Which AAD to get? Vigil II, Cypres 2, M2?

[valoche 0]

Hi!

I'm on the market for an AAD, and being new to the sport I'm having a hard time making up my mind on which one to get.
I'd love to get your thoughts on the M2 as well.

Thanks!

[Skydivesg 6]

valoche

Hi!

I'm on the market for an AAD, and being new to the sport I'm having a hard time making up my mind on which one to get.
I'd love to get your thoughts on the M2 as well.

Thanks!

Vigil II + announced yesterday.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[mcstain 0]

Skydivesg

Vigil II + announced yesterday.

I can't find any information on this, do you have any?

[ronny2 0]

Here You go:

[pchapman 261]

Thanks Ronny. I started a new Gear & Rigging thread in case anyone wants to talk about the Vigil 2+ specifically...

[valoche 0]

Thanks for the info on the Vigil II.
Any opinions out there on the M2?

[parachutist 1]

valoche

Thanks for the info on the Vigil II.
Any opinions out there on the M2?

Vigil IIs have been a pleasure to work with. In those rare cases where support is needed, the manufacturer is quick to resolve any questions or issues.

I like the M2 so far. It's still new in the US market, so I don't have enough experience with them yet to say it's great, but no reasons to say it's not great. Make sure it's approved by the manufacturer of the container, or make sure it's one of those container manufacturers that says they have no clue about AADs so they neither approve nor disapprove.

Cypres 2 - A reliable staple. I don't like the requirement to send them in every 4 years. It's a thorough way to test the equipment, but then if you're in a year-round jumpable climate, it puts kinks in the jumping and it leaves thousands of $$ worth of skydiving gear sitting around my hangar for weeks while waiting on the service to be performed and shipping to happen, and credit cards to get charged. That's why this brand has been on the bottom of my list in recent years.

Chris

[valoche 0]

parachutist

Vigil IIs have been a pleasure to work with. In those rare cases where support is needed, the manufacturer is quick to resolve any questions or issues.

I like the M2 so far. It's still new in the US market, so I don't have enough experience with them yet to say it's great, but no reasons to say it's not great. Make sure it's approved by the manufacturer of the container, or make sure it's one of those container manufacturers that says they have no clue about AADs so they neither approve nor disapprove.

Cypres 2 - A reliable staple. I don't like the requirement to send them in every 4 years. It's a thorough way to test the equipment, but then if you're in a year-round jumpable climate, it puts kinks in the jumping and it leaves thousands of $$ worth of skydiving gear sitting around my hangar for weeks while waiting on the service to be performed and shipping to happen, and credit cards to get charged. That's why this brand has been on the bottom of my list in recent years.

Chris

Thanks for the tips Chris!

[lyosha 46]

valoche

Hi!

I'm on the market for an AAD, and being new to the sport I'm having a hard time making up my mind on which one to get.
I'd love to get your thoughts on the M2 as well.

Thanks!

Had a cypres. Sent it in for servicing. Decided I wanted to jump my own gear. Did some math, sold the cypres, bought a Vigil.

The cost of having a vigil is half that of a cypres, but the primary reason I chose Vigil is because when i stopped by my rigger he had a Vigil on him, and no cypres units.

[DSE 3]

Having 7 rigs, it was an easy decision for me (Student rigs, personal rigs, and demo rig). I chose Vigil.
A-It's less hassle, easy to use.
B-No need to send it in, which reduces the overall cost.
C-Company support was great.

All that said, I have two Cypres II units, and five Vigil II. I bought Cypres in the beginning, because my DZO told me it was the only way to go. After attending my first PIA, I realized there were better alternatives after seeing both products side by side.

[kontiki 0]

DSE

I bought Cypres in the beginning, because my DZO told me it was the only way to go. After attending my first PIA, I realized there were better alternatives after seeing both products side by side.

Would you care to elaborate on this point? I'm looking to purchase an AAD and would love to hear your argument. I've been told that the logic employed by the Cypres 2 is more sophisticated and there are fewer ways to fuck up with it vice the Vigil (e.g. not turning it off between DZ's).

[councilman24 36]

In 10 years your Vigil with have 10 year old software. Your Cypres will have been updated twice. You can see this effect where the manual has different instructions for differing serial numbers. Vigils need batteries. Cypres' get batteries with the 4 year service. I appreciate having my last chance to live being tested and maintained on a regular basis.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[DSE 3]

I don't know if the logic is more sophisticated or not, and don't really care. I saw both units torn apart, both are quite well built. The difference I saw in customer approach from the two companies is what impressed me, and the customer service from Vigil has blown away what SSK offers (by leaps and bounds).

Getting info from a Vigil is ridiculously easy, I like that. it's played a role in two incidents I've been a part of investigating.

Vigil II will turn off after 14 hours (assuming you WANT it to). My personal units turn off. My student Vigils don't (they are not permitted to leave the DZ).

Both are good products, can't say anything bad about Cypres either. But when I did send in my personal Vigils for upgrades, I was fortunate enough that they had free of charge loaner units available. SSK charges rental. Cutters are field replaceable too, and that's a nice bennie from Vigil.
At the end of the day, I was impressed and continue to be impressed by the dedication to customer service that Vigil showed me 6 years ago.

[edit] just saw Terry's comment, and it's a valid point. Vigil doesn't REQUIRE you to send in your units for an expensive upgrade and battery check, they offer you the opportunity to do so on your own time, their dime. If one chooses to not upgrade, that's a choice, as I mentioned before, I chose to not have my student units shut off. YMMV.

[piisfish 135]

DSE

Cutters are field replaceable too, and that's a nice bennie from Vigil.

and how is that different from Cypres ?

Pro's and Con's for both, everyone needs to make his choice according to his beliefs. I am in the German church

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[skydiverek 54]

kontiki

I've been told that the logic employed by the Cypres 2 is more sophisticated and there are fewer ways to fuck up with it vice the Vigil (e.g. not turning it off between DZ's).

Please elaborate.

[DSE 3]

Older Vigil units didn't shut off after 14 hours; some users prefer it this way and power them down manually. Vigil offers a free software upgrade that forces the unit to power down after 14 hours.

Why does this matter? One recent example is that a skydiver owned an older model and chose to not have it upgraded (it is believed he knew of the option) He turned on his unit at one dropzone, went to another DZ with a lower altitude. He jumped, and because of the 1100' difference, his AAD fired when he deployed lower than 2500'. The AAD armed and fired at what it thought was 1100'. he had a two out.

turning off your unit at the end of the day is a good practice. If the rig will never leave the DZ, it's equally a viable option to never have it turn off (unless manually instructed to).

[piisfish 135]

turning it off before putting your rig in a vehicle as the manual mandates is a pretty good idea too.
It would have saved him A LOT

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[mattjw916 2]

councilman24

In 10 years your Vigil with have 10 year old software. Your Cypres will have been updated twice. You can see this effect where the manual has different instructions for differing serial numbers. Vigils need batteries. Cypres' get batteries with the 4 year service. I appreciate having my last chance to live being tested and maintained on a regular basis.

Seconded.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[CaptnCrunch 0]

DSE

Why does this matter? One recent example is that a skydiver owned an older model and chose to not have it upgraded (it is believed he knew of the option) He turned on his unit at one dropzone, went to another DZ with a lower altitude. He jumped, and because of the 1100' difference, his AAD fired when he deployed lower than 2500'. The AAD armed and fired at what it thought was 1100'. he had a two out.

i hope that was not the San Diego one ?

[Skydivesg 6]

mattjw916

***In 10 years your Vigil with have 10 year old software. Your Cypres will have been updated twice. You can see this effect where the manual has different instructions for differing serial numbers. Vigils need batteries. Cypres' get batteries with the 4 year service. I appreciate having my last chance to live being tested and maintained on a regular basis.

Seconded.

As has been stated in the past, you may request maintenance for your Vigil just like Cypres. It's just that it's not mandatory.

Just to add a little clarity for those who are not well informed, I've copied this Offer for Maintenance form from Vigil.

Some Vigil owners choose to have their device checked every two years.

***********************************************

Offer for Maintenance on Vigil II Civil

For those countries that require a scheduled maintenance, we offer the following:

Description of a 4 year check-up
1) Check of the original warranty Q.C. Hologram
2) Disassembling VIGIL
3) Control and Test of the Cutter Unit
4) Control and Test of the Control Unit
5) Replacement of the Battery Pack
6) Replacement of the rubber sealing ring
7) Control and Test of the Pulses Plus Element (integrated in point 10)
8) Calibration of the Pressure Sensor in the tolerance of ± 1,5 mbar
9) Upgrade of the main board software to the newest version available.
10) Final operational Test (7 jumps simulation in pressure chamber Go & NoGo)
11) Assembling all Vigil sub-parts
12) Check-Up and Test of the complete assembly
13) Analyze report
14) Service card with new silver Hologram(s)

Remark: The Vigil doesn’t need a scheduled maintenance but can be done on request for Vigil II civil

Extra info: The Vigil (cutter, pulses plus, electronic) has a life expectancy of 20 years
from original date of manufacture.

The battery has a minimum life expectancy of 5 years or 2000 jumps but must be replaced after 10 years from its date of manufacture.

*****************************************
Everything between the asterisks *** is from the Vigil form.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[Andrei_Serban 1]

And how much does it cost to have this done?

(With Cypres it's 250 euros, here in Europe; that includes batteries but not the shipping.)

[hackish 8]

Andrei_Serban

And how much does it cost to have this done?

(With Cypres it's 250 euros, here in Europe; that includes batteries but not the shipping.)

I believe the last vigil I sent in at the owner's option cost $80 but I don't recall exactly. Up in Canada it's expensive to ship an AAD down for service and locally it's rare for me to see a cypres anymore. Turns out everyone replaced them with Vigils when they expired at 12 years.

While I have a Vigil in each of my rigs I wouldn't be against using a Cypres or MARS as I believe all those products are safe enough.

-Michael

[sammielu 3]

This thread has good AAD discussion:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4699081;page=unread#unread

[piisfish 135]

Andrei_Serban

And how much does it cost to have this done?

(With Cypres it's 250 euros, here in Europe; that includes batteries but not the shipping.)

This is definitely NOT the Airtec cost.
Ask your rigger for the breakdown of his cost.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Skydivesg 6]

Andrei_Serban

And how much does it cost to have this done?

(With Cypres it's 250 euros, here in Europe; that includes batteries but not the shipping.)

The most recent time for this service by Vigil was 150 euros - includes batteries but not shipping.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.