines before you wrap.

I use the big elastics sprayed with silicone spray and double wrapped. They last a very long time.

Note : - The line bulk goes to the back pad with this bag instead of the bottom BOC area. - This changes how the bottom of the container feels and gave me dimples where the line stows ended.

With the regular bag the whole bottom of the container was fuller because of the bulk of the Dacron lines.

I use a free-fly hacky and there is a little loose spot now where the line stows end and the side flap cover where the hacky tucks in. I used a little longer loops in my stows. Thie longer loops of line stows filled out the low spot and the hacky tuck flap stays in place better.

It bothered me a bit at first but now I am used to it.

With a non-tab hacky you may not even notice the difference in line bulk distribution and how it fills the area near the botton-side flap at the mouth of the BOC.

End result .... I would never use anything else. I don't know why anyone would want the older bag. But that is just me.



Still looking for more feedback.

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I'd give it a go.
I'm no expert - BUT:
My guess would be that line wear wouldn't be as bad as it would be from already existing causes like the slider coming down the lines - or brake lines rubbing up and down inside as you give toggle input - sure there might be some wear but they're not under lots of tension as they come out of the bag pocket.
Sure, more bulk might be a problem for packing, but either they'll go in there or not.
Give it a go, you've got a reserve. :)

P.S. Done around 300 jumps now on the UPT semi stowless bag for a V353, but with spectra lines. I found that lines were coming out in clumps early on but that might have been my bad packing technique, seems to be OK now.

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johnmatrix

I'd give it a go.
I'm no expert - BUT:
My guess would be that line wear wouldn't be as bad as it would be from already existing causes like the slider coming down the lines - or brake lines rubbing up and down inside as you give toggle input - sure there might be some wear but they're not under lots of tension as they come out of the bag pocket.
Sure, more bulk might be a problem for packing, but either they'll go in there or not.
Give it a go, you've got a reserve. :)

P.S. Done around 300 jumps now on the UPT semi stowless bag for a V353, but with spectra lines. I found that lines were coming out in clumps early on but that might have been my bad packing technique, seems to be OK now.



What main and reserve are you using with the V353?

Were you getting hard openings initially? How did you know that the lines are coming out in clumps?

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PD 176, and Sabre2 190.
Someone was filming me on a few jumps and I saw it there. Since then I've gotten more footage from rear facing camera that looks a lot better.

No hard openings though, my openings definitely improved.

The openings will be faster, but not necessarily harder.
From container opening to line stretch is what is sped up by not having stows - during this phase you're not really decelerating at all.

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You can feel it sometimes.

I've had like 3 or 4 that clumped up. That be my best guess since I have no idea what is happening behind me, but what I do know is that those 3 or 4 times, I'll feel the container pop and linestrech then nothing for a second. Every time when that happens, I wonder what can possibly hang up only with two rubber band. I never had on heading opening with those. They will always come out with couple linetwist
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

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johnmatrix

***Bring the bag to the container and put it beside the lines before you wrap.



I prefer pulling the container towards the bag while spooling the lines, to maintain tension.

How do you maintain the tension when you grab the next loop of lines?
I know it's easier to keep the lines even and get good looking loops but it should not make any difference. (unless you over do it sloppy)

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There is no tension there.
You lay the lines flat and they are 'just lines'.

You can create tension in a line by pulling it on both sides, or with rubberband and keeping the rubberband stretched, etc.
But laying lines on the ground is not tension.

When you drag rig across the floor (and puting wear on it) there is tension in the lines, but when you lay the lines there is no tension.
Thus, how do you "maintain" the tension? As you said.
You can get the same "tension" (if thats what you want to call it) by moving the bag to the rig and grabing the lines with both hands and pull it tight. Quicker, easier, and no wear on the rig.

You can pack however you want, but there is no tension in tailpockets/no stow bags.

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mxk

Does anyone have experience with this combination? I'm planning on getting the Vector 3 V358 for a Spectre 230, which is the largest size that is available with a semi-stowless d-bag.

My concern is whether the extra bulk and higher friction of Dacron lines may present a problem for packing, deployment, or line wear. I will send this question to UPT as well, but I'd like to know if anyone here has some first-hand experience to share.




I believe I've seen it done. It was at least a 210 and maybe a 230 with Dacron lines. It worked. If I remember, the line pouch was a little tight but I wasn't paying very close attention.

Here's what I can tell you from first hand knowledge. I've been using them for a couple of years. I have one from UPT and one from Sunpath. I prefer the UPT but only by a little. I jump mostly Crossfires. My openings were good but they got better. My packing is a little easier and I'm completely spoiled on this design. I wouldn't want to imagine a world where I went back to the old bags. Just buy it. I can pretty much guarantee that if you don't like it you can unload it quickly... But you won't.

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What I mean is that there is tension in the lines between your hand and the rig.
As opposed to moving the bag to the container and just spooling them in there from a big lump on the ground with no tension in there at all.

I'm not saying anyone should do one way or another, just trying to explain why I do it the way I do. I just prefer it that way. I'd do it your way too if I felt like it but I'm just in a different habit.

As you mention - yes, there is no tension in tailpockets/stowless bags.
And also yes, dragging the rig across the floor probably isn't ideal but neither is a tension knot.

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Why do you believe the likelyhood of tension knots is higher when moving the bag to the rig?
Is there any evidence of it yet?
Has anyone with a stowless bag had a tension knot yet?

I believe tension knots is one of the rarest malfunctions, so it would be intereting if we have seen this malfunction becoming more 'trendy' with stowless bags.

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When you mean moving the bag to the rig - do you mean, stowing the lines bit by bit and shuffling the bag along as you do so?
Or do you mean picking the bag up, putting it next to the rig, and stowing all the lines then?

Because it's the latter method that I was talking about - I think it is much more likely to end up with oddly ordered lines.
The former method I would think is fine, I just prefer dragging my rig as I can sit in one place and do it.

As for tension knots - I've never had one, don't know of anyone having one with a stowless bag, so you'd have to ask someone with more experience than me I think.

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I sent this question to Sandy Grillet and he forwarded it to a couple of people at UPT. According to the UPT tour rep (Greg Rau?), the semi-stowless bag and Dacron lines combination should work fine. Scott Roberts, the designer of the bag, said that "the bigger bulk makes it a bit harder to pack, but there is not a friction issue in my experience."

Based on that, I'm going with the semi-stowless bag for my rig. Expecting it to arrive in January, so that's when I'll know for sure whether I made the right decision :)

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