Backintothesky 0 #1 May 28, 2014 Just out of curiousity, do modern military static line rigs (for the purposes of dropping paratroops into warzones) use 3 ring release at all? I've seen that they use a front mounted reserve and of course that both reserve and main are rounds, so I'm just curious to see if they use 3 ring release or something like Capewells? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfdoc00 0 #2 May 28, 2014 With the development of newer military static line parachutes there have been "3 ring" versions along the way throughout testing. However, there are no U.S., static line, military static line parachutes currently using the 3-ring. They use a male/female canopy release assembly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leon.hill 1 #3 May 28, 2014 Not true... The MC7 personnel parachute the USMC uses the 3 ring release... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
propblast 0 #4 May 28, 2014 leon.hillNot true... The MC7 personnel parachute the USMC uses the 3 ring release... Partially true. It has three rings. But no cutaway handle. Rather a hybrid canopy release.Propblast Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leon.hill 1 #5 May 28, 2014 I'm not splitting hairs. It is a 3 ring with no release handle, but it also not a cable loop type canopy release assembly as shown in the photo above...if not a 3 ring release, what would you tell me it is called? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #6 May 28, 2014 sfdoc00a male/female canopy release assembly. shot and a halfs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Backintothesky 0 #7 May 28, 2014 I was wondering if it was that. Seems a bit of an old fashion system for modern SL rigs no? Any ideas why they haven't converted to 3 ring release with cutaway handle - especially given a number of paratroopers will also be sport skydivers... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #8 May 28, 2014 Backintothesky I was wondering if it was that. Seems a bit of an old fashion system for modern SL rigs no? Any ideas why they haven't converted to 3 ring release with cutaway handle - especially given a number of paratroopers will also be sport skydivers... I'm presuming it's because the rigs used in most lower-altitude mass airborne drops use reserves that don't have pilot chutes, and are designed to be hand-deployed while the main remains attached, so they don't want a set-up that's too easily cut-away prior to landing. You don't want an airborne jumper who might jump below 1,000 feet under combat conditions to be jettisoning his main at 400 feet. Shot and a halfs were originally designed for post-landing usage, to jettison the canopy to prevent being dragged. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me right quick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 4 #9 May 28, 2014 Andy9o8 I'm presuming it's because the rigs used in most lower-altitude mass airborne drops use reserves that don't have pilot chutes, and are designed to be hand-deployed while the main remains attached, so they don't want a set-up that's too easily cut-away prior to landing. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me right quick. The military has been moving to a pilot chute assisted reserve. There was a fatality while I was at jump school of a Marine (and several of the marines in the class were in his unit) that died on a streamered main and I recall them saying that the reserves they had weren't PCA but they were moving that direction."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #10 May 28, 2014 theonlyski *** I'm presuming it's because the rigs used in most lower-altitude mass airborne drops use reserves that don't have pilot chutes, and are designed to be hand-deployed while the main remains attached, so they don't want a set-up that's too easily cut-away prior to landing. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me right quick. The military has been moving to a pilot chute assisted reserve. There was a fatality while I was at jump school of a Marine (and several of the marines in the class were in his unit) that died on a streamered main and I recall them saying that the reserves they had weren't PCA but they were moving that direction. Really? I don't dispute you're correct, but it makes me wonder: since combat jumps altitudes are sometimes in the hundreds of feet, do they really want a PCA system at that altitude? Just seeking to learn here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 4 #11 May 28, 2014 Andy9o8 Really? I don't dispute you're correct, but it makes me wonder: since combat jumps altitudes are sometimes in the hundreds of feet, do they really want a PCA system at that altitude? Just seeking to learn here. Seems like it'd be better than trying to throw the nylon out there and hope. By PCA, I mean it's got a spring loaded PC that will kick out the canopy, not that there is some sort of MARD or anything. I'm sure a military rigger could fill in here. I was just the operator and it was before I was a civilian rigger."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 4 #12 May 28, 2014 What about the MC-5 rigged for SL deployment? "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #13 May 28, 2014 theonlyski*** Really? I don't dispute you're correct, but it makes me wonder: since combat jumps altitudes are sometimes in the hundreds of feet, do they really want a PCA system at that altitude? Just seeking to learn here. Seems like it'd be better than trying to throw the nylon out there and hope. By PCA, I mean it's got a spring loaded PC that will kick out the canopy, not that there is some sort of MARD or anything. I'm sure a military rigger could fill in here. I was just the operator and it was before I was a civilian rigger. Oh, I see; I actually did think you were referring to a MARD-ish kind of set-up. But still: I thought the conventional wisdom was that dumping a pilot-chuted reserve without cutting away the main had a high risk of main-reserve entanglement. So how has this thinking evolved more recently? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 4 #14 May 28, 2014 Andy9o8****** Really? I don't dispute you're correct, but it makes me wonder: since combat jumps altitudes are sometimes in the hundreds of feet, do they really want a PCA system at that altitude? Just seeking to learn here. Seems like it'd be better than trying to throw the nylon out there and hope. By PCA, I mean it's got a spring loaded PC that will kick out the canopy, not that there is some sort of MARD or anything. I'm sure a military rigger could fill in here. I was just the operator and it was before I was a civilian rigger. Oh, I see; I actually did think you were referring to a MARD-ish kind of set-up. But still: I thought the conventional wisdom was that dumping a pilot-chuted reserve without cutting away the main had a high risk of main-reserve entanglement. So how has this thinking evolved more recently? When in doubt, whip it out. Get as much fabric as you can out fast. Trying to throw a round reserve opposite of the direction of spin takes time, a PC will get it out in the air faster."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #15 May 28, 2014 Quote opposite of the direction of spin I was trained on & jumped both systems. You mean IN the direction of spin, right? At least, that's the way I was taught - to reduce the chance of the reserve wrapping around your body due to the spin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Backintothesky 0 #16 May 28, 2014 Yep that makes sense. I just had visions of some poor SOB at 800 feet trying desperately to release his shot and a halfs whilst weighted down by 150 pounds of kit and 200 other jumpers in the air around him! Chuck out the reserve and deal with the main later! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonathan.newman 1 #17 May 28, 2014 All of the military systems sold by CPS have a 3-ring release and a piggyback reserve. They are build off of the Vector 3 and Sigma systems. The double-bag static line design is a big improvement over traditional static line setups, as well. This thread looks like a bonfire discussion right out of Poynter! Somebody hand me an L-bar. Wait a minute, the Sigmas still use L-bars. Never mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Backintothesky 0 #18 May 28, 2014 Are they for static line jumps or military freefall though? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 4 #19 May 28, 2014 BackintotheskyAre they for static line jumps or military freefall though? While I'm not exactly sure of which rigs he's talking about, there ARE freefall rigs that can be modified (easily, already set up for it) to use SL deployment and still get the square canopy out faster."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Backintothesky 0 #20 May 28, 2014 Yeah I know, I think he might be talking about rigs that the military use for skydiving - whether for sport or HALO/HAHO drops. As far as I was aware for dumping troops out at 1000 feet on operations, they still use rounds with a front mounted reserve. Be interesting to see if they've started to change this for some reason though.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #21 May 28, 2014 You throw the reserve into the direction of spin. A combat jump might be at 400 ft. Most practice jumps are at 1250 ft. Military gear is adapted for that kind of jumping, where the reserve is on your front side. There isn't time to cut away safely at those altitudes. Soldiers are trained differently than sport jumpers. We used two-shot capewells back in 1970, for army jumps. They were a little harder to release your main, if you were getting drug.....Shot and a halfs are a lot better in my opinion. I'm not sure what year the military changed from two-shot capewells. For sport jumping in the 70's we used shot and a halfs to cut away with. The three ring release was a huge improvement for that.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Backintothesky 0 #22 May 28, 2014 So realistically, you aren't cutting away under a malfunction anyway. As you said you just chuck in the direct of the spin and cos its a front mounted round you will probably get it clear and inflated. And I guess with a 400 feet exit I guess it's a case of getting as much fabric over your head as possibly and hope for the best! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,343 #23 May 28, 2014 Hi Andy, Quotethe rigs used in most lower-altitude mass airborne drops use reserves that don't have pilot chutes I was not in the US Army & have never been Airborne rated. However, every rig used for this application that I have seen in over the last 50 yrs have had a pilot chute in the reserve container. The early ones had what we called a 'spider' pilot chute. It used a multi-spring system that folded up somewhat like an umbrella. I never thought that goofy pilot chute could ever pass any testing standard; but it was good enough for those Airborne folks. And from the lowest bidder. QuoteShot and a halfs were originally designed for post-landing usage My thinking is that Capewell needed to come with an answer to Security's One-Shot riser release system. Security patented the One-Shot system so Pioneer could not use it on their 'soon-to-be-developed' Para-Twin rig. IMO the Army was quite happy with a 2-shot release to deal with being dragged upon landing. Just the thoughts of an old guy, JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rigger226 0 #24 May 28, 2014 Modern static line reserves (T-11R) have a pilot chute (extractor) and an ejector spring which contains the closing loop. Pilot chute is folded on top of the compressed ejector spring, and then launched into the relative wind when deployed, while the ejector spring falls away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 4 #25 May 28, 2014 Thanks. What's the MIRPS have in it? I didn't think it was exactly that set up."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
