Closing pins piercing bridles - Total Malfunction

[Skydivesg 6]

I posted this to my Facebook page this morning and it seems to have taken off with several hundred shares.

I've been asked by several people to post it here.

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This happened, over the Labor Day weekend, to a wing suiter on the West Coast. Thank you, Ed Pawlowski, for the pictures.

The closing pin penetrated the bridle before it was extracted from the closing loop, resulting in a pilot-chute-in-tow-malfunction.

This can happen to anyone who routes the bridle from the top but it is more likely on a wing suit jump, due to having a lot of forward speed at bridle extension.

Everyone, please STOP routing the bridle from top to bottom over the pin. We don't need to put Kevlar on our bridles or task the manufacturers to fix our packing problems. We simply need to use some common sense and critical thinking skills to evaluate our container closing technique and evolve ourselves out of the 80's and 90's mentality.

Oh - and maybe 1000 jumps on one PC and bridle might be enough - don't you think?

I and others, including Ed, have been trying to spread the word and slowly, but surely, we are making headway - including the professional packers with whom I speak.

The last two pictures are of my rigs showing how I've been routing my bridle for the past 15 years. It works on any container and with a little thought, regardless of pin/window configuration, you can make the window face up - allowing someone to pin check you without having to touch anything.

If you have any reason to disagree, please send me a PM or post here and we will have a civil debate on the merits of this bridle routing method.

Please help me and others spread the word. It is my belief that - Together - we can eliminate pilot-chute-in-tow-malfunctions caused by pierced bridles.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[hackish 8]

If you have a look at the Vector 3 manual (as probably many skydivers have not) you will note that this is listed as a possible method. This type of malfunction has shown up a few times in the last 5 years but it still isn't very common.

-Michael

[riggerrob 558]

Moderators ........
Please combine this thread with last year's thread about the Service Bulletin published by United Parachute Technologies (aka the Vector factory) about the same problem.
Flying High (aka the Sidewinder factory) published the same solution 20-plus years ago.

[strife 0]

couple of articles from previous discussions

http://parachutistonline.com/safety_training/ask_a_rigger/bridle-concerns

http://unitedparachutetechnologies.com/PDF/Support/Sport/ALTERNATIVE_MAIN_CONTAINER_CLOSING_TIP_INSTRUCT-027_Rev-0.pdf

[shancat1 0]

Can you do this with any type of container? I have a Mirage. Can somebody please explain how the bridle can be pierced? This is my worst nightmare....

[baronn 111]

This has been analyzed before. I witnessed this not once but twice. We concluded the bridle was tightly packed under the top flap. When the PC is inflated, it exerts enuff force to push the pin thru the bridle. Age and condition if the PC and bridle didn't seem to be the overwhelming factor. The bridle being tucked tightly under the top flap appeared to be. Follow the above advice and stow under bottom or put enuff slack to give the bridle room to extract without being pierced. Easy fix.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Some time ago I reverted to old school and now bring my bridle up from the bottom, same way we did in the early 80's . Problem solved.

[DHemer 0]

This is also the only recommended method for routing the bridle on a parachute systems Vortex II since Nov 2013

http://www.parachutesystems.co.za/safety

[peek 20]

I would like information about exactly how the bridle was routed, the position of the pin, and the main flap arrangement that led to these bridle piercings. Does anyone have that information? I don't think we can assume that the bridles were routed "like the manual says". There are variations that people use.

For a particular flap arrangement, who can tell whether their protective flap remains in the pocket for which it was designed or does it get pulled out? For example, my Talon 3 flap stays stowed after deployment. My other rigs are older and by design will not remain stowed. (Tongue or "walrus tooth.")

From what direction is the bridle really being pulled, and why?

I think that if we get some data on these things that we might be able to determine a cause for the bridle piercings.

[theplummeter 14]

While I have always routed the bridle to the side opposite the pin (bridle stays on the right side, pin points left) it wasn't until I took a wingsuit course with Chuck Blue in Eloy that I even thought of routing the bridle the way shown in Sandy's pictures, coming up from under the flap and then right back down under. I think this is the third time I've seen photos of a perforated bridle in as many years.

[riggerrob 558]

Gary,
i see your comments as 2 distinct issues. Your first comment covers pin cover design and your second comment concerns bridle routing.
May I address the issue of pin cover design?
All modern pin covers re-connect to themselves. The most popular (Icon, Mirage & Vector) pin covers are sewn to the top main flap and tuck back upwards into a pocket on the top main flap.
The second most popular (Infinity and Javelin) pin cover pattern still has the pin cover sewn to the main top flap, but it tucks downwards under the lower edge of the main top flap. Even if you sew a strong magnet into a Javelin pin cover the main still opens normally and the magnets stay closed until it returns to the packing mat.
The key point is that neither type of pin cover has to release/pull away from the main top flap during a normal opening.
IOW modern pin covers still work with a variety of bridle routines.
The last time we saw main pin covers that needed to separate was circa 1980. Can you remember Velcro-closed main pin covers on Wonderhogs? Wonderhog bridles stripped open the Velcro during every opening. They needed precise bridle-routing to tear the main pin cover open.
IOW If you miss-routed the bridle on a Wonderhog, fresh Velcro continued to holdthe container closed.

