Possible device for Lost Cutaway canopy

[shropshire 0]

Just saw this on the interweb ....Tracker Bravo? - might not the the complete answer but a move in the right direction perhaps?


http://bravo.thetrackr.com/?utm_source=facebookads&utm_medium=newsfeedad&utm_campaign=trackrbike

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[EnricoPalazzo 1]

Looks nice, but this would not work.
It's not a GPS beacon, it's a Bluetooth device, range of about 100 feet. If a mobile phone with the correct app running detects the token, the phone posts a GPS signal.
For finding a canopy in the woods, a range of 100 feet (best case) is insufficient.

[vidiot 0]

BluTracker - 2500ft Range

My Logbook

[DougH 270]

I jumped on this:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1226890823/iota-never-lose-sight-of-whats-important

It was the best looking solution I have seen to date.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Hellis 0]

I agree, and I would too back this if it was worldwide

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Precision Aerodynamics (George Galloway) has sold such a system for either 8 or ten years. He designed it primarily for finding cutaway tandem mains. The tracker is the same as you use with hunting dogs.

Chuck

[stayhigh 2]

just land next to your main.

it is like inventing a pen to be used in space when you can just do it with pencil.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[DougH 270]

SkymonkeyONE

Precision Aerodynamics (George Galloway) has sold such a system for either 8 or ten years. He designed it primarily for finding cutaway tandem mains. The tracker is the same as you use with hunting dogs.

Chuck

Wasn't it pretty expensive?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Quote

Wasn't it pretty expensive?

No idea, but what's the point in reinventing the wheel here? I'm thinking the original poster did not know about the Precision product.

[skydiverek 61]

Back in 2007 it was $525 for the finder and $100 for the chip. Why didn't it cought up amongst the tandem DZs???

[sundevil777 98]

stayhigh

just land next to your main.

it is like inventing a pen to be used in space when you can just do it with pencil.

If you only jump at Eloy or somewhere similar, that is easy to do.

If you jump at a place with large areas of trees, etc., then it isn't at all so simple as just landing next to your main.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[jacketsdb23 49]

Perfect example here is Zhills especially during CP meets. I think Pat lost his new Petra there this year. There is almost nowhere to land when you chop over the swampy forest.

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

It's besides the point, but whatever: There are PLENTY of places to land in the swamp at Z-Hills. I know this from personal experience.

Back to the Precision product: The tracker is the same one used for tracking hunting dogs.

[DougH 270]

SkymonkeyONE

Quote

Wasn't it pretty expensive?

No idea, but what's the point in reinventing the wheel here? I'm thinking the original poster did not know about the Precision product.

I looked at it as cost versus function. I actually wanted to get one of those a few years back but the expense was prohibitive.

Unless you got a DZO to buy a tracker you basically had to get a tracker and a chip for yourself, and it ended up being a 600 dollar solution for one canopy.

Through the kick starter for the IOTA I am getting one tracker, and two devices for canopies for only 160 bucks.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Quote

Through the kick starter for the IOTA I am getting one tracker, and two devices for canopies for only 160 bucks.

That's fantastic, so long as it works AT LEAST one mile away.

[DougH 270]

Based on what they have said (could be some puffery) I think that range will be at least two miles outside of the city.

I think I can turn the tracker mobile with a wifi hotspot, so I can move my homebase within the 2 mile cone the canopy should be based on the uppers and exit point.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[EnricoPalazzo 1]

From the BluTracker website:
What is the range of BluTracker when there are buildings or trees between the Smartphone and BluTracker?

US Version is approximate 250-1000 feet.
European Version is approximate 40-80 meters.

Hm... not quite so good either.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

So, in this case it seems this device will be OK for homing in on your main once you are "in the general area". You will still have to be cognizant of where you chopped and in what general area the main landed so you can pick it out on an overhead photo and start your search.

This is assuming a person chops, then immediately looks straight down to get a reference, then lands as close as safely possible to their gear.

This will not help the wayward wingsuiter or young AFF student, or generally lazy skydiver who chops and immediately tries to fly back to the dropzone with the assumption that "someone on the ground will take care of it".

I have been a part of literally hundreds of search parties trying to recover gear over the years. Some which went well into the night and some which never led to recovery. What chaps my ass the worse is when someone chops rental gear and just packs up and leaves the DZ.

[kontiki 0]

Where would be the best location for this to be placed? I'm thinking the inside bottom of the dbag if a rigger were to sew a small velcro pocket there. I'm a newb so not sure if that would work or not.

[JeffCa 0]

SkymonkeyONE

This is assuming a person chops, then immediately looks straight down to get a reference, then lands as close as safely possible to their gear.

This will not help the wayward wingsuiter or young AFF student, or generally lazy skydiver who chops and immediately tries to fly back to the dropzone with the assumption that "someone on the ground will take care of it".

I know you're old-school, but ...

I don't consider this lazy, and there is somebody on the ground who will take care of it at my DZ, along with lots of people who will watch it for as long as possible under canopy. But when I make my first cutaway, I sure am heading back to the LZ, to my safe landing area, especially with an unfamiliar canopy that I'd be under. I don't want to make my first landing under my reserve in sub-optimal terrain. I'd rather lose my canopy than break my leg, and I think my DZ would expect me to try to make it home.

If a DZ doesn't have a spotter on the ground for each load, maybe they should start doing it. Let the jumpers come home to their familiar LZ as safely as possible. The reasons for the chop could include a hard opening snapping lines (a friend I trained with just had his first chop under these circumstances), in which case they're possibly dazed. Familiarity would help in such cases.

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

[Divalent 106]

EnricoPalazzo

From the BluTracker website:
What is the range of BluTracker when there are buildings or trees between the Smartphone and BluTracker?

US Version is approximate 250-1000 feet.
European Version is approximate 40-80 meters.

Hm... not quite so good either.

I think even the lower end limit of 250 ft of the US version would be absolutely great. For a canopy lost in a dense forest you might have to get within about 20 ft to be sure of spotting it visually, and when searching would have to be continually scanning all the time: up down left right forward back. And wandering about to check out things that might be it.

If instead you only had to walk with a smart phone in your pocket, you could instead focus on quickly walking a planned grid about the area: you'd move faster and would be more likely to walk your planned route.

If you know where it will be within about a 1 square mile area and have a search a party of, say, 5 others each with a smart phone, I'd bet 99% of the time you'd locate it in less than 2 hours.

ETA: I should add the caveat that the BluTracker site shows no updates in over a year. Their facebook page appears to have been scrubbed. So although what they promise seems like it would be great, it looks like there is a strongly possibility it's going to turn out to be Vaporware. Oh well...

[billvon 2,734]

People have been offering devices like this for 20 years. They don't work - not because they don't work technically, but because no one ever considers adding one to their canopy until they lose their canopy.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Jeff,
If you think ANYONE at ANY dropzone is obligated to keep track of you (or your lost gear) then you are mistaken. While it is true that a rare few US dropzones do have ground personnel who are tasked with loading planes and doing a canopy count, those places are the exception. I can promise you that the first time you chop a $3500 main and you choose to fly back to the main landing area instead of attempting to land safely as close as possible to your gear then you will understand how fiscally flawed your plan is. You MIGHT get lucky and get some others to help you go retrieve your stuff or you might not....

I didn't say anything about flying yourself to a dangerous landing spot. Land as close as SAFELY possible to your gear. Hopefully one of your buddies will follow your freebag if they see you making an effort to follow your gear.

When you own $50k worth of gear like I do to make your living you will want to take care of it. Not letting a main hang in a tree for three days or sit out in the blazing sun for even one hour REALLY makes a difference.

Bill Von Novak is 100% right in saying that it will never work because people will not consider such a device until after they have already lost that $3500 main.

Chuck

[hackish 8]

There was a bluetooth transmitter sold for about $50 that was supposed to be good for about 250 feet. I tossed one in a field and went looking. A friend's i-phone picked it up at about 25' and my blackberry got a signal at about 75'. That was in an open field so we didn't think it would be sufficient.

Also the battery needed to be replaced every year. I think as prices come down and technology improves this can become viable in a few years.

The one thing I wanted to but didn't try was to build a YAGI antenna or other directional type array and see if I could improve the distance.

[JeffCa 0]

SkymonkeyONE

Jeff,
If you think ANYONE at ANY dropzone is obligated to keep track of you (or your lost gear) then you are mistaken.

I didn't use the word obligated, I wrote that they do it. It's their job. So maybe it is an obligation, as it's what they're getting paid to do. They watch that every canopy is open on every load, report in when the canopies are open, watch everybody make it to the landing area, etc. So is it really a mistake to think that they'll watch for it?

SkymonkeyONE

While it is true that a rare few US dropzones do have ground personnel who are tasked with loading planes and doing a canopy count, those places are the exception. I can promise you that the first time you chop a $3500 main and you choose to fly back to the main landing area instead of attempting to land safely as close as possible to your gear then you will understand how fiscally flawed your plan is.

My main doesn't cost $3,500 and I can afford to lose it. You don't know the state of my wallet. I will go the LZ. The few chops I have seen at our DZ all had their pilots head back to the LZ. Nobody was overheard saying they made a mistake.

SkymonkeyONE

You MIGHT get lucky and get some others to help you go retrieve your stuff or you might not....

Or the club staff will do their job. It won't be luck.

SkymonkeyONE

I didn't say anything about flying yourself to a dangerous landing spot. Land as close as SAFELY possible to your gear. Hopefully one of your buddies will follow your freebag if they see you making an effort to follow your gear.

Landing on an unfamiliar canopy in undeveloped land that you've never landed in before and was not maintained for landing is never safe. How could it be?

SkymonkeyONE

When you own $50k worth of gear like I do to make your living you will want to take care of it. Not letting a main hang in a tree for three days or sit out in the blazing sun for even one hour REALLY makes a difference.

I don't have to worry about this particular problem, I only have my own gear.

SkymonkeyONE

Bill Von Novak is 100% right in saying that it will never work because people will not consider such a device until after they have already lost that $3500 main.

I'll get one the moment somebody can confirm that it works. Promise. I've already been in touch with the makers of the product in the OP.

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth