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chriscchristoph

Pilot 168 to Storm 170

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The other day at the DZ I was chatting with some people about what I would like to downsize to when the time comes, and it wont be soon so dont worry. But the topic came up that if I downsize from a pilot 168 to say a Sabre 2 150 it would be a drastic change because of how flat the pilot is.

So my plan is to change my canopy from the pilot I currently fly at 1.19 to a Storm 170. I know the 7 cell will be a little bit different as well. More than anything I just want to hear what yall think about this mindset of changing canopy types at the same size to better prepare for when I do downsize down the road.

Im definitely planning on talking to my rigger along with other people I know that are qualified to give me advice. So im not going to rely solely on this forum to make my decision, but I am curious to see what yall think.

Thanks in advance,
Chris

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I'm curious why you think changing to a completely different canopy (Pilot to Storm) would prepare you for a downsize. That does not compute IMO. If you want to try new things, go for it... but that doesn't seem necessary to me.

If anything, go grab a 10lb weight belt and see how your Pilot flies when loaded up a bit more. That would be a little more relevant IMO.

Pilot and Sabre2 are in the same ballpark so I wouldn't expect any surprises. Those canopies and stuff like the Fusion and Safire 1 & 2 all fly very similarly. Mushier stuff would be like a Pulse or Silhouette and a notch up would be Stiletto, Nitron, Zulu... full-retard non-cross-braced are loaded up Katanas, Samurai, Crossfires, and the Mamba.

BTW, you should talk to your local canopy coach before doing anything crazy and just because someone has a rigger's ticket, doesn't necessarily mean they have a lot of canopy piloting experience.

Have fun!
NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

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I once had a Spectre 170 for two years and at least to me,
I found out that a 9-cell canopy was easier to land....however, I am quite certain someone else will have an opposite opinion !!!
Since, you already know about Pilots, why not downsize to a Pilot 150...seems more logical to me than to look at a variety of different canopy types and a lot less confusing. Then, once you have mastered the 150, you would be able to make you own decision , trying various canopies of your own choice...
Surely riggers have knowledge on a variety of skydiving' subjects and topics...in spite of that, skydivers with experience on a multitude of canopies, are usually the best !

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If you are planing go to a sabre2 150 then demo a sabre2 170. You may be even able to trade your pilot for a sabre2 or even sell your pilot and buy a sabre2.

I do like to test jump other stuff a lot to. It just lets me see how other canopies fly and is tons of fun too. Just remember to do hop n pops on unfamiliar canopies.

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A Pilot has a very flat glide. The Storm in comparison will fall out of the sky. It has a much steeper glide. The Storm will have a nice flare from top of toggle stoke to the bottom. I have found the Pilot has a weak reaction in the toggle stroke at the top, but becomes stronger as you flare and a powerful flare in deep stroke. If you don't finish your flare deeply on the Pilot, your landing will suck. I have long arms so not a problem, but for folks with short arms, I don't suggest the Pilot.

YMMV

If you like the flat glide of the Pilot but want a better flare, look at the Nitron. Ask your local canopy coaches/instructors if it might be something for you to try. At a 170, it would be more sporty than a Pilot, at a 150, it would be zippy. At your jump number/experience, I would suggest sporty before zippy.
50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

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If you are used to the Pilot 169, you will not find a drastic difference with the Sabre 2-150. The Sabred 2 has a pitch angle of about 15.34 degrees and the Pilot of 15.06 degrees. But the Sabre seems to have more loading weight distribution on the front lines which makes it to dive a bit more than the Pilot and allowing more forward speed (and a stronger flare). This is IMO an advantage to provide a more accurate "streering wheel". Also the Sabre 2-150 is probably actually a 155-160+ like it's the case for many Performance Designs canopies.
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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monkycndo

A Pilot has a very flat glide. The Storm in comparison will fall out of the sky. It has a much steeper glide. The Storm will have a nice flare from top of toggle stoke to the bottom. I have found the Pilot has a weak reaction in the toggle stroke at the top, but becomes stronger as you flare and a powerful flare in deep stroke. If you don't finish your flare deeply on the Pilot, your landing will suck. I have long arms so not a problem, but for folks with short arms, I don't suggest the Pilot.

YMMV

If you like the flat glide of the Pilot but want a better flare, look at the Nitron. Ask your local canopy coaches/instructors if it might be something for you to try. At a 170, it would be more sporty than a Pilot, at a 150, it would be zippy. At your jump number/experience, I would suggest sporty before zippy.








I agree that both the Pilot and the Nitron are flat glide canopies and the Nitron/Nitro even more...
( why not get the real thing, the Nitro ? )
However, the Nitron/Nitro needs to be loaded, and I believe this is not what chriscchristoph is looking for at this time !
The Nitro/Nitron is slightly more elliptical than the Pilot
therefore, approx. a foot on both side, surely more sporty !
Both Pilots and Nitrons are short recovery arc canopies.
I still believe that a Pilot 150 would be the best, since the subject knows about Pilots !
A Pilot 168 is 20.53 X 8.42 X 7.16
and a Pilot 150 is 19.40 X 7.95 X 6.77
More sporty, a bit more speed, more flare !
And the openings on Pilots are great !

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erdnarob

If you are used to the Pilot 169, you will not find a drastic difference with the Sabre 2-150. The Sabred 2 has a pitch angle of about 15.34 degrees and the Pilot of 15.06 degrees. But the Sabre seems to have more loading weight distribution on the front lines which makes it to dive a bit more than the Pilot and allowing more forward speed (and a stronger flare). This is IMO an advantage to provide a more accurate "streering wheel". Also the Sabre 2-150 is probably actually a 155-160+ like it's the case for many Performance Designs canopies.




I agree the difference wouldn't be drastic from a Pilot 168 to a Sabre2-150 ! Yet, there would be a difference !
Generally, Pilots opens better than Sabre2, a Sabre2 is not famed for its openings, nevertheless the Sabre2 has a much more powerful bottom end, a longer recovery arc, trimmed steeper and will provide more speed.
It will provide a better aggressive piloting experience !
If Chris has in his distant future plans, to practice swooping, the Sabre2 would be a good choice/start !
If not, for example, to come back from a long spot is important to him, there would be better choices...
Pilots are short recovery arc canopies.
Concerning the real size of a PDSabre2-150 this is complex,
since many manufacturers are using various methods for sizing their canopies ! If you say a Sabre2 is probably a 160, therefore a Pilot 168 could be, for example, also be a 178 !!!
Then, this would be a difference.
However, for now
a Pilot 168 is 20.53 X 8.42/7.16
a Sabre2-150 is 19.67 X 7.28/6.69

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