Changing Vigil II activation altitude

[sundevil777 93]

Skydivesg

******

Quote

The only thing you change is the altitude at which the unit fires.

In my opinion, that would be a really bad decision by those that designed the Vigil.

It means that for some scenarios the unit will not be able to activate when it ought to be able to do so.

If the landing zone is below the takeoff altitude, then the unit cannot fire at some altitudes where a save is still possible.
There might be some other scenarios that could also have bad, unintended consequences.

OK - I see your point.

If I were jumping (on a regular basis) at a DZ with a significantly higher take off location than the landing zone I would simply do as the manual states - go to the landing zone to turn on my Vigil. If it were only a once in a while situation (since most of my jumps have been without the aid of an AAD) I would simply take my chance that I could handle it.

I believe that scenario is much less likely than an average skydiver taking off and landing at the same elevation, as do most of us, who simply wants to increase the "Activation Altitude" without affecting the 150 feet arm/disarm (aka "Airborne Mode") altitude.



Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

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I'm really surprised that the manual would make instructions to do as you suggest, "do as the manual states - go to the landing zone to turn on my Vigil."

I would expect there to be the possibility that the unit could see a slow "climb" back to the takeoff point (higher altitude) as a change in the weather, and compensate for the pressure change. The unit would no longer be "set" to the actual landing zone. Perhaps the Vigil does not adjust for pressure changes throughout the day? I'm too lazy to go looking through their manual.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[pchapman 261]

Both Cypres and Vigil manuals say to turn the AAD off and back on at the takeoff location, if your LZ is at a significantly different elevation than the takeoff.

Any offset for LZ location is retained for the Vigil, and for newer Cypres'. (Older Cypres before about 2006, required the offset to be entered each jump.)

All Cypres' have a "dropzone offset" for different takeoff and landing altitudes. The newest Cypres' (Jan 2013+ for manufacture or maintenance) also have an actual "User-selectable activation altitude" just for changing firing height above normal ground level. I would guess that this is response to criticism that their activation height of 750', chosen back in about 1990, is too low for some people nowadays.

The Vigil only has the "altitude correction" which is for a landing zone offset, NOT specifically designed for adjusting firing height above ground (even if it is sometimes used that way).

Adding to the complexity, remember that while the Cypres disarms at 130' when coming down, the Vigil does not. (That 130' doesn't change if setting the Cypris's user-selectable activation altitude)

And the Cypres requires a climb to 1500' to arm, while the Vigil needs a + or - change of 150' to arm (no matter what altitude correction is used).

At least, that's what I think I'm reading in the manuals...

A fundamental problem with the user interface with both designs is that one can't tell exactly what the AAD is thinking when you are on the ground. ("Does it think we are at the ground here at the takeoