Cover story Triathlon to Spectre

[cloud9 0]

So I read the cover story of upsizing from a Triathlon 210 to a Spectre 230. The jumper is 66 yrs. old and has had a hip replacement, so far makes sense. Then I read that this jumper has over 2300 jumps and a pro rating. The jumper in question fly’s the Spectre so bad he ends up breaking himself. I’m really not trying to disrespect the jumper but surely there is more to this story right? I mean I just find it hard to believe that 2300 jumps and a pro rating can’t handle an upsize and very slight canopy design change. At 100 jumps I went from a Triathlon 175 to a Hornet 150 with no issues at all and I’m a long way from a prodigy. Perhaps eyesight or something else is involved here? I don’t know is it just me that think there must be more to the story? I really do think it may be eyesight; depth perception would make sense here.

[iwanttofly 0]

Well, I fly Spectre and timing of flare could be a challenge on first few jumps before you get use to it. It shouldn't be braking bones challenge. I see it more as a promotion to slowly rising trend of up sizing. Too many people get hurt under small canopies flying them into ground. Lets just say for some, me included, small and fast might not be desirable option. It takes few injuries and for some, new body parts to realize what is more important in life. Jumpers go with smaller and smaller canopies till they get really hurt and then it goes back up to a bigger one.

[mattjw916 2]

human error, we all are susceptible... never think you're too good to fuck up

"learn from other's mistakes because you don't have time to make them all yourself"

humility is a breath of fresh air in a sport that generally only rewards dick waving and risk taking

now hold my beer and watch this!

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[peek 20]

cloud9

...very slight canopy design change.

Perhaps some of us that have jumped a number of canopies of various designs and sizes might think that the design difference in a Triathlon and Spectre is slight, but I think the Spectre is the first slightly elliptical canopy that he has jumped.

And mainly, he admitted that he did not study up on the differences, no matter how small they might be.

As far as I know, Dave has no vision issues.

[D22369 0]

it just takes a small lapse in judgement on any canopy to hurt yourself no matter how many jumps you have. upsizing is not a get out of pain card.

having over 2k jumps means his store of knowledge and bag of tricks is bigger than someone with 100 jumps but doesn't grant any more luck - sometimes it just runs out if the brain fart occurs close to the ground.

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[D22369 0]

***humility is a breath of fresh air in a sport that generally only rewards dick waving and risk taking


now THAT is an awesome sig line right there!

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[voilsb 1]

The impression I got reading the article is that his 2300 jumps are more like 300 jumps, plus one or two jumps 2000 times. So he changed canopies and tried to do the exact same jump he's done 2000 times, and it didn't work because it was a different jump.

Brian

[cloud9 0]

Interesting dialog all valid points, but still with a pro rating it just doesn’t seem quite right to me. This man is obviously very accurate with his canopy flying. Although I admit I’ve never jumped a Spectre, I’ve jumped quite a few other canopies. I went from a 28 ft 7TU round to a P.C. to a Strato Star to modern designs. But in any case it seemed odd and that there may have been an underlying issue that needs to be addressed. Perhaps not I do realize anyone can break themselves on any given jump, I’ve been there too. But by his own admission he is having trouble flying the Spectre. Like I said no disrespect, I’m glad the article is there. I’m just trying to wrap my mind around it as I’m sure some of the younger jumpers are.

[Zlew 0]

I thought the same thing when I read it. Something sounded unusual in having that much trouble with an upsize with that much experience. Several band landings and an ambulance ride in that situation seems very unusual. The wings are pretty similar (esp. when you add in an upsize...) and I wouldn't anticipate anyone with moderate currency/experience to have such significant problems.

[DSE 3]

Quote

I’ve jumped quite a few other canopies. I went from a 28 ft 7TU round to a P.C. to a Strato Star to modern designs.

Good for you.I've done this so you should be able to, too" method of determining ability is dangerous.
It's a sidebar to this issue, but I suspect one reason we're seeing so many people go in or be seriously injured lately, is they saw it on YouTube and figured "if he can do it, so can I."
Or worse, the "coaches" that say "I'm fine under this canopy so you should be."

We're all different. Reaction times as someone gets older, muscle memory as someone tries something new, motorskill degradation due to time off over winter, or just a plain ole' brain-fart at a low altitude can cause serious hurt.
I struggled with a new canopy for at least 25 jumps simply because the flare was much different. Could I land it? Sure. With grace? Not so much. Were I 10 years older, I'm not sure if I'd managed it at all.

[cloud9 0]

One question when you struggled with your new canopy was it an upsize?
As for age I'm 60 and it definitely effects the body, but experience trumps that if it's not more demanding physically.

I wish ole Dusty Dave would chime in because I still think there is an underlying problem that he may need to have looked at. Could make all the difference in the world. I know I had a bad landing that I can attribute to new glasses, first landing with bi-focals

[iowa 0]

I've jumped a lot of different canopies (anywhere from 101 to 425) and the one I hate most is the Spectre. I really can't quantify why but it doesn't "behave" the same as others. Openings, great; flying, OK; landing a Spectre I haven't figured out. I can land it OK but not what I would expect.

I've jumped several from 150 to 210 and just don't get that canopy.

Keith

''Always do sober what you said you would do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.'' - Ernest Hemingway

[DSE 3]

cloud9

One question when you struggled with your new canopy was it an upsize?
As for age I'm 60 and it definitely effects the body, but experience trumps that if it's not more demanding physically.

I upsized from a 135 to a 210 after an accident, then back to the 135 following a fairly rapid series of re-downsizing. Then I upsized again to a 150, which is what I'm jumping now. I'm not quite as old as you, but close.
The biggest physically demanding difference comes at the front riser, but it's not significant.

[chuckakers 370]

peek

***...very slight canopy design change.

Perhaps some of us that have jumped a number of canopies of various designs and sizes might think that the design difference in a Triathlon and Spectre is slight, but I think the Spectre is the first slightly elliptical canopy that he has jumped.

And mainly, he admitted that he did not study up on the differences, no matter how small they might be.

As far as I know, Dave has no vision issues.

Peek makes good points. I'll add that the Spectre has a flare that can be a bit tough to time. The power in the flare is particularly short-lived, so if it is timed improperly or is performed too slowly or quickly it can result in a "positive" landing.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[faulknerwn 36]

The one big difference I've noticed between the Triathlon and Spectre flares is that the Spectre flare is a lot lower (especially noticeable for us short people.) My Triathlons level off mid-chest and I finish the flare from there. I put 50 jumps on a Spectre 150 and it didn't level off until my hips. It had a powerful flare but it was MUCH lower than I was used to.

[chuckakers 370]

faulknerwn

The one big difference I've noticed between the Triathlon and Spectre flares is that the Spectre flare is a lot lower (especially noticeable for us short people.) My Triathlons level off mid-chest and I finish the flare from there. I put 50 jumps on a Spectre 150 and it didn't level off until my hips. It had a powerful flare but it was MUCH lower than I was used to.

Good observation, Wendy. I see a lot of folks stab pretty hard at the very bottom after the first 3/4 of the flare fails to stop their descent. Then they get that "late hard flare" pop up.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[Kat4821 0]

So for the Spectre pilots out there-- Is that canopy a fun canopy to fly even though the "flare sucks"?

I am 6'3''(ish) and I have long arms, so if I were to fly it, would I have a hard time with the flare? From what I have read, the Spectre comes with a tad bit more toggle line..

How much does the Spectre fly at higher WL? Im just asking to get knowledge.

[voilsb 1]

I flew a Spectre190 a little on student status and don't really remember it.

I flew a Spectre170 loaded at 1.2:1 a couple weeks ago for a weekend, and I felt it had a very easy to time, strong flare and was fun to zip around the sky, too. I was extremely surprised.

Brian

[DanG 1]

Quote

So for the Spectre pilots out there-- Is that canopy a fun canopy to fly even though the "flare sucks"?

I am 6'3''(ish) and I have long arms, so if I were to fly it, would I have a hard time with the flare? From what I have read, the Spectre comes with a tad bit more toggle line..

How much does the Spectre fly at higher WL? Im just asking to get knowledge.

Since no one responded to you yet, I'll give it a go.

The Spectre flare doesn't suck. I'm sorry you got that impression from this thread. It is just different than other canopies, so some people have to get used to it.

I had a Spectre 150 for about 400 jumps, loaded at about 1.4. I thought it was a great canopy. It opened well, was fun to fly, and I learned a lot on it. Some people don't like it, but some people do, just like everything else in life.

And brake lines below the toggle eye are 100% adjustable by your rigger (or even yourself if you want). There is a lower limit as to how short you should make them, so the tail isn't being pulled down in full flight, and an upper limit since you want to be able to flare all the way, but anything in-between goes.

- Dan G

[faulknerwn 36]

Very true. I find that I like the triathlon better than the spectre and way better than the storm because it flies far more like a 'normal' 9 cell. I put 8 jumps on a storm and never stood a single one up. By the 8th jump I was merely going down to my knees :). And I had probably 6-7000 jumps on small 7-cell canopies at the time!

Different canopies can flare extremely different even if theoretically similar.