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katzas

HOW TO WRITE A CLASSIFIED AD

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Well, not exactly how--but more like what it should contain.

Let's say you're selling your complete rig. Now, some of these things may be obvious to you--but you'd be surprised at how many ads I have seen in the classified section that don't have the basics.

Ok--now to the ad.

Create an attention getting headline--not "rig for sale".

In the ad itself you should have the following even if you put some of this info in the headline for the ad;

Harness and container manufacturer, number of jumps, date of manufacture, factory designation of size and compatibility, any options, condition (is it a rat or is it pristeen?) size of human being it will fit, size of main and reserve it will take and the colors--did it ever go for a swim in the swoop pond.

Main canopy type, manufacturer, date of manufacture, any and all damage and repairs, age of lineset and type of lines, number of jumps, colors, serial number, ever in the water

Reserve canopy, number of rides and same as main with date of last repack.

AAD Manurfacturer, one pin or two, expert, speed, student, date of manufacture, any activations, date of last manufacturer recalibration if required, ever in the water.

Photos--for god's sake don't use your cell phone camera. Take a shitload of pics and then choose the best one or more.

State whether or not you will accept a rigger/escrow payment arrangement with who is responsible for what costs (shipping to and from, inspection costs, etc.) If you have a preferred rigger/loft say so.

OK--you've written your ad. Now--what's it worth? A rig is kinda like a sailboat. There are definite emotions involved in buying and selling. Leave them at the door. Do this--get the dealer prices for all your stuff brand new. Then, figure that you will lose some from that number. Don't be greedy. I recently saw an ad for a rig with an expired AAD, a main with 1500 jumps, 10 year old reserve with 4 rides and a ten year old harness and container that needed a bath. Care to guess what the asking price was? FOUR GRAND. What's it REALLY worth? The main, at least to me, is trash--with 1500 jumps on it I would probably make a tent out of it. The Cypress AAD is trash as well--ain't worth a damned thing after the magic date. So--what do we really have here? An used harness and container with a lot of jumps on it and a ten year old four ride reserve. New--they would cost about $3500.00 depending on which you buy bearing in mind that the harness will be custom fit for you.

So--the asking price of this rig was $4000.00--five hundred MORE than the equivalent new. Even if you got the seller to knock five hundred off--it's still a break even with new.

If I was going to buy that used rig I would expect to pay about $1500. Why? You need a new or used main to replace the tent--and (probably) a new AAD. Total price for both if new canopy and AAD--$3200.00. Add that to the $1500.00 I would pay and you get just under $5000.00 by the time you get a rigger inspection of the used rig, a repack, shipping--all that.

Now, there are lots of variables that effect price--like what is it worth to you to have a rig in a week.....are you willing to open a main with 1500 jumps on it head down at terminal plus.....do you care that the reserve has about 5 years left before you better think about a new one----all that and probably more.

As a seller, try to place a realistic price on your gear. Do you want to sell it or do you just want to amuse the reader of your ad? Describe it well--make it easier for your customers to know what they need to know. BE HONEST!! Maybe mention why you are selling it--downsizing, taking up billiards, whatever. Respectfully, anything else is a waste of time.

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Like the other day, I saw an ad for Raven 2 DOM 1997, Zero ride for 700 bucks.

You fucking serious?? 700 bucks, that thing was brand new back in 97 at 700 bucks, this shit ain't gold, after almost 20 years later you can not sell it for same price you've got it for.
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

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And then you spend time writing a very clear and specific ad with all of your details and you still get dumbass messages asking you for information that's in the ad. It's not as bad as craigslist around here, but it can be sometimes.

As for prices, the market will bear what the market will bear. You don't get to decide what something is "worth." You only get to decide what it's worth to you at that time. And the seller gets to decide how long they are willing/able to wait to get the price they want, or if they want to lower the price to make it more likely to move.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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NWFlyer

And then you spend time writing a very clear and specific ad with all of your details and you still get dumbass messages asking you for information that's in the ad. It's not as bad as craigslist around here, but it can be sometimes.

As for prices, the market will bear what the market will bear. You don't get to decide what something is "worth." You only get to decide what it's worth to you at that time. And the seller gets to decide how long they are willing/able to wait to get the price they want, or if they want to lower the price to make it more likely to move.



Yup--something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
Pet rocks were a prime example of people having more money than brains. Four grand for the gear I described is just plain silly as are some of the other prices I have seen on here. I asked a seller about it once--stupid money for his gear--he came back to me with full list prices as a comparison. Okie dokie--nobody I know pays full list.

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Doug_Davis

***Ad writing stuff...



Awesome post! +1

This is one of the reasons I went all new when I bought my rig. People were asking insane prices for used gear. Oh and trying to get pictures of their gear was like pulling teeth.

Yup--I just did the same thing--new everything--except for the main. A used main with 50 jumps and less than a year old (manufacturer inspected and verified) came on the market at $500.00 below dealer discounted cost. It took me ten seconds to decide to buy it. So--my brand new Icon Nexgen with a lot of bells and whistles (skyhook, mag riser covers, freefly handle, etc.), new PD reserve, damn near new main and AAD came in at just over $6K. Compare that to the rig I described. Main has been delivered to dealer--reserve is due on May 27th and Icon due at the end of June. It's gonna be a fun summer since I have two months off starting in early July (overseas now) to jump my brains out. Only problem is the Vigil 2. There' a new model coming out but nobody knows exactly when and the old ones are backordered at dealers. Looking at an M2 if I have to or jump without for a month. Don't want a Cypress because of the 4 year trip back to service center and $250.00 each time--although I think it is a good procuct. Blue skies.

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stayhigh

Like the other day, I saw an ad for Raven 2 DOM 1997, Zero ride for 700 bucks.

You fucking serious?? 700 bucks, that thing was brand new back in 97 at 700 bucks, this shit ain't gold, after almost 20 years later you can not sell it for same price you've got it for.



Anybody buying a 17 year old reserve and depending on it to save their ass is, in my opinion, nuts. Somebody selling that same reserve should be tarred and feathered. I don't care how many riggers sign off on it--the rigger who signs off doesn't have to jump it--I do. I have a lot of respect for most riggers--but they ain't god. The president of the company that makes Icarus canopies was nice enough to send me an email stating that, as a master rigger, designer and builder of parachutes he would never pack a reserve made by his company or anyone else's that was older than 15 to 18 years. That's good enough for me.

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katzas



Anybody buying a 17 year old reserve and depending on it to save their ass is, in my opinion, nuts. Somebody selling that same reserve should be tarred and feathered.



Then there are a lot of nuts in this sport. And a lot of sellers who should be tarred and feathered. :)
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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likestojump

*** Don't want a Cypress because of the 4 year trip back to service center and $250.00 each time--although I think it is a good product. Blue skies.



Are you outside US/Canada ?

Yes and will be until the first week in July.

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katzas

***Like the other day, I saw an ad for Raven 2 DOM 1997, Zero ride for 700 bucks.

You fucking serious?? 700 bucks, that thing was brand new back in 97 at 700 bucks, this shit ain't gold, after almost 20 years later you can not sell it for same price you've got it for.



Anybody buying a 17 year old reserve and depending on it to save their ass is, in my opinion, nuts. Somebody selling that same reserve should be tarred and feathered. I don't care how many riggers sign off on it--the rigger who signs off doesn't have to jump it--I do. I have a lot of respect for most riggers--but they ain't god. The president of the company that makes Icarus canopies was nice enough to send me an email stating that, as a master rigger, designer and builder of parachutes he would never pack a reserve made by his company or anyone else's that was older than 15 to 18 years. That's good enough for me.

Can we agree to disagree ? I have two large rigs used for jumping large canopies, round canopies and for flag jumps. Each one houses a 1992 and a 1993 RavenIII reserve. I sure as hell don't for a second think that those reserves are unsafe or for a second hesitate to use them.

Furhtermore, I've jumped plenty of 18+ year old gear, again, with no concern due to the age alone.

Care to state some FACTS as opposed to opinion ? Some people worry about liability, but I'd love to know of some tests done to prove that gear approaching or passing the age of 20 years is not fit for use. Until that time comes, I will continue to inspect and if deemed safe and airworthy to repack such gear.

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likestojump

******Like the other day, I saw an ad for Raven 2 DOM 1997, Zero ride for 700 bucks.

You fucking serious?? 700 bucks, that thing was brand new back in 97 at 700 bucks, this shit ain't gold, after almost 20 years later you can not sell it for same price you've got it for.



Anybody buying a 17 year old reserve and depending on it to save their ass is, in my opinion, nuts. Somebody selling that same reserve should be tarred and feathered. I don't care how many riggers sign off on it--the rigger who signs off doesn't have to jump it--I do. I have a lot of respect for most riggers--but they ain't god. The president of the company that makes Icarus canopies was nice enough to send me an email stating that, as a master rigger, designer and builder of parachutes he would never pack a reserve made by his company or anyone else's that was older than 15 to 18 years. That's good enough for me.