[bucketlistpilot 1]

3 best thing I've learned in my 5 short years

1. Psycho Pack
2. Brian Germaine's method for pilot chute's
3. This way of closing

All 3 guarantee some weird looks from the newb's

Ian Purvis
http://www.loadupsoftware.com
LoadUp DZ Management App
[email protected]

[councilman24 36]

I spent some time trying to get it to happen on the ground. I was using an FXC 12000 to pull the bridle. Fastest thing I could think of. Could not get it to happen. As best I can figure the bridle is being pulled over the pin before the pin is loaded. I believe longer pin attachment tape (I've seen longer than this one) and not only position of bridle and pin but slack or no slack in pin tape is important. I did some rough calculations once on the speed the bridle would be going by the pin before loading the pin. Even when I decreased my assumed speed by 90% it was still something crazy fast.

There were reasons that we did it the way we did but those reasons may be long gone. Bottom up is easier than figuring out mechanism and preventing it, but I still do it old school.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[peek 20]

riggerrob

All modern pin covers re-connect to themselves.

This is one of my concerns. When we suggest a "new" method of routing a bridle, we must let everyone know which rigs on which this method is suitable. We must not assume that a person has a "modern" rig. Some people blindly follow suggestions to change to something "new" without asking someone knowledgeable about the ramifications of doing so.

I would like to figure out what is really going on before I suggest a "new" method of anything.

[pchapman 261]

peek

I would like information about exactly how the bridle was routed, the position of the pin, and the main flap arrangement that led to these bridle piercings.

Ditto.

Heck, even BASE rigs often have similar routings (although there can be subtle differences).

Clearly the pin can't pierce the bridle unless the tip of the pin contacts the bridle.

So one technique has been to not lay the bridle right on top of the whole pin. But when the bridle is packed clear of the tip of the pin, it is unclear to what degree the bridle might shift around while in the airplane, or during the deployment sequence.

So do all packing methods with the "bridle coming down from the top" risk the bridle getting in the way of the pin, or does it only happen to some of them?

In skydivesg's pics, it looks like the closing flap order of left, right, allows the bridle to have slid over to the left closer to the pin tip, if the pin had been oriented pointing to the left.

(That matches the Javelin manual. I notice that while an old Javelin manual shows the pin off to the side of the bridle, despite the pin oriented up and down, one newer manual both mentions the pin oriented up and down and also shows the bridle covering the pin completely! This might be a riskier bridle placement strategy.)

The problem seems very hard to replicate on the ground in relatively slow motion, where the forces are smaller and it seems impossible to get the pin to directly stab the bridle, or drag the bridle into a position where it can grind and stab its way into the bridle.



One USPA link was included in this thread already. Another good one is:

http://parachutistonline.com/content/pierced-bridles-problems

This in turn has links to 3 more USPA pages.

[hillson 0]

pchapman

Clearly the pin can't pierce the bridle unless the tip of the pin contacts the bridle.

Here's another one for you (pin caught in kill line window)...this was on a Wings. Not mine...was just there for the show after the fact.

[mxk 1]

councilman24

As best I can figure the bridle is being pulled over the pin before the pin is loaded. I believe longer pin attachment tape (I've seen longer than this one) and not only position of bridle and pin but slack or no slack in pin tape is important.

You can figure out just how much slack there was in the pin tape by aligning the tip of the pin with the hole, where it would have been to initiate the puncture. From the 3rd and 4th attachments, you can estimate that the bridle was able to travel ~1cm before the pin tape was under tension.

It is very easy to introduce this slack if you tuck the top part of the bridle before the bottom part. I always tuck the bottom first, making sure that the pin tape is under tension. This makes it impossible for the bridle laying on top of the pin to move while the pin remains stationary. Even so, I think switching to bottom routing is probably a better idea and will do that from now on.

[pchapman 261]

councilman24

As best I can figure the bridle is being pulled over the pin before the pin is loaded.

I think that's an alternate theory worth looking at more, if one is talking about the bridle whipping about during the the deployment sequence, and not simply the more common idea of the bridle getting moved about before the jump.

So that line of inquiry is more about the bridle impaling itself on the pin, rather than the pin always being the one to catch and impale the bridle.

