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Jabeln79

Question for any army jumper, or anyone else with

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I just turned 22 and am thinking back on the last couple of years and thinking, damn what a waste of time. Aside from skydiving i have done absoluely nothing productive. I never travel or do anything special. Ive worked te same job since i have been 16. I have worked 50 hrs a week since i turned 18 and finished highschool. Since i left highschool i have always thought about joining the millitary, Army or Airforce. i just never could get myself to commit. Now i am very seriously thinking of joing, I am tired of the boring job at the resaraunt and want to do something different.
So anybody out there who has been in the service please help.
1. Do you have time to make any fun jumps in the service.
2. Is it worth your time and commitment.
3. Am i too old (22).
And any other general insight would really help, I am really thinking about going to see a recruitor early next week.
Thanks for all your time and help.
Blue skies
Joe

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well i never joined the army or the services (am from the U.K) but i did join the Merchant Navy (merchant marine i think you guys in the states call it once i was qualified i was working approximately 7 months in the year on a good wage giving me another 5 months to do what i want whilst still getting paid (as i was on leave). it took me 4 years to get qualified as a navigator but the in those first 4 years i got to see the whole of the far east and we are not talking about all the comercial places but all the small ports in papau new guinea all around the aussie coast the ,sumatra's, java new zealand , also africa, and all around europe, at present am working in west africa on a 4 weeks on 4 weeks off basis thus only working 6 months a year i started jumping around april this year and have managed to knock up 160 jumps and am planning to move down to spain right by a cool DZ and have at least 500 jumps in by this time next year. it's an idea why not give that a go. however you have the downside of not being able to jump for a full 4 weeks at a time and not see land for those four weeks. but it suits me .
just my 10 pence worth
cya
moooose

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Joe,
I was in the 82nd Airborne Division stationed at Fort Bragg. At that time I didn't make any sport jumps. I was always interested in skydiving, but I just couldn't commit to the time back then. If I was already licensed I could have jumped often. I wish I would have taken advantage of it back then. The nice thing about Bragg, Golden Knights and at that time three different skydiving clubs, the special forces, 82nd and 18th Abn Corps. A good way to guarantee that you end up a Ft. Bragg is to go to jump school. Also, I would contact the Golden Knights and find out when they have try outs. They have more than just the 4 and 8 way teams and you don't have to be a sky god to make it I believe they pretty much train everyone who is a Golden Knight.
Good Luck

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Joe,
Like mwthomsen, I was in the 82d at Bragg. I got there by insisting on Airborne training when I enlisted and being in an unusual job field. In my MOS (Military Occupational Specialty), basically everyone that wanted jump school could get it, and end up at Bragg sooner or later. However, there are no guarantees beyond what is specifically stated when you sign up.
Honestly, I wouldn't think too much about the Knights. I've heard it is competitive, and that you can only spend part of your enlistment there anyway, even if you make it. So you better like whatever job you sign up for when you enlist.
As to whether you have time for fun-jumping in the military, it depends. You might get stationed somewhere where the nearest DZ is hours (or a continent) away. That would suck, but it could happen. Or you could end up with a mostly 9-5 job at Bragg where you could jump your ass off. You could also get stationed there but be deployed/field training so damned much you still wouldn't be able to jump much. It could go any way.
I doubt you are too old to join up.
Another thing to think about is the fact that enlisted soldiers don't make squat. You certainly won't join for the money. If that is really important, then forget it.
Basically, if you want to serve your country, that's fine. It can provide an educational "character-building" time in your life if you feel like you are in a dead-end. But only do it if you would be willing to spend your whole enlistment far from a DZ with crummy pay. If you are willing to gamble that you might be able to jump, then fine, but don't count on it.
Just my $.02
Justin
My Homepage

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Joe, There are 212 ways to become an Army of one. I know, I saw it on TV. My advice to you is:
1) Pick one that you want. There is a Parachute Rigger MOS in the Army. You'll be paid to learn how to work on parachutes. Your station then could very well be, Ft Bragg, NC, near Raeford.
2) Don't plan on having a lot of free time at first. Basic Training and AIT will take a huge chunk out of a six month window. Then as the newest guy in the unit (the FNG), you will get some of the worst details. That will pass.
3) Work your butt off to get on the Golden Knights. Play by the rules and don't piss people off. They like gregarious, well-rounded, safe skydivers who are willing to learn. Be that guy.
4) Get it in writing. Don't let a recruiter screw with you. Make him put it in writing that your MOS will be the job you want, from the start. Don't settle. Also, be wary. Recruiters can make anything sound glamorous. A truck mechanic is a truck mechanic, no matter how hard they make it sound like it's a light vehicle logistics specialist with a concentrated effort toward mechanical and digital electronic diagnostics techniques.
5) Sign nothing on the first visit. They will want you just as bad next week as they do this week.
You are not too old. Top age is 34 or 35, I believe. Also in the military, everything is waiverable. There are a bunch of pilots out there with glasses.
flyhiB|

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okay it's my turn at this.... and to give another sevice's option! well i'm active duty in the air force. well we as an airforce are pretty much like a biusness. you work your time and do heatever ou want when you arn't at work.work is normally around 8-10 hours a day and it could be very boring(gaurding a gate) or highly exciting like flying a plane(got have a b.a. for that though). most people get the weekends off except for a few jobs but they get days off durring the week and weekend on a rotation. ocasionally if you normaklly have weekends off you will have to work weekend duty like once every two months. some jobs though you will never have to. well the 6 weeks of basic training is out for jumping and so is tech school (i did my last month though, i had to get off student status or it would of killed me) and then all ya got to do is let you comander you do a "high risk": activity and you can jump. i look at it right now, if i didn't have my credit card bills to pay off i'd be sitting in money i wouldn't know what do do with beside spend it on jumps.(i'm single and have been in 3 years) there are alot of options out there....the airforce and the army both!! if ya want any more info or any questions feel free to pm me. my job in the air force is a "F-16 crew chief" "afsc" (air force specialty code) 2A353B.
p.s. the air foce has enlisted positions at the academy to teach the cadets how to skydive (sport skydiving by the way)...that is my dream job..only like a milliuon more jumps before i'm ready to teach.....wait a second they are only cadets, they cn burn in, let me teach em..... :)
"up my noooossseee"- wingnut, at first euro dz.com boogie

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wait a second they are only cadets, they cn burn in

True. Cadets are definitely expendible. :)To add to what Wingnut said, if you want the best standard of living, go Air Force. I didn't. We had some A.F. guys in our barracks. They got a "substandard housing allotment" because they had to live in lowly Army barracks. Lucky bastards! :S
Justin
My Homepage

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I agree with a lot of what's already written here. If you do want to go in, to whatever branch, get it in writing from the recruiter. I was in '74 - '78, and there were a large number of people who did not get what they thought they were going to. As its been said before, oral agreements aren't worth the paper they're written on. Definitely forget the first 6 months of being in, or even longer depending on what you signed up for. You'll be too busy training. Also, as I mentioned, give serious thought before you sign up. The military is a very very different world from civilian life, and if you decide a few months into that you want to get out, you'll regret it. The Army is a big institution that puts its needs above the needs of individual soldiers. I don't mean this in a negative way, any large institution is like this. the difference is that in this organization you can't leave when you feel like it. Don't let this scare you off, if you want to do it, go for it. It was a real enlightening experience for me (including 3 yrs in Germany), and made me appreciate college more when I went back and got my BA.