Can we agree to disagree ? I have two large rigs used for jumping large canopies, round canopies and for flag jumps. Each one houses a 1992 and a 1993 RavenIII reserve. I sure as hell don't for a second think that those reserves are unsafe or for a second hesitate to use them.

Furhtermore, I've jumped plenty of 18+ year old gear, again, with no concern due to the age alone.

Care to state some FACTS as opposed to opinion ? Some people worry about liability, but I'd love to know of some tests done to prove that gear approaching or passing the age of 20 years is not fit for use. Until that time comes, I will continue to inspect and if deemed safe and airworthy to repack such gear.

Sure we can agree to disagree.

As to fact vs opinion--well, I did state that it was my opinion. However, we all rely on riggers to tell us what is and what is not safe. A highly respected master rigger, designer and builder of a very popular line of canopies tells me that he wouldn't sign the packing card on any reserve older than 15-18 years----I have absolutely no problem believing him. In my opinion I will not take a canopy to terminal that is pushing 20 years old when I can afford newer gear. I can't think of a single reason why I would. Having said that, I wouldn't mind doing a hop and pop with a Para Commander again (your photo reminded me of that canopy). I'll be at Cross Keys in July--maybe we can continue this over a beer or six. First round on me.

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katzas

*********Like the other day, I saw an ad for Raven 2 DOM 1997, Zero ride for 700 bucks.

You fucking serious?? 700 bucks, that thing was brand new back in 97 at 700 bucks, this shit ain't gold, after almost 20 years later you can not sell it for same price you've got it for.



Anybody buying a 17 year old reserve and depending on it to save their ass is, in my opinion, nuts. Somebody selling that same reserve should be tarred and feathered. I don't care how many riggers sign off on it--the rigger who signs off doesn't have to jump it--I do. I have a lot of respect for most riggers--but they ain't god. The president of the company that makes Icarus canopies was nice enough to send me an email stating that, as a master rigger, designer and builder of parachutes he would never pack a reserve made by his company or anyone else's that was older than 15 to 18 years. That's good enough for me.

Can we agree to disagree ? I have two large rigs used for jumping large canopies, round canopies and for flag jumps. Each one houses a 1992 and a 1993 RavenIII reserve. I sure as hell don't for a second think that those reserves are unsafe or for a second hesitate to use them.

Furhtermore, I've jumped plenty of 18+ year old gear, again, with no concern due to the age alone.

Care to state some FACTS as opposed to opinion ? Some people worry about liability, but I'd love to know of some tests done to prove that gear approaching or passing the age of 20 years is not fit for use. Until that time comes, I will continue to inspect and if deemed safe and airworthy to repack such gear.

Sure we can agree to disagree.

As to fact vs opinion--well, I did state that it was my opinion. However, we all rely on riggers to tell us what is and what is not safe. A highly respected master rigger, designer and builder of a very popular line of canopies tells me that he wouldn't sign the packing card on any reserve older than 15-18 years----I have absolutely no problem believing him. In my opinion I will not take a canopy to terminal that is pushing 20 years old when I can afford newer gear. I can't think of a single reason why I would. Having said that, I wouldn't mind doing a hop and pop with a Para Commander again (your photo reminded me of that canopy). I'll be at Cross Keys in July--maybe we can continue this over a beer or six. First round on me.

I wouldn't ride a unicycle. That doesn't mean that they are dangerous.

This highly respected and experienced Master Rigger only stated that he won't pack those parachutes. I don't see any statements saying as to why. Could be liability. Could be some other reason.

You going to fly me out to Crosskeys ? COOL !

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katzas

. In my opinion I will not take a canopy to terminal that is pushing 20 years old



Funny, I do that all the time with my Sabre 1 (21 yrs) or Maverick (26 yrs) or even getting that way with my Icarus Extreme FX (16 yrs). Even with many hundreds of jumps on each, unlike a reserve, I don't think they're at the edge of blowing up.

But to each their own!

As for classifieds, it is tough to buy from people who don't understand their gear at all. While they may try to sell for too much, or offer a great deal, it is so hard to get proper info out of them.

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likestojump

************Like the other day, I saw an ad for Raven 2 DOM 1997, Zero ride for 700 bucks.

You fucking serious?? 700 bucks, that thing was brand new back in 97 at 700 bucks, this shit ain't gold, after almost 20 years later you can not sell it for same price you've got it for.



Anybody buying a 17 year old reserve and depending on it to save their ass is, in my opinion, nuts. Somebody selling that same reserve should be tarred and feathered. I don't care how many riggers sign off on it--the rigger who signs off doesn't have to jump it--I do. I have a lot of respect for most riggers--but they ain't god. The president of the company that makes Icarus canopies was nice enough to send me an email stating that, as a master rigger, designer and builder of parachutes he would never pack a reserve made by his company or anyone else's that was older than 15 to 18 years. That's good enough for me.

Can we agree to disagree ? I have two large rigs used for jumping large canopies, round canopies and for flag jumps. Each one houses a 1992 and a 1993 RavenIII reserve. I sure as hell don't for a second think that those reserves are unsafe or for a second hesitate to use them.

Furhtermore, I've jumped plenty of 18+ year old gear, again, with no concern due to the age alone.

Care to state some FACTS as opposed to opinion ? Some people worry about liability, but I'd love to know of some tests done to prove that gear approaching or passing the age of 20 years is not fit for use. Until that time comes, I will continue to inspect and if deemed safe and airworthy to repack such gear.

Sure we can agree to disagree.

As to fact vs opinion--well, I did state that it was my opinion. However, we all rely on riggers to tell us what is and what is not safe. A highly respected master rigger, designer and builder of a very popular line of canopies tells me that he wouldn't sign the packing card on any reserve older than 15-18 years----I have absolutely no problem believing him. In my opinion I will not take a canopy to terminal that is pushing 20 years old when I can afford newer gear. I can't think of a single reason why I would. Having said that, I wouldn't mind doing a hop and pop with a Para Commander again (your photo reminded me of that canopy). I'll be at Cross Keys in July--maybe we can continue this over a beer or six. First round on me.

I wouldn't ride a unicycle. That doesn't mean that they are dangerous.

This highly respected and experienced Master Rigger only stated that he won't pack those parachutes. I don't see any statements saying as to why. Could be liability. Could be some other reason.

You going to fly me out to Crosskeys ? COOL !

Liability or other reasons? Well, as to liability--absolutely. Knowingly packing and certifying a reserve that is that old may indeed lead to a liability issue.......for a reason. As to other reasons why he wouldn't pack it--I specifically asked him whether or not a canopy that old was safe to use (as a reserve--in this particular case a Raven). He responded to my question in the context of safety--not about liability. I suppose he could mean that he just doesn't like to pack reserves at all--but I doubt it.

A master rigger looks you in the eye and says, "I won't pack this" in response to your question about whether or not it is safe to use. I think most people would conclude he is trying to tell me something and maybe I should listen to him. I wasn't asking him to pack a 20 year old Raven, I was asking him if it was, in his expert opinion, safe to use. I got the message.

PD requires inspection at the factory of their reserves periodically--and puts a defacto limit of 20 years on the useful life of a reserve canopy. They have also, in several cases, refused to return a canopy to a skydiver (and offered a discount on a new canopy or a direct replacement for no charge) that they believed was unsafe in some way. Hey, the guys who make these things for a living tell me that the canopy I am using is probably unsafe--do I believe them? Hell yes. Do I read into their motivation that they just want to make my life difficult or make a couple of bucks on a new canopy? Not when I look at what their profit might be on that one deal--nope.

Vigil and Cypress both have expiry dates on their AADs. Could you use one past it's expiry date? Maybe. Would you? Also maybe. But I won't.

I have yet to see a reason to use really old gear. Can you provide one?

My first jump was on a B-4 container with a T-10 in it. Would I use one today? Nope. If you want to--fine.

I haven't said anywhere in our conversation that you can't or shouldn't use twenty year old stuff. I HAVE said that, in my opinion--and in the opinion of a guy who has had thirty years experience in design, manufacture and research of parachutes--it isn't safe. That is the choice I make--you can make your own.

As to flying you to Cross Keys--well, I don't think I said a thing about that. But my offer of the first round stands if you find yourself there when I'm there.

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katzas



Liability or other reasons? Well, as to liability--absolutely. Knowingly packing and certifying a reserve that is that old may indeed lead to a liability issue.......for a reason. As to other reasons why he wouldn't pack it--I specifically asked him whether or not a canopy that old was safe to use (as a reserve--in this particular case a Raven). He responded to my question in the context of safety--not about liability. I suppose he could mean that he just doesn't like to pack reserves at all--but I doubt it.

A master rigger looks you in the eye and says, "I won't pack this" in response to your question about whether or not it is safe to use. I think most people would conclude he is trying to tell me something and maybe I should listen to him. I wasn't asking him to pack a 20 year old Raven, I was asking him if it was, in his expert opinion, safe to use. I got the message.



What you are saying points to inference - Unless told specifically, you are assuming that the person meant what they did not say. You may be wrong. Or the person may just not have wanted to give a direct answer. We won't know until they state specifically what their stance on the issue is.

katzas


PD requires inspection at the factory of their reserves periodically--and puts a defacto limit of 20 years on the useful life of a reserve canopy. They have also, in several cases, refused to return a canopy to a skydiver (and offered a discount on a new canopy or a direct replacement for no charge) that they believed was unsafe in some way.



And the statements right above is where you loose your credibility...

You are rehashing invalid information along with what I think are just urban legends.
PD most definitely DOES NOT put a 20 year life on their gear. I have had them re-cert, repair and just plain inspect 20+ year old reserves on multiple occasions.
I do not for a second believe that PD would refuse to return a canopy. They simply cannot do so under the US laws. The canopy is the property of the owner, and PD has no rights to it. To not return it is to commit theft. PD can refuse to service and can refuse to certify anything that is sent to their factory, but that's where their rights end. They cannot deface, destroy or steal your property. This is not different than the reason why there still are Ford Pinto's on the road - Ford cannot force the owners to sell them back, or to modify them. They can only suggest to do so.

katzas


Vigil and Cypress both have expiry dates on their AADs. Could you use one past it's expiry date? Maybe. Would you? Also maybe. But I won't.



I won't either. As that would be illegal from FAA's standpoint.

katzas


I have yet to see a reason to use really old gear. Can you provide one?



This is the question that can be debated forever. The bottom line is that no one is forced to use old gear. Everyone is welcome to buy and own whatever their heart desires. If YOU have a personal rule of owning things under 18 years of age - then you can always trash things as they become too old for your safety. There are no rules necessary for you to do that.

My PERSONAL reasons for using older things is that I have many rigs that seldom get used, but I like to have at my disposal. I could not justify having them be nice and shiny 5K pieces of gear, but can certainly afford for them to sit around when they cost me under $1K

katzas


My first jump was on a B-4 container with a T-10 in it. Would I use one today? Nope. If you want to--fine.


No argument there. But I'd like to know how you squeezed a T10 into a B4.

katzas


I haven't said anywhere in our conversation that you can't or shouldn't use twenty year old stuff. I HAVE said that, in my opinion--and in the opinion of a guy who has had thirty years experience in design, manufacture and research of parachutes--it isn't safe. That is the choice I make--you can make your own.


Is your opinion based on facts, or just hearsay and your understanding of the between the lines reading of what one Master Rigger had to say ?

PS since in one of your posts in this thread you claimed $250 for Cypres service, and then pointed out that you are US based - I would like to count that as another strike away from your credibility. The service is $160 + shipping.

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likestojump

***

Liability or other reasons? Well, as to liability--absolutely. Knowingly packing and certifying a reserve that is that old may indeed lead to a liability issue.......for a reason. As to other reasons why he wouldn't pack it--I specifically asked him whether or not a canopy that old was safe to use (as a reserve--in this particular case a Raven). He responded to my question in the context of safety--not about liability. I suppose he could mean that he just doesn't like to pack reserves at all--but I doubt it.

A master rigger looks you in the eye and says, "I won't pack this" in response to your question about whether or not it is safe to use. I think most people would conclude he is trying to tell me something and maybe I should listen to him. I wasn't asking him to pack a 20 year old Raven, I was asking him if it was, in his expert opinion, safe to use. I got the message.



What you are saying points to inference - Unless told specifically, you are assuming that the person meant what they did not say. You may be wrong. Or the person may just not have wanted to give a direct answer. We won't know until they state specifically what their stance on the issue is.

katzas


PD requires inspection at the factory of their reserves periodically--and puts a defacto limit of 20 years on the useful life of a reserve canopy. They have also, in several cases, refused to return a canopy to a skydiver (and offered a discount on a new canopy or a direct replacement for no charge) that they believed was unsafe in some way.



And the statements right above is where you loose your credibility...

You are rehashing invalid information along with what I think are just urban legends.
PD most definitely DOES NOT put a 20 year life on their gear. I have had them re-cert, repair and just plain inspect 20+ year old reserves on multiple occasions.
I do not for a second believe that PD would refuse to return a canopy. They simply cannot do so under the US laws. The canopy is the property of the owner, and PD has no rights to it. To not return it is to commit theft. PD can refuse to service and can refuse to certify anything that is sent to their factory, but that's where their rights end. They cannot deface, destroy or steal your property. This is not different than the reason why there still are Ford Pinto's on the road - Ford cannot force the owners to sell them back, or to modify them. They can only suggest to do so.

PD kept a canopy that was unsafe and sent their customer a new one--believe it was a Pulse. They would not return the original canopy but made it good with a new one. Call them and ask. Credibility my tukus.

katzas


Vigil and Cypress both have expiry dates on their AADs. Could you use one past it's expiry date? Maybe. Would you? Also maybe. But I won't.



I won't either. As that would be illegal from FAA's standpoint.

katzas


I have yet to see a reason to use really old gear. Can you provide one?



This is the question that can be debated forever. The bottom line is that no one is forced to use old gear. Everyone is welcome to buy and own whatever their heart desires. If YOU have a personal rule of owning things under 18 years of age - then you can always trash things as they become too old for your safety. There are no rules necessary for you to do that.

My PERSONAL reasons for using older things is that I have many rigs that seldom get used, but I like to have at my disposal. I could not justify having them be nice and shiny 5K pieces of gear, but can certainly afford for them to sit around when they cost me under $1K

Again--I have NEVER said you shouldn't use whatever gear you want. You want to strap on a 20 year old harness with the same vintage canopies inside--absolutely. This conversation started with my suggestions on what to include in a classified ad and to get real about pricing that gear. Somehow it has devolved into a pissing match about how old is too old. Here is what I will do....and have done......I looked at the classified ads on here for well over a year looking for decent gear that I could use for a reasonable price. I struck out. I weigh 220 out the door, stand 6 ft 1 in tall and have used rental gear, borrowed gear, and, in the past, my own new stuff. I looked at the prices that people are asking for ancient gear--for gear with too many jumps, damage, expired AADs, and also for not-so ancient gear that just didn't fit the bill for my size and style. I included a commentary on the pricing in my narrative about writing an effective classified ad.
I will not pay $4000.00 (or anything close) for a main with 1500 jumps, a ten year old reserve with 4 rides, an expired Cypress and a ten year old Micron container that the seller admits is dirty. If you or anyone else wants to do that--be my guest. It does seem that many others who are in the market for a rig have come to the same conclusion I did--that the price asked for much of the used gear here is Twilight Zone material when compared to the equivalent new stuff.

With regard to your many rigs--well good for you. I will have only one--at least for the foreseeable future. I choose to pay what I can afford for the best stuff I can get. You are completely free to do whatever you wish as well.

katzas


My first jump was on a B-4 container with a T-10 in it. Would I use one today? Nope. If you want to--fine.




No argument there. But I'd like to know how you squeezed a T10 into a B4.

I didn't. A rigger did.

katzas


I haven't said anywhere in our conversation that you can't or shouldn't use twenty year old stuff. I HAVE said that, in my opinion--and in the opinion of a guy who has had thirty years experience in design, manufacture and research of parachutes--it isn't safe. That is the choice I make--you can make your own.


Is your opinion based on facts, or just hearsay and your understanding of the between the lines reading of what one Master Rigger had to say ?

My opinion on this was based on the question I asked and the answer I got. I specifically asked about the safety of an old Raven reserve that someone had for sale specifically and only based on it's age. I received the answer in the same context as the question I asked--that being "is it safe to jump?". I may not be the brightest bulb on the string--but when I ask a specific question of the manufacturer of the Raven and the president of that company replies with those words--well--I think that verdict is pretty obvious. There was little if any wiggle room in his reply--and no reading between the lines could possibly change the clear meaning of those words. You can spin it all you want--that doesn't make it any less clear to me.


PS since in one of your posts in this thread you claimed $250 for Cypres service, and then pointed out that you are US based - I would like to count that as another strike away from your credibility. The service is $160 + shipping.

OK--so sue me for $80.00. It's still nearly $400.00 during the 12 year lifespan not to mention the downtime while it is being checked. I wouldn't have to pay that with a Vigil--which claims a 20 year life. If being wrong about 80 bucks destroys my credibility then fine. Methinks that is reaching just a bit.

I have stated my opinions--you have stated yours. Bottom line? Jump whatever gear you want--make whatever choice you wish. So will I (within my abilities and physical realities). OK?

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