[faulknerwn 36]

I saw it once on an Icon rig with a hybrid Triathlon bridle (dacron line instead of the standard bridle.) Not sure how it was routed prior to the jump.

[Doug_Davis 0]

pchapman

(That matches the Javelin manual. I notice that while an old Javelin manual shows the pin off to the side of the bridle, despite the pin oriented up and down, one newer manual both mentions the pin oriented up and down and also shows the bridle covering the pin completely! This might be a riskier bridle placement strategy.)

The problem seems very hard to replicate on the ground in relatively slow motion, where the forces are smaller and it seems impossible to get the pin to directly stab the bridle, or drag the bridle into a position where it can grind and stab its way into the bridle.



One USPA link was included in this thread already. Another good one is:

http://parachutistonline.com/content/pierced-bridles-problems

This in turn has links to 3 more USPA pages.

So as a newer jumper and a Javelin owner I was fairly worried about this. Especially since the standard factory method of packing a Jav is routing the bridle from top to bottom directly over the pin.

Having given a lot of thought to this, though I am admittedly stoned out of my gourd on cold medication as of right now, the best I can figure it the bridle is being pierced during packing, perhaps as the top flap is being closed? Old birdle? Easily pierced? You push the top flap down and into place and its just enough force to slide the bridle down and onto the pin?

Because under normal circumstances of deployment, with a pin routed from bottom to top, and the PC pulling the pin from the bottom, and having slack on the bridle at the top....I dont see how it could happen. Which might be why no one has been able to recreate it? As its not actually happening during deployment but during packing/closing the top flap?

Thoughts?

Edit- Having played with my rig here in the office some, it appears there is definitely enough slack between the pin and bridle for the PC to pull the bridle down on to the pin, before it pulls on the pin. Oh well, I thought I had a good hypothesis.

[kellja2001 0]

pchapman

Because under normal circumstances of deployment, with a pin routed from bottom to top, and the PC pulling the pin from the bottom, and having slack on the bridle at the top....I dont see how it could happen. Which might be why no one has been able to recreate it? As its not actually happening during deployment but during packing/closing the top flap?

Appreciate you've edited this, but:

Worth considering the PC pulls the bridle out "upwards", not away towards the BOC like people seem to think. When you throw that mini-parachute belly-to-earth it doesn't sprint 20ft behind you, it goes (pretty much) straight up.

This is where the curved pin comes into play. My understanding is the pin is curved to increase the force required to dislodge it if you apply a force to the "open end" of the pin (try to push your pin out with your thumb - it's difficult because the damn thing keeps rotating!).

The disadvantage of this, is when your bridle from your PC pulls tight, the pin "sits up", making a "U" shape if you're looking at the jumper side-on.

My understanding is that it's the end of this "U" striking the "tightly packed" bridle that causes it to penetrate.

If people want, I'm happy to make another educational video trying to express this more clearly?

[mcordell 2]

***

I think your understanding is wrong. I believe the pin is curved BECAUSE it is pulled from above. If the pin were straight then pulling it from above by the PC would result in the pin rotating on an axis at the closing loop and the tip of the pin digging into the rig but not necessarily being extracted. I believe pull out systems use a straight pin since the jumper is pulling the pin straight out and not from above and behind. I don't think it has anything to do with increasing pull force.

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[3mpire 0]

Some local jumpers were discussing this and one jumper was adamant that the only "correct" way to pack is what is in the manual. I don't agree with that, myself.

But I am curious what manufacturers have officially "blessed" routing the bridal from the bottom instead of the top?

[Skydivesg 6]

3mpire

Some local jumpers were discussing this and one jumper was adamant that the only "correct" way to pack is what is in the manual. I don't agree with that, myself.

But I am curious what manufacturers have officially "blessed" routing the bridal from the bottom instead of the top?

Your friend should continue to do what he believes is correct and gives him the best peace of mind. If that means following the manufacturer's manual, then so be it. Some people will never change unless they are instructed to do so by someone they believe to be of higher knowledge and authority.

I'm just not one of those people.

I've been jumping for a while and have discovered, over the years, that the manufacturer's way - is one way - and while it is often the best way it is not always the best way. Or maybe it once was the best way, but experience in the air has proven a better way.

And when people in the field find another way, sometimes the manufacturers evolve and change their manuals.


I don't need a manufacturer's blessing to use a technique I've decided, through my own research, rational critical thinking skills and common sense, is best for me. This doesn't neccessarily mean that it's best for everyone.

That's the beauty of "freedom of choice".

Hell, if I showed the way I stow my excess steering line, most people would have a conniption fit. And I promise, you won't see it in any manual. But again - it works for me and has for near 10 years.

Another thing I firmly believe is: "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still."

Choose your mentors carefully.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[3mpire 0]

Thank you--well said.