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Alrighty....quick resume. 10 years in the Air Force. 3.5 as an aircraft sheetmetal mechanic. worked on B-52, KC-135, UH-1, King Airs, T-37, Nuke Cruise missles. That job sucked. Long ours of thankless crappy work at low pay. On the other hand after 3.5 years I was about to get out when I was offered a new job. I spent the next 6.5 years as a Forward Air Controller. That job was pretty cool. A FAC spends almost all his time on Army posts. That is a double edge sword but I enjoyed it. I got to do butt loads of cool stuff like fast roping out of some of the most sophisticated helicopters in the world. Blowing the shit out of all kinds of things out at the range. Going to more Army schools than most Army guys. Working with SEALs, SF, Ranger, AF Special Ops, Training foreign troops. Jumping out of all kinds of differen't aircraft both from the US and other countries. Playing with some very cool personal weapons and the most sophisticated aircraft weapons systems in the world. Fun shit. However, If I had it to do over again. I would have become a Combat Controller instead. The job is almsot identical to the one I had with the major difference being that FACs primary mission is to control fighter aircraft dropping bombs and a CCT guy controls airlift aircraft. The reality is that the jobs are very similar. Except!, if you go the CCT route you get all the high speed schools such as Scuba, Jump, HALO, and some cool land warfare training right off the bat. As a FAC you will spend the first 5 years of your career clawing your way into these schools. CCT gets more money. More money=Better training, better toys, more schools, better life. Also, CCT is owned by the Air Force Special Operations Command which puts you in a better position than a FAC who is owned by Air Combat Command. It's a subtilty that you probably wouldn't understand but it makes life a lot tougher. Oh....I almost forgot. Both those jobs have huge enlistment bonuses attached. I'm talking somewhere around 25-35 thousand dollars. Of course...thats before taxes. I enjoyed my 10 years and wouldn't trade the experiences for anything. It was just time for me to do other things in life. Have fun and whatever you do DON'T JOIN THE ARMY!!!!! :)P.S. Spent 2.5 yrs at the 101st, 1 yr with 2ID, 2 yrs with the 82nd. Smattering of "special" stuff in between those assignments. It was fun but dangerous. I lost a good friend in March of this year to a DUMBASS Marine pilot who decided where 2 of my friends were standing looked like a great place to drop 3 500lb bombs. Closest one was about 30 meters away.
"The sky resembles a back lit canopy...with holes punched through it"- Incubus
Clay

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Jabeln79-
I too was in the 82nd AIRBORNE, the only place to be in the Army It was the best three years of my life. If your truely serious about jumping its the place to be. With three DZ's in 50 miles you couldn't ask for more. With the 82nd free fall club, the Golden knights and green beret club there is plenty of oppertunities to improve your skills and possibly get onto one of the teams. Become a riggar and the army will teach you everything you need to know about a round canopy, in addition how to prepair vehicles and other equipment to be air dropped. If your interested in a very competitive and eliet group go for the Golden Knights, You need a minimum of a 125 jumps at the time of application turn in. One of my good buddies was a Golden Knight. If you pass all qualifications and are selected then you must commit to the group and army for three years Not to bad since you will spend most of it traveling around the country and world doing demonstrations. If skydiving is your passion then come on over to the states. I never started sport jumping till after I got out and wish I had taken advantage of the oppertunities I had had when I was in. Then I would rather drink then do anything now I'd rather jump than drink scarry, isn't it? Good luck on whatever you choose, but remember one thing when jumping a round keep your feet and knees together and don't reach for the ground.
Blue Sky's
Scott Petersen
AIRBORNE ALL THE WAY!!!!

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Freeflier29
Don't join the army I can see why you were in the air force how hard could that have been. Was the navy too tough for you too. I'm proud of the ARMY and all the other branches. At least you served your country there's a plus for you.
Bewaire of the toes you step on today, for they may belong to the ass you kiss tomorrow
Blue Sky's
Scott

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Homer- Reread the resume! I worked with the Army the majority of my career. I saw how they have a "lower standard of living" for the majority of people. Generally they treat the average "Joes" like dirt. The SF guys have it much better but they had to go through some serious hell to get where they are. I was proud to have the job I did. Nobody could make me wear it but with the exception of the gargantuan 2ID patch I always wore the Army Division patch (101, 82nd) on my shoulder. The Army doesn't always make sense. I make fun of them all the time but the longer I was in I realized that all the crazy stuff they do was done because the system worked for them. I mean crazy stuff like having the first meeting for a jump at 0800 when you aren't exiting the aircraft till 0100-0300 the next morning?????? Nuts!!!!
Most people join the Army because they want to be "High Speed" killers. They want to do Army stuff. I.E. Shoot things, blow up stuff, jump, etc I'm just pointing out the way to do all that without spending so much time eating shit. In the AF you will make more money, have a better general standard of living, and generally be better taken care of. I.E. Nicer hotels on TDY, more travel pay, living a better life while still getting to do all the "cool" stuff. Don't get me wrong, your gonna "pay before you play" in the Air Force too. The selection courses for either one of the jobs I mentioned aren't a walk in the park and both have a considerable wash out rate. IMHO it's worth every minute of pain to reach the goal. There were thousands of times I was thanking God it didn't say "US ARMY" on my uniform. Then I could tell that irate officer that didn't know what the hell he was talking about to vacate my AO. If my uniform had said "US ARMY" I would have spent a lot of time getting Courts Martialed instead of laughing at those guys. It's one of the few jobs in the world that you can tell your boss to fuck off and it has no negative impact on you...:)"The sky resembles a back lit canopy...with holes punched through it"- Incubus
Clay

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***I was in '74 - '78, and there were a large number of people who did not get what they thought they were going to.{/quote]
My b.f. was in the Army around the same time (in Germany too, but lucky for him he was on an Air Force base). He got royally jacked. He went in because they told him (in writing) that the GI Bill would help pay for his flight training when he got out; all he'd have to cover was his private and then the bennies would kick in. By the time he was discharged and got his private ticket - ie ready to use the benefits he'd served his time to get - our wonderful government took the flight benefits away. Needless to say, today he doesn't have much good stuff to say about the US government...
pull and flare,
lisa

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"he doesn't have much good stuff to say about the US government..."
Yeah, I could very easily say that too but I remember how much fun I had and all the neat stuff I got to do. Plus, all the good things it did for me on a personal level. You definately have to watch your ass! Let's take the case of that AF Staff Sergeant in Japan that is accused of rape and on trial right now. Do you think the outcome of that trial will have ANYTHING to do with his guilt or innocence? I don't. It's all a political game. Being in the services has many other risks besides war.
"The sky resembles a back lit canopy...with holes punched through it"- Incubus
Clay

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This is going to be a lengthy reply, so I apologize up front. I'm going to try and hit everything.
First, let me say that I'm currently serving my country in the U.S. Marine Corps and have been for the past 12 years, this month.
No matter which service you choose to join, each rank pays the same. An E-1 in the Army pays the same as an E-1 in the Navy, Air Force, or Marines. That's the same for every rank. Don't believe that one service pays better than another, if that were true then more people would be joining that particular service over another.
Additionally, good luck trying to get anything in writing from a recruiter. Yes, it is true that a recruiter will tell you almost anything to get you to join their service. They'll promise you anything just to get you to join, and the chances of getting something in writing other than a contract stating you have to serve for the next 'x'-amount of years is almost nil.
What do you want to get out of the service? They all offer a steady pay check, a place to live and eat, a wardrobe you don't seem to pay for (unless you're an officer), medical and dental services, and training for a job which could possibly transfer over to the civilian sector.
Each service offers the G.I. Bill. You will have only 'x'-amount of years after getting out to use it or you will forfeit it. No matter what service you join, you will have the opportunity to take college courses while in, normally during off-duty hours. The military will pay for 75% of your higher education while serving, allowing for you to keep your G.I. Bill for further education after serving. (You may even use the G.I. Bill while in if you take college courses, I'm not sure.) Virtually every base, post, or station has satellite campuses from local universities on board. Even in the Navy, if deployed on ship, college courses are offered. (I had the opportunity to instruct one of the courses while I was aboard a Navy ship for my 6-month deployment to the Mediterranean.) If you don't take advantage of this opportunity while serving, it's your own fault. If you're married, your wife can attend the local university/college at in-state tuition rates. (My wife did that in North Carolina and she's doing it now here in California, my home state is Texas.) Check in to the education opportunities available, you probably won't regret it.
Some more on the education part, if you desire and qualify, each service will provide you the opportunity to become an officer, at their expense. I'm sure there will be some replies stating you shouldn't be an officer or that officers are pieces of shit or something like that. Well, let me tell you that I once thought that. I originally enlisted in the Marine Corps, and while in the reserves I attended college. The G.I. Bill I received was incredibly less than active duty Marines; however, I still used my G.I. Bill and went college, mainly at my own expense. My father wanted me to be in the local ROTC, but I wouldn't even think about it because at the time I didn't give a shit about officers, plus the ROTC unit was an Army one and I wasn't about to degrade myself and wear any other uniform that wasn't a Marine uniform (it's a Marine pride thing). Anyway, on my own I decided to check in to being an officer, orignally I wanted to fly (which you must be an officer to do, not just have a B.S. or B.A.). Well, I'm not a pilot, but I didn't let that stop me. I attended Officer Candidate School (OCS) and upon graduating from college I was commissioned as a 2nd Lt (let me say it before anyone else does, YES, a butter bar!). Now, I'm a Captain. As an officer, you get paid more than being enlisted. I, personally, wouldn't use that as a deciding factor to become an officer, though. Mainly, I just wanted to point out to you that while in any service you will have the opportunity to broaden your horizon more and become an officer. Heck, currently I'm at a post graduate school in which the military is paying for me to get a Master's Degree (and I volunteered to attend). The school I'm at isn't limited to just the Marine Corps, all services including the Coast Guard have student officers attending - at the expense of the military.
Each service has re-enlistment bonuses, for specific jobs in that service. The bonuses can be small or large, depending on the job. I, personally, don't recommend you trying to get assigned a specific job just because it has a re-enlistment bonus.
You virtually aren't going to be guaranteed any particular job in any service. The Army and the Air Force may be able to promise you a specific job, but I doubt it. The needs of the military and the armed forces decide your fate. Don't go thinking that if you join the Air Force you get to be a Pararescue (their Special Force), or that you'll get to be a Navy Seal or Army Green Beret. About the only job you may be guaranteed for is if you try out for the Golden Knights first. If accepted, then you have to join the Army and serve probably a 3-year tour in the Army, but you're with the Golden Knights - jumping.
Are the jobs fun in the miltary? It's basically like any job anywhere else. You have to put up with bull shit from senior ranking individuals and you sometimes have to work some hellacious hours which you'll then probably wish you hadn't join, but nothing lasts forever. How many civilian jobs allow someone to travel the world? Not many, especially for only a high school graduate. Course, you're not guaranteed to ever leave the United States either. When I was in Europe, I took some of my SCUBA equipment with me and I made dives while in France and Greece. I wasn't skydiving at the time, or I probably would have tried to jump while in Europe, too.
You're not too old to enlist. The normal cut-off age is around 27 or 29, and it may be as high as the low 30s. Ask any recruiter.
Is it worth my (your) time and commitment? It depends. I would say yes, others may say no. Every decision you ever make in life, even to skydive, has an opportunity cost involved. You will have to decide this for yourself, what do you want out of the service and what are you willing to give up and put up with.
Do I have time to make any fun jumps? Yes and no. First, if you join remember that you have made an obligation and that obligation comes first before everything else. If you deploy somewhere, let's say to Afghanistan, don't start bitching that this isn't what you joined for and that you can't make any jumps, you volunteered to join. If you screw up and piss off your platoon sergeant or squad leader, you may find that you've had your liberty restricted to the barracks (even if you're married) for a weekend. Live with it, the weekend will end and if you don't screw up again then you'll be jumping the following weekend.
At my last command is where I started jumping. I was able to go fairly regularly, the only individual that restricted me, if ever, was my wife. I was usually the only officer there, most of the other skydivers that were military, were enlisted. Almost everytime I was there they were there, both Marines and Soldiers (from Ft Bragg, some of them were Golden Knights). Now, as long as I'm not doing something with my wife or studying for my Master's, I'm jumping every weekend ('course, the DZ is only 5 miles from my house, too).
As previously stated, not all recruiters will tell you the truth. I've heard some people state they joined the Marines because all the other recruiters were lying to them. The Marine Corps is the only service which has met their recruiting goals each year for the past so-many years (if anyone wants to debate this, go research it). It's not because they promise you a bunch of bennies, it's because people want to join something they are proud of: the title of being a U.S. Marine. Will the Marines treat you any better than the other services? Don't kid yourself. The Air Force takes care of their people better than the other services. If you want a "cush" job, then join the Air Force. Army posts are about like Marine bases, they suck; however, they are trying to improve them (well, the Army is usually broke/out of money well before the end of the fiscal year). As for the Navy, do you think you'll enjoy living in a giant sardine can for up to 6-months at a time? But, you may hardly ever serve on a ship.
You figure out what's best for you, then decide. Talk to all the recruiters, if you're really interested, and see what they all have to offer. Keep in mind what each one says as you're talking to the next, and most importantly DON'T LET THEM PRESSURE YOU! Some will tell you anything to get you to join their service to keep you from checking another.
Have I regretted my decision to join? Sometimes, but I never quit. It's not for everyone, and some get out only after 3-4 years. I'm hoping to be a "lifer" and serve at least 20 years, and heck, receiving 50 percent of my base pay each month for the rest of my life after retirement isn't bad.
I've tried to be honest and up front with you. (Maybe slightly biased at times, but I am a Marine.) Don't let anything I've said here possibly discourage you. You have to decide for yourself, which I think you know that. No matter what you're doing or where you're at, you'll always think the grass if greener on the other side.
Sorry for taking so long. I'm now done and I'm sure everyone is applauding.
Semper Fi!

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I lost a good friend in March of this year to a DUMBASS Marine pilot who decided where 2 of my friends were standing looked like a great place to drop 3 500lb bombs. Closest one was about 30 meters away.


And, like I'm sure the so called DUMBASS Marine pilot was flying around, looking for a place to drop his ordnance, saw your 2 friends and said, "Hm, look at those 2 people. Looks like a good place to drop my bombs." or "I wonder what the casualty radius is of these bombs are?"
Remember back during Desert Storm, wasn't it an Air Force or Army pilot which shot and destroyed an Army Bradley fighting vehicle, full of soldiers.
I'm sorry the incident occured, recently and during Desert Storm. However, there are DUMBASSES everywhere.

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I am in the Army and I also am at my dropzone pretty much every weekend. (except this one. Cause I had to work). Depending on where you are stationed and what your job is you should have most weekends off to jump. Don't let any b.s. recruiter talk you into going airborne by telling you it is like skydiving. It's not, it hurts like hell. (round chute night 700 jumpers=pain.) Golden Knightswould be cool but pretty much tough tryouts, plus you need 400 jumps(Ithink). Definetly think you should go for it. It has changed my life and opened tons of doors. Good Luck.
(Maximum age of enlisting is 35)

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Oh....I almost forgot. Both those jobs have huge enlistment bonuses attached. I'm talking somewhere around 25-35 thousand dollars.

freeflir,
my current srb is a 5 i'm going to go to a 3 when i go tacp... 45k turns into 27k.. but i wouldn't stay just for the money...i'm going reserves in 3 years and getting my b.a. for next to nothing with my m.g.i.b.
marine( sorry coudn't remember your screen name),
i think what freeflir was saying about pay was "travel pay".. went to a "nice" (mideastern) country earlier this year and we got a wopping $11 a day for per diem the army guys that were there with us got $3.... diffrent services treat their people diffrently... and i did come into the airfoce with a job alread in hand...in writing....it is very common to get a specific job before ya come in...it normally doesn't apply though if ya want to leave for basic shortly after ya go through m.e.p.s.
a good point was said about officers....i'd like to add something though...from what i've seen in the airforce officers are mainly managers.....most of the grunt work is done by the enlisted and your job options are limited because officers just don't do all the job as the enlisted
and i'd like to say this no mater what service your in or thinking about going in...we're all on the same side, and we all know that, we, as a whole KICK ASS!!!!! i like this discousion lets me see diffrent aspects of the other service.....

"up my noooossseee"- wingnut, at first euro dz.com boogie

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There are all sorts of jobs, and you do stand a good chance of getting one in writing. But you have to be patient. When I went to enlist, I told them I wanted a specific military job, and I wanted airborne training. It was airborne journalist (MOS 46Q, I think) or nothing. They told me I could get a $5,000 bonus if I wanted to be a cook. I reiterated exactly what I wanted, and that I'd accept nothing else. They told me it wasn't available. I stood up to leave, and amazingly, it "became" available. I'd just have to wait a few months for a particular slot. No problem. So I signed on the dotted line for my specific job and training.
There has been a lot of good info on this thread. I wish I'd had it when I was thinking of enlisting.
People have put in so much effort to be open and honest that I won't even start with Air Force or Marine Corps jokes. :D
Justin
My Homepage

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Sorry to add a negative note here, but some personality types do well in the military and other personality types don't.
After 13 years in uniform, I quit the Canadian Armed Forces in disgust!
I just could not handle the B.S. any more. I was tired of senior NCOs lying to me and f***ing me over.
I lost all respect for Canadian Armed Forces policy on drugs and alcohol. Written regulations said one thing, but it was vastly different in practice.
For example, on two different ocaissions military police pulled me over when I knew I was too drunk to drive, but they let me go!
So much for the written regulations!
In practice, you were obliged to develop addicitions to the three official drugs, but if you did any other drugs, they promised to throw you in jail.
Cigarettes gave me a sore throat.
Alcohol aggravated my insomnia.
Caffeine aggravated my insomnia.
After I figured out that they were feeding me B.S. I lost respect for the Canadian Armed Forces.

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This is going to be a lengthy reply, so I apologize up front. I'm going to try and hit everything


That was a good post, but I believe I can add a bit to it. You see, the military is exactly what you make of it. If you are without direction, then it will give you one. You might not like that direction, but once again: it is exactly what you make of it.
Want discipline? Then join the Army or Marines and be an Infantry grunt for an enlistment term. Do what you are told and you will be promoted way ahead of your peers that took the "cushy" soft-skill jobs (clerical, mechanics, cook, truck driver, etc). While you will probably be deployed quite a bit, the esprit de corps of those units, especially the more elite Airborne units (which you can go to "right off the street"), will make you feel "needed". This, assuming you want to get promoted out of the "nug" ranks as soon as possible. After a few years, you can then change directions completely. Want to go into a special ops unit? Go do it. Want to go to OCS and be an officer so you can double your salary? Nothing stopping you. Want to even change branch of service? Not a problem either; I know plenty that have done it.
There are plenty of very-simple cake jobs in all branches of service where you will have more time to go to school or skydive, but the promotion rates are much slower there. Different branches of service also have wildly varying promotion rates for basically the same job. Odd, but there are tradeoffs: For the slower promotion rate you get in the AF, you get a better standard of living right off the bat. This carries through to career status also, as evidenced by certain AF special operators in the grade of E-5 and E-6 who make more "take home" money than Army SF E-7's. This, due to the AF's policy to allow a person to recieve specialty pay for every qualification a person has, regardless of frequency of use. For example, I am currently recieving specialty pay in the following areas: dive, parachute, language, and SF proficiency. As I am also a MFF jumpmaster and hold the 18C secondary MOS, I would be drawing MFF pay and demolitions pay if I were in the AF. In my branch, though, we have a cap which limits the amount of specialty pay one can recieve (I already max that out). As I spent two years in the Infantry and then went straight into SF as an E-4, I made E-7 in eight years total. You will NEVER see that in any other branch, but it is not uncommon in certain Army units. Granted, I was deployed overseas 10 months out of some years, but that didn't stop me from skydiving. I carry at least one rig everywhere I go and have jumped in some very cool hole-in-the-wall countries.
Want to skydive? Come to Fort Bragg or Fort Campbell. Both places have very active skydiving clubs; Rucker used to have a good one too. We have two VERY active clubs on Fort Bragg; the GB club and the 82nd club. No, you don't have to be SF to jump in the GB club, and no, you don't have to be in the 82nd to jump in that club. There are lots of Airforce personnel in the GB club and lots of COSCOM nugs in the 82nd club. Same goes for the demonstration teams! Both are great places to get all the demo experience neccessary to pass Golden Knights tryouts. The teams will take you on with very few jumps and work you in at the base level. The 82nd team actually pays for all their team member jumps, so long as they are wearing the team uniform and jumping team gear.
Both clubs are also a great place to work on your ratings, be they instructional or rigging. You will see people from every branch of service on your local dropzone, assuming it is near enough to drive. Southern California DZ's are inundated with Navy skydivers and Instructors. North Carolina DZ's are saturated with Army, Airforce, and Marine jumpers from E-1 82nd band kids, to E-8 Delta Operators, to 0-5 Battalion Commanders. All, of course, on a first name basis, because the dropzone is neutral territory. Being a higher rank than me will not get you onto mine or anyone else's skydive if you suck and act like the caste system is in place out there; it is not.
Have a particular geographic location you would want to live in and be stationed near? Then research it and see if there are any jobs you might want on that post (regardless of branch of service). Flexibility is the key. Sit down and write out a list of what you think you would like to do in general terms. Next, decide how important it is to have free time and how much money you want to have available. Decide if you want to have time to go to school. As stated previously, there are TONS of education opportunities on military posts. School is nearly free and hours are set up to accomodate to the military. If you want to go to OCS and become an officer, you need only accumulate 60 hours (two years, but no degree) of college on your own attend. I have plenty of friends that have done it simply to have more skydiving money and I really can't blame them; they didn't do it to "be in charge" or because they were tired of being bossed around. You can apply to OCS up until your 32nd birthday with a waiver. You can also apply to warrant officer candidate school almost any time you like. That is probably the easiest way to get into flight school if you want to drive helicopters for a living. Be advised, though, that those guys work a lot and get sent to some miserable places.
In the end, I would like to close by saying that I have had a very rewarding career. I could have made much more of myself, but liked my job and pay enough that I never swerved off the path into another field. The military paid for every bit of my college education, sent me all over the world, allowed me to make friends with skydivers all over the place, and gave me every opportunity to better myself. Regrets? Only maybe that I should have went to OCS or the SF WOC course about 10 years ago when I was asked about it. Would I have been a different person for doing so? No, but I certainly could have used the cash for MORE SKYDIVES!
Chuck Blue
D-12501
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

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"And, like I'm sure the so called DUMBASS Marine pilot was flying around, looking for a place to drop his ordnance, saw your 2 friends and said, "Hm, look at those 2 people. Looks like a good place to drop my bombs." or "I wonder what the casualty radius is of these bombs are?"
Shrapnel from a MK-82 500lb bomb covers approximately 800 meters in a conical shape forwrd from the impact site. Only 50-100 to the rear. The min safe "for training" is 1950 meters. Here's the link for the accident report. http://66.34.153.66/finaljumper/ud_range_compiled.pdf
People can argue all day long but the facts are this. I knew the controller well. He was "safe" to the point of being annoying sometimes. I'm a more "fly by the seat of the pants" type. He was very by the book. The targets and southern boundary of the range had been clearly pointed out to the pilot via a visual laser mark. The target was being illuminated with the laser on the pilots run in. The friendlies were marked by a white strobe light. The pilot dropped the bombs 2 sec before he got clearance. By the time my friend gave an "Abort,Abort,Abort" call the bombs were already in flight. They impacted over 1 mile from the intended target. That pilot killed 5 people that night. FA-18's are notorious for being dangerous. During my tour in Korea we had an FA-18 "Top Gun Stud" that didn't know how his weapons systems worked and dropped a 500lb (luckily inert practice bomb) in the village about 2 miles south of the target area. I have worked with FA-18's many times and they just aren't very good at Close Air Support. Funny since thats supposed to be one of their main tasks. I never liked working with them then and I like them even less now. I invite you to listen to the audio tape of my friend (with one of his lower legs almost blown off by the shrapnel) screaming into his Satcom radio for a medivac. This he did just before he crawled back to Jay and administered CPR until the medivac chopper arrived. To no avail. Surf www.ROMAD.com for more info about Jay. Pictures of his 1.5 yr old standing next to his headstone in the VA cemetary in Nashville,TN. Thats enough on this subject!
"The sky resembles a back lit canopy...with holes punched through it"- Incubus
Clay

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