Which AAD to get? Vigil II, Cypres 2, M2?

[lyosha 48]

obatzda

another thing is what happens to all the cypres aads after their lifetime? there is this deal with 100euros off when u order a new cypres and send your old to them, i wonder which components they take out of the old unit to reuse in the newer models, since many sensors and chips they use arent produced anymore today.

Probably none. They just want you to buy another cypres and are giving you some incentive to do so.

[piisfish 136]

lyosha

***another thing is what happens to all the cypres aads after their lifetime? there is this deal with 100euros off when u order a new cypres and send your old to them, i wonder which components they take out of the old unit to reuse in the newer models, since many sensors and chips they use arent produced anymore today.

Probably none. They just want you to buy another cypres and are giving you some incentive to do so.for once I agree with Lyosha.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Pobrause 6]

piisfish

******another thing is what happens to all the cypres aads after their lifetime? there is this deal with 100euros off when u order a new cypres and send your old to them, i wonder which components they take out of the old unit to reuse in the newer models, since many sensors and chips they use arent produced anymore today.

Probably none. They just want you to buy another cypres and are giving you some incentive to do so.for once I agree with Lyosha.

I talked to a Cypres representative a few years ago, exactly what he said.

-------------------------------------------------------

To absent friends

[gowlerk 2,097]

Pobrause

*********another thing is what happens to all the cypres aads after their lifetime? there is this deal with 100euros off when u order a new cypres and send your old to them, i wonder which components they take out of the old unit to reuse in the newer models, since many sensors and chips they use arent produced anymore today.

Probably none. They just want you to buy another cypres and are giving you some incentive to do so.for once I agree with Lyosha.

I talked to a Cypres representative a few years ago, exactly what he said.


The CYPRES trade in program is not quite as generous as 100 euros. And the unit can only be up to one year out of date. Details are here.

http://www.cypres.cc/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=153&Itemid=104&lang=en

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[hackish 8]

lyosha

Probably none. They just want you to buy another cypres and are giving you some incentive to do so.

I think the objective was more to get the devices out of circulation because in some countries people would simply purchase old expired units and install/use them where this practice was legal.

-Michael

[mirino 0]

I personally don't see any reason to get Cypres 2. 4 ear service interval can be good for prevent problems but lifetime 12 years is like a joke when for less money you can get M2 or Vigil 2 with 15 or even 20 years lifetime. Also cypres control unit is much bigger than M2 so it needs a lot of place under the reserve.

[virgin-burner 1]

and who are YOU!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[lyosha 48]

Yeah, address, telephone number social security number and shoe size or they won't believe your opinion can be valid!

[FataMorgana 0]

Hi Mirino,

Since, one of your AAD choices is M2 I wonder whether you could provide some more background info on the immediate ban on MPAAD issued in the Czech Republic on Sep 23 .

http://www.caa.cz/file/7994

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

Stephen Hawking

[gowlerk 2,097]

FataMorgana

Hi Mirino,

Since, one of your AAD choices is M2 I wonder whether you could provide some more background info on the immediate ban on MPAAD issued in the Czech Republic on Sep 23 .

http://www.caa.cz/file/7994

Just a note here. MPAAD and M2 are completely different products. There is no recall or ban on the M2 anywhere in the world that I am aware of.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[jbscout2002 1]

For what it's worth, this is my first rig and AAD, but I went with the M2. I downloaded all three user manuals and read them cover to cover, and then I read about the history of AAD and Air Tech and Argus.

One thing the M2 had against it was that it was new and untested. So I checked out Mars a.s. They did introduce their first AAD in 2003, but it never really caught on in the skydiving market. They do have a long history of building AAD and emergency equipment and weaponry for various militaries, with the Mig being one of their major contracts. They must be doing something right because he Mig is an awesome plane.

I liked the price. Lowest up front price, then hassle free and no additional costs with scheduled maintenance for its 15 year service life. Some people say the money difference here is negligible, but it is a couple hundred up front and the several hundred for the rigging, shipping, and maintenance. I have seen incident reports where a fatality occurred the weekend that jumpers AAD was out for maintenance. I think an AAD save is a once in a life time save, if ever for most jumpers. I feel comfortable that the M2 will work as well as the others on that day, and God forbid that be the one weekend I was jumping without.

I also liked the activation altitudes. Cypress 2 is 750, Vigil 2+ is 840, and M2 is 885. This is expert mode or advanced mode I think it was on Vigil, all at the speed of 78 mph or above, I like that little bit of extra altitude that the M2 gives me.

