mccordia 74 #26 March 21, 2005 With me it wasn't a procedure I'd thought up beforehand. It always thought I would go straight for a normal reserve procedure. I'll see if I can upload the video sometime later this week..JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karenmeal 0 #27 March 21, 2005 I was taught that with a pilot chute in tow you go straight to the reserve. Found myself with a pc in tow once, checked the air over my back, went straight to the reserve (deployed main PC at 4500 feet).. then my main fully opened as soon as I hit the reserve handle. My reserve stayed in the free bag and was dangling around my feet with a perfectly opened main over my head. Tried to contain the reserve and put it in between my legs so it wouldn't inflate. That made the reserve inflate, and get tangled around my legs and left arm. With my reserve flying weird I was scared it would choke off my main at some point and I knew that I couldn't land without severe injuries being stretched out horizontal between two canopies. So I ended up cutting away the main as I was very high and felt that my best chance to survive was to get my legs and stuff out of my reserve lines. Ended up getting untangled from my reserve at 1,000 feet. Then followed my free bag down as I was too spaced to think about my main. If it happened again... I would make sure to clear the air over my back, reach back quickly for the bridle. (I've practiced on the ground) quick tug, then straight to the reserve. You can analyze all the things that I did wrong when I had the PC in tow.. but it was years ago and I've learned so much since then. "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegman 0 #28 March 27, 2005 I was as a student also taught both the pros and cons of both. I think I have decided on the go to reserve without a cutaway. The most important thing is to be consistent with which emergency procedure you will use and practice this on the ground. In other words it is not enough to be aware of the pros and cons of both procedures. You need to know which course of action that you are going to take and pactice this on the ground. This will ensure that you are able to respond to this malfunction. Rather than freezing up like a deer in headlights. http://www.freefallmaniacs.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegman 0 #29 March 27, 2005 Also Remeber the best solution is to avoid the pilot chute in tow. That being said Make sure you do a proper gear check. Always Make sure cock you pilot chute and check your color before you get on the plane. Also have it checked again before you exit the aircraft by a fellow skydiver. A misrouted bridle can cause a pilot chute in tow. Please make sure that you are careful when you are packing and properly trained at that. One other thing. Make sure that you really throw your pilot chute out to the right into the relative wind. This will keep it from being caught in your burble which could cause a pilot chute hesitation. http://www.freefallmaniacs.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegman 0 #30 March 27, 2005 QuoteAnd maybe get a pullout p/c. I don't use one myself and they have their own drawbacks as well - but you'll NEVER have a horseshoe with one Did you mean. You'll never have a pilot chute in tow? http://www.freefallmaniacs.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 61 #31 March 27, 2005 QuoteDid you mean. You'll never have a pilot chute in tow? I quess he meant both. With pull-out, the container openes BEFORE the PC gets into the airstream. So, PC-in-tow risk is almost non-existant, and the horseshoe where the main container openes, the bag leaves and the PC is still in the pouch is imposible. Remember - with the pc-in-tow you can NOT jettison the PC before (keyword "before") pulling the reserve, and with the horeshoe it's the same problem, even worse - just watch the horseshoe segment on the "Breakaway" tape... So, the pull-out design eliminates the only two malufunctions that require you to dump the reserve into the trailing mess behind you (PC and horseshoe mess). P.S. I know there are different situations, I was writing "in general/almost in all cases". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foxyroxtail 0 #32 March 30, 2005 I had a PC in tow last Oct. Internal dialog provided. It went like this: EP #1: cut away first. I missed the cutaway handle - I probably didn't torque it, just pulled straight, which we all know doesn't work with velcro. EP #2: pull silver handle before cutting away - I don't want to try anything twice at terminal until I'm out of options (then I'll try that last one as many times at it takes!). Get something out there. Pam to main canopy: "Please don't come out, please don't come out. Crap. It's coming out." EP #3: fly two canopies in stacked configuration… … fly two canopies in side-by-side configuaration… EP #4: Cut away main on two-out situation after main was quite set on downplaning with my reserve. Main cut away, and thankfully did so cleanly. Lesson - ALWAYS have a back-up plan to the back-up plan to the back-up plan. The discussions of EP's for PC in tow and two-out gave me the knowledge I needed to make the decisions when I needed them most. It also prepared me for possible outcomes of each action, so I knew what to look for BEFORE it happened, which gave me more time and awareness as the situation developed. I didn’t get surprised, so I was able to stay calm and in control. Relatively speaking. Have your plan, but know what your options are, in case you need those too! I needed two ways to handle two different emergencies in one skydive to land safely. Pam ________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #33 March 30, 2005 I also had a PC in tow but didn't go for the cut away handle right away. I went straight to the reserve handle and that is when the main came out and deployed. Because I was on top of the situation, as the two canopie's end cells bounced off each other, and I saw that I had clean air between the main and the reserve, I cut the main away. It all happened very fast.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWPoul 1 #34 April 3, 2005 Well, it wasn't take much time from discussing your posts with guy's and instructor here till I was lucky to test the discussed action myself - Had a PC in tow yesterday...1st jump this day - throw PC at 1000m, waiting for g-force...nothing! looking back - just PC's bridle...put my arm on cutaway handle then think "not good to deploy the reserve, while that thing are behind of my back" and remember this discussion... looking back again try ro grab the bridle and pull out the pin - well, now I can say - it's not so easy! actually I didn't grab the bridle I can only hit it,,, return to normal belly position put my arm on cutaway handle again and prepeared to EP, then felt the g-force and few moments later was under my main at 600m. It seems to me, that this thread (and your posts/replies) saved me at least from spending $$ for packing of reserve So, thanks and... as we like to say here in such cases- "S menya pivo" .Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 99 #35 April 3, 2005 NWPoul and Flyangel: Was your PC in tow caused by the pin being too tight?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #36 April 4, 2005 I'm glad everything worked out. What was the cause of your PC in tow? If it was because your PC wasn't cocked, have a plan to prevent that from happening in the future. If your PC was inflated, get your rig and PC inspected before you jump it again. 600m = 1800FT +/-. Getting low. You may have spent too much time trying to fix the PC in tow. You were right at the limit. Quotereturn to normal belly position Did you go unstable trying to pull the pin? If yes, that can contribute to losing altitude awareness. Again, glad everything worked out OK. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWPoul 1 #37 April 4, 2005 QuoteNWPoul and Flyangel: Was your PC in tow caused by the pin being too tight? Mine wasn't... the pin was set with normal force and as we checked after - there not much force need apply to pull it out.Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWPoul 1 #38 April 4, 2005 QuoteI'm glad everything worked out. What was the cause of your PC in tow? If it was because your PC wasn't cocked, have a plan to prevent that from happening in the future. If your PC was inflated, get your rig and PC inspected before you jump it again. Quotereturn to normal belly position Did you go unstable trying to pull the pin? If yes, that can contribute to losing altitude awareness. Again, glad everything worked out OK. Derek I have my friend (who packed my rig) asked before (and of course after :) ) the jump - did he cocked my PC and he said yes. Actually now I can't remember how PC was look when I had it in tow, only remember the bridle… After discussing this incident with local instructor (I was on other DZ that day) and my friend we came to conclusion, that malfunction was caused by improper pack job: My friend said that he passed the bridle under right flap (from down to up) then closed left flap, and insert the pin (from right to left), Instructor said that if there was a twist of bridle then this order can cause the pin's stuck and most likely exactly this happen with me, so he checked the next pack job (the bridle was not passed under the flap but over it) was satisfied and deployment on my second jump that day was perfect… However, I saw a few rigs there packed with bridle passed from down to up under the flap and down to BOC pocket again and the owners says that they had no any problem with deployments…so I will discuss this with my instructor in details when I meet him (especially tacking into account that I had some problem with deployment on my third jump that day)… Quote600m = 1800FT +/-. Getting low. You may have spent too much time trying to fix the PC in tow. You were right at the limit. At 600m I was under fully inflated main with my hands collapsing the slider (so, taking into account soft/slow opening of my Spectre - I was ready to cut away at about 700 – 800 meters). QuoteDid you go unstable trying to pull the pin? If yes, that can contribute to losing altitude awareness. During this jump – not I was quite stable while trying to grab the bridle I just wanted to say that after I felt that hit the bridle I turn my head and hand forward (to “box” position) and after get prepared to EP. But on my third jump that day after I thrown PC and didn’t felt nothing after the time which I used to felt the risers out - I waited for a moment (after first jump’s incident I thrown PC at 100 meters above my regular pull altitude) then looked back and at the same time try to reach back. I probably did it a little bit lubberly so I was tilted forward and down, my speed increased and at this moment I felt the jerk my main came out and start to inflate. The opening wasn’t too hard but tilt position cased the 4 line twist however that wasn’t a big deal with square main… I haven’t discussed the last issue with instructor and doubt what can it caused…(suspect the pack job :) and fact that PC was cocked after the pin was insert). QuoteAgain, glad everything worked out OK. I am too Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #39 April 4, 2005 Quote I have my friend (who packed my rig) asked before (and of course after :) ) the jump - did he cocked my PC and he said yes. Actually now I can't remember how PC was look when I had it in tow, only remember the bridle… Do you have a window on your bridle that indicaes if the PC is cocked or not? QuoteHowever, I saw a few rigs there packed with bridle passed from down to up under the flap and down to BOC pocket again and the owners says that they had no any problem with deployments…so I will discuss this with my instructor in details when I meet him Routing the bridle like that can cause a PC in tow. It depend if there is enough slack between the pin and where the bridle goes under the RH flap. Quote At 600m I was under fully inflated main with my hands collapsing the slider (so, taking into account soft/slow opening of my Spectre - I was ready to cut away at about 700 – 800 meters). Glad I said "may have been" Sounds like you were on the ball. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWPoul 1 #40 April 4, 2005 QuoteDo you have a window on your bridle that indicaes if the PC is cocked or not? Actually I have it, but the kill line hasn't the mark so I will mark it to be more confident, thanks... Quote Routing the bridle like that can cause a PC in tow. It depend if there is enough slack between the pin and where the bridle goes under the RH flap. Understood, thanks for clarify, what is your opinion about PC cocked after the pin inserted? could it be cause of deployment delay (the PC was cocked fully I am sure)? QuoteGlad I said "may have been" Sounds like you were on the ball. or I was lucky;) Thanks againWhy drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #41 April 4, 2005 Quote Understood, thanks for clarify, what is your opinion about PC cocked after the pin inserted? The problem with cocking the PC after the canopy is in the D-bag is the kill line can wrap around the canopy, pulling the kill line and collasping the PC or damaging the canopy when it comes out of the D-bag. I highly recommend cocking the PC after laying the canopy on the ground and before putting the canopy in the D-bag. Any other time invites problems. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cessna54tango 0 #42 March 21, 2007 heres what i did on my pc in tow. make sure you read nicks post before mine to get the whole story http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2381829;#2381829 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flipper 0 #43 March 26, 2007 Yep ... agree with reachin round and pulling the pin out ... done it twice myself ... no problem Flipper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouth 0 #44 March 26, 2007 I had a pin lock, attempted to pull the bridle then cut away and pulled silver because I had NO IDEA what was going on. Found out the pin had a burr on it which cut through the attachment point from the inside. Moral of the story...CHECK your pin attachments and have ANY damage replaced. Learned my lesson quickly as the high speed mal was not pretty. Of course neither was the reserve landing with the main pilot chute wrapped around the toggles on the right side. -- Hot Mama At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #45 March 26, 2007 QuoteYep ... agree with reachin round and pulling the pin out ... done it twice myself ... no problem Flipper An honest and sincere inquiry if I may: Concerning your PCITs – what created the difficult extraction? Un-cocked or Worn out PC not creating enough drag to initiate deployment or perhaps the closing loop was too tight? I am curious because the PCIT's I have had the opportunity to inspect had misrouted bridles and could be pulled with a lot of force while standing above the rig with it on the ground and the pin would not budge. So what I learned from those experiences (along with mentors suggestions) is that reaching back to pull on the bridle will usually not create sufficient force and depending on the altitude the main deployment sequence was initiated, taking the time to attempt the reach around could burn up too much precious altitude. A secondary salient point is that the suspensions lines if it could be cleared had a greater opportunity to entangle on the extremity utilized for the reach around. I am always eager to learn and re-evaluate my EP’s so further clarification would be much appreciate. Thanks… -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites