Reserve Closing Loop Material

[jws3 0]

The Cypres2 manual says that you have to use the Cypres disc and loop material, but it seems like the manuals for most containers don't specify. For example, I don't see anything in the Wings manual saying that you have to use Cypres loop material. Some manuals seem to recommend it, but not strictly require it.

Does anyone use something other than Cypres loop material (like 725lb Spectra) when packing a reserve with no AAD? Just curious.

[RiggerLee 61]

Absolutely, Why have a shitty loop if you don't have to?

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[jws3 0]

That's kind of what I was thinking. I ask because I'm a newer rigger and I learned to just always use the Cypres loop material regardless of whether or not the rig has an AAD. It seems like most of the newer riggers I've talked to learned the same thing.

It seems like a common practice but I noticed that the manuals don't necessarily say you have to. Since the right answer to everything is "follow the manufacturer's instructions," I started wondering if regular 725-lb Spectra would be better if the rig doesn't have an AAD.

Are there any advantages to the Cypres loop material other than just fitting through the narrow cutter opening more easily? Do you still use the silicon gel when you use something other than Cypres loop material?

[RiggerLee 61]

Keep in mind that cypress loop is not the standard loop material, type 2a is. It often isn't specified so we often used 500 lb or 725 specter. 500 makes a great loop. Then along comes the cypress and all of a sudden you're stuck with their loop. Most rigs do have some form of aad so... And the silicone thing. It because the rig will not open properly if the cutter fires and cuts the loop way down in the tray. It will lock up and total. So they came up with this snot to try to make the system work. End of story. No cutter no need for snot. Some people say that cypress cord has a lower friction coefficient then 2a but since you're evaluating the pull force after you close it that's not really an issue. It just means you may not be able to pack rigs as tight. 500 and 725 are so much stronger and have a much nicer finish, less prone to abrasion or breaking, I think they make great loops.

Keep in mind that these are all my personal opinions. In an hour or so when every one else wakes up you'll hear the opposite side of the story.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[peek 20]

I prefer to use the "standard" (e.g. TYPE IIA SLEEVING, ParaGear W9680) unless I specifically need to use something else. The reason is that I do not pack extremely tight rigs and that the friction of the Type IIA Sleeving with the ripcord pin is appropriate for these rigs.

Does anyone know if any rig manufacturer specifies anything but Type IIA Sleeving for rigs that don't have an AAD? Or do they specify any material at all any more? (I have not done much of a search in newer manuals.)

I realize that it has become very common to use "Cypres loop" material, and that no one seems to have a problem with it, but it also seems like a lot of people use it because rigs have become so damn tight that some people probably think they need that much strength.

[riggerrob 558]

Installing a Cypres loop will drop ripcord pull force by about 5 pounds ..compared with a similar-length closing loop made of (300 pound) nylon, because of the smaller cross-section and lubrication.

[riggerrob 558]

When packing reserves without electronic AADs (Argus, Astra, Cypres, Maars, Vigil, etc.) I tend to use 800 or 1,000 pound Spectra suspension line. The coated suspension line lasts longer.
I also use 800 or 1,000 pound Spectra when replacing loops in pilot emergency parachutes.

[RiggerLee 61]

The difference in pull force is a product of the coefficient of fiction. Poly ethylene is just a slippery material. The diameter of the loop is a wash. Smaller loop means higher PSI, wider lower PSI. It balances. The snot probable helps. It seems to me to get a little dry and tacky over time. but a lubricant like that would act the same regardless of the material of the loop.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[erdnarob 1]

Cypres loop here, Cypres washer there... hey guys, you forget the loop material and beautiful washers available from Vigil.
The Deenyma line is quite similar to the Cypres counterpart. But the Vigil washer is way easier to deal with when comes the time to ajust the loop length. The Vigil washer is also stronger and doesn't bend. Vigil has also developped a new washer made of metal powder pressed at high pressure and temperature. That process get a washer with no sharp edges to be removed.
See the Deenyma line and the washer on the picture.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[gowlerk 1,910]

Yea sure, but every new Vigil I've installed has come with Cypres washers in the box for some reason. I've installed at least six brand new ones. I've never seen a single Vigil washer, just pictures.

Edit: I just realized that Vigils have not come with Cypres washers, they've come with no washer at all, you have to come up with one yourself. M2s come with Cypres washers.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[koppel 3]

Did the M2 come with a disc that Had CYPRES stamped on it or just a disc that looked like the cypres disc?

I installed one recently but don't recall seeing cypres on it, perhaps I should have turned it over?

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[erdnarob 1]

I have had new Vigil to install several times but for sure, there are no Cypres washers into the aluminum suitcase provided with it. I would say that UPT have thousands of Cypres washers to let go and they include them when shipping the whole assembly. But if you ask Vigil America or Vigil Belgium to provide you as a rigger with their own washers, I am sure they will send you a small amount of them.

Here is the explanation sheet provided to perform a closing loop set up (see picture)

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[gowlerk 1,910]

Hmmm... when I get home I'll let you know if they are Smileys or copies.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[dpreguy 14]

Except for diagrams. (And the pictures - pictures of them are a first for me) I've never seen a Vigil washer. When Vigils come brand new in the nice aluminum box there are no washers or loop material. That these washers even exist is, so far, not a reality .....just diagrams on a piece of paper. No one I know has ever seen an actual one and no Vigil rig I've had come in has ever had one either.

(Bending a Cypres washer? I've heard of it, but man....that's a "lotta force" to bend one. Can't imagine a 22 lb pull consistent with the force for a bent Cypres washer.)

[mark 102]

dpreguy

That these washers even exist is, so far, not a reality .....just diagrams on a piece of paper. No one I know has ever seen an actual one and no Vigil rig I've had come in has ever had one either.

Now you know someone who has seen one:

[inline Vigil-Stuff.jpg]

[dpreguy 14]

I've never seen any washers of any kind show up in a new Vigil suitcase box, let alone the notched Vigil ones. If the picture is to show what comes in the aluminum suitcase, ....well that would be a first for me. I have only had a few-maybe 3 or 4 come in. Except when one came in a shipping box, the owners have walked in with brand new Vigil boxes, and no loops- no washers- of any kind. I hope they will start putting something in. Preferably their own notched washers.
(Then I'd have to read the diagrams and figure out how to tie them. I can do that.)

[Unstable 8]

Quote

I've never seen any washers of any kind show up in a new Vigil suitcase box, let alone the notched Vigil ones. If the picture is to show what comes in the aluminum suitcase, ....well that would be a first for me. I have only had a few-maybe 3 or 4 come in.

I've seen one new vigil come with the notched closing loops. I used them, but I fail to understand how they are easier and/or save any time in making a correct closing loop. I know that after I pre-stretch a Cypres loop, measure, tie the final knot, and then stretch again, I will expect ~7mm from my original length for loops less than 75mm, and about 10mm for loops longer, and I can almost always get a closing loop (final length) within ±3mm. The new notched washers threw off my system.

=========Shaun ==========

[koppel 3]

gowlerk

Hmmm... when I get home I'll let you know if they are Smileys or copies.

Thanks

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[jws3 0]

When you use a thicker material like Spectra or Type IIA as a closing loop, what do you use as a washer?

[councilman24 36]

A washer. Seriously Look at your main loop. A washer. Same thing.

I actually started using Pop Rivet backer washers. Washer shaped but thicker so won't bend. On either washers or backer plates I use something to take any burr off the inside edge. What's handy is the tail end of the file in my rigging case.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[dpreguy 14]

"Fender Washers". Small hole is just right! Buy a box from Ace hardware. When you see it you will know the size. I'm at home now and don't have them in front of me. Don't use "machine washers" as they have a big hole - too big.

[dpreguy 14]

Forgot to mention. Since they are punched, the 'Fender Washers' have a wonderful smooth side. No need to take off any sharp edge or burr. Use right out of the box. Any hardware store. They are about the size as a dime. Of course
you back the knot up to the smooth side, not the 'cut ' side.

[Boogers 0]

dpreguy

"Fender Washers". Small hole is just right! Buy a box from Ace hardware. When you see it you will know the size. I'm at home now and don't have them in front of me. Don't use "machine washers" as they have a big hole - too big.

Had to look that up.
http://www.homedepot.com/b/Tools-Hardware-Hardware-Fasteners-Washer-Fasteners-Fender-Washers/N-5yc1vZc283

Looks like a variety of hole and diameter sizes. What do you recommend?

[dpreguy 14]

The one that is "just larger than a dime". ( The problem with ordering off the internet, is all you have is pictures or drawings. I can't tell from the drawings. I saw) I am home now and not at the loft. I will get the size off the box when I go back to the loft and repost.

[koppel 3]

dpreguy

Except for diagrams. (And the pictures - pictures of them are a first for me) I've never seen a Vigil washer. When Vigils come brand new in the nice aluminum box there are no washers or loop material. That these washers even exist is, so far, not a reality .....just diagrams on a piece of paper. No one I know has ever seen an actual one and no Vigil rig I've had come in has ever had one either.

(Bending a Cypres washer? I've heard of it, but man....that's a "lotta force" to bend one. Can't imagine a 22 lb pull consistent with the force for a bent Cypres washer.)

After reading this thread a few days ago, yesterday I saw for he very first time a Vigil washer when inspecting a rig coming through the loft for the first time. They are real! Now where is Sasquatch......


For those of you unfamiliar with the cypres discs that failed here is the link

http://www.pia.com/piapubs/ServiceBulletins/CYPRES_disc_update.pdf

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.