I also liked that the M2 is in a brushed aluminum housing with a SS control unit and an SS cutter that has a shape with folate edges to keep it fm rolling and binding the closing loop. The other two have plastic housings.

[virgin-burner 1]

well, you can set your cypres2 to activate at any height. havent done your homework well enough.

as for metal-housing, that also adds additonal weight. nothing wrong with "plastics", as it can easily be more durable than "metal".

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[lyosha 48]

virgin-burner

well, you can set your cypres2 to activate at any height.

Vigil as well. Mine is set to fire at 150 ft higher than standard pro firing altitude.

[jbscout2002 1]

virgin-burner

well, you can set your cypres2 to activate at any height. havent done your homework well enough.

as for metal-housing, that also adds additonal weight. nothing wrong with "plastics", as it can easily be more durable than "metal".

Cypress dimensions are 85x43x32mm with a weight of 188 grams
M2 dimensions are 85x45x23mm with a weight of 220 grams
Vigil dimensions are 102x51x20mm with a weight of 400 grams

So the M2 is the smallest out of the three and weighs just slightly more than a Cypress, but almost half of what a Vigil weighs.

The M2 opening altitudes can be manipulated as well, but straight out of the box, it is 885 ft., which is not only the highest default of the three, but sufficient.

But like I said. My first one. I had no brand bias. I just looked them over and picked one that I thought was the best purchase option.

[virgin-burner 1]

fair enough..

personally, i'm a cypres2 owner. and really, if you want to save a couple bucks, why not buy a BASErig? no AAD's, only one parachute.. much cheaper!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[jbscout2002 1]

virgin-burner

fair enough..

personally, i'm a cypres2 owner. and really, if you want to save a couple bucks, why not buy a BASErig? no AAD's, only one parachute.. much cheaper!

It won't be long before I'm shopping for one. I only care about saving money so I can feel better about spending it.

[virgin-burner 1]

jbscout2002

***fair enough..

personally, i'm a cypres2 owner. and really, if you want to save a couple bucks, why not buy a BASErig? no AAD's, only one parachute.. much cheaper!

It won't be long before I'm shopping for one. I only care about saving money so I can feel better about spending it.

with 50 jumps in 3yrs. good going! let's hope you keep them gopro's rolling so the younglins have another lesson in the "this is how you could die"-video, or just the "bounce"-video.

i like my cypres2, and when it's over and done with in 4yrs, most likely i'll get another one. and feel very confident it wont kill me, kill others or just take a plane down. and very confident it'll save my sorry ass when shit hits the fan.

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[jbscout2002 1]

virgin-burner

******fair enough..

personally, i'm a cypres2 owner. and really, if you want to save a couple bucks, why not buy a BASErig? no AAD's, only one parachute.. much cheaper!

It won't be long before I'm shopping for one. I only care about saving money so I can feel better about spending it.

with 50 jumps in 3yrs. good going! let's hope you keep them gopro's rolling so the younglins have another lesson in the "this is how you could die"-video, or just the "bounce"-video.

i like my cypres2, and when it's over and done with in 4yrs, most likely i'll get another one. and feel very confident it wont kill me, kill others or just take a plane down. and very confident it'll save my sorry ass when shit hits the fan.
Well between you and me, I have a couple more than 50, but I like to weed out the people who judge what I have to say based solely on the size of my (jump) log.

I'm not in a hurry for BASE jumping right now, but I do want to do the course at Twin Falls and get into it eventually. Like you said, cheaper rig, and jumping off fixed objects is free.

I'm not trying to sell the M2, I just see this thread popping up and only the Vigil and Cypress really get talked about. I decided to give it a shot and then give my reasons why. If it ends up being a POS then I'll post all about it.

[lyosha 48]

jbscout2002

So the M2 is the smallest out of the three and weighs just slightly more than a Cypress, but almost half of what a Vigil weighs.

Heaven forbid your AAD weighs 200 grams too much!

jbscout2002

... 885 ft., which is ... sufficient.

That's a pretty bold and general statement. Care to comment on what logic led to it? Because I can provide some counter examples where it wasn't...

[jbscout2002 1]

lyosha

***So the M2 is the smallest out of the three and weighs just slightly more than a Cypress, but almost half of what a Vigil weighs.

Heaven forbid your AAD weighs 200 grams too much!

jbscout2002

... 885 ft., which is ... sufficient.

That's a pretty bold and general statement. Care to comment on what logic led to it? Because I can provide some counter examples where it wasn't...

If you already have your nifty little Cypres gift basket, then by all means, rock out with your c*** out.

If you are all set up with your with your Vigil, then jam out with your clam out.

Size and weight are negligible as far as I'm concerned. I'm starting from scratch, so I have no vested interest in either of the 3. The M2 price was right. Then I asked myself why so cheap? Oh hey are new. It's medal va. plastic, highest firing altitude, I'll give them a shot.

The thought never crossed my mind to manually change the altitude. I already figured why not the M2 and then 885 looked better than 750. As far as manually changing it, I figure it comes from the factory set for what the designer determined to be the optimal firing altitude, so why tamper.

If you tamper, know what you are doing. C and D can open at 2500. You're a big boy like me and doing a big way, people dick around and break off a little low, I automatically sink. The original plan was I pull in place, being a newb. I thought I should give a couple seconds to make sure everyone was clear of me before I pulled. According to the AltiTrack I'm in the saddle at 1600. (Theoretical scenario of course )

Guess I'm trying to say there is a balance of having the AAD fire and your reserve fully opens and picks up a glide while you are out cold going about 150. Flip side is being inexperienced, a little bit dumb, and having time to get open, but still getting screwed to a two out.

[jbscout2002 1]

The more direct answer to your question is that it was all some monkey math random jbscout logic.

Picking one was a roll of the dice for me. I went economy on the AAD and sprung for the Optimum reserve.

The M2 actually doesn't change activation altitude like the Cypres 2. You can jockey the DZ offset in the morning and be good for the day. So you can adjust it how you want, but using that method for that day.

[mxk 1]

Allow me to express your predicament in comic form:

[inline adds.png]

More seriously though, the responses you're getting is not because of what you chose, but because of how you chose it. Price is a valid reason, but as others have mentioned, you can, and I would say should, change the firing altitude of both CYPRES and Vigil. No, this is not some advanced feature for expert use, and no, "optimal firing altitude" was not the selection criteria (think more along the lines of "how low can we go"). If someone gave me an M2 and told me to jump it, I would still want the firing altitude higher than 885 ft.

You're right that there is a balance between firing too early and too late. However, a two-out situation is 1) most likely survivable, and 2) can be avoided through training, altitude awareness, and knowing when to go straight to reserve.

[jbscout2002 1]

Pictures I can understand. I figured it was like Cypres = Chevy, Vigil = Ford, and M2 = Toyota or something. If you grew up on one, that is the best one.

So what is the best altitude then?

[mxk 1]

Vigil 2+ defaults to 1,100 (840 in the burble) and I increased that by an additional 150 ft, so I would expect mine to fire roughly in the 990 - 1,250 ft range, depending on body position. That's not the "best" altitude, but rather the altitude that I felt was best for me, my gear, and the types of jumps that I'm doing. Going up another 150 ft would probably be too high, given that the manual recommends being under an open main at least 1,000 ft above the firing altitude.

[mirino 0]

FataMorgana

Hi Mirino,

Since, one of your AAD choices is M2 I wonder whether you could provide some more background info on the immediate ban on MPAAD issued in the Czech Republic on Sep 23 .

http://www.caa.cz/file/7994

Hi FataMorgana,

yes I can answer this question - MPAAD is the system without cables - everything including cutter is in one box on the bottom of the container. The ban is not global but the ban is for students and skydivers with A and B license. In the other words for skydivers which are mostly using big bulky canopies with long closing loops. Problem with this system is that it cuts closing loop at the bottom of the container and after cutting the length of closing loop is still too long and closing loop needs to snake out of the bootom container, reserve canopy, closing flaps, reserve pilote chute.. There was an problem that long cutted closing loop get stuck somewhere in the rig and this cause some malfunction. The m2 is complete different system. Few years ago I also have an MPAAD in one of my rig but I rather change it because I like safer AAD. M2 or Cypres, vigil have cutter located in my rig in one of the closing flap of reserve so it cuts closing loop much closer to pin.

Also the big advantage of m2 is the informations what I can get it from after jump. cypres gives me only the jump counter. The m2 gives me this useful info after every jump:
1. Opening altitude of the last jump
2. jump counter
3. GRAVITY index of the last jump (maximum falling speed of the last jump in the activation zone expressed in percentage, while 100% is the activation speed of the device version currently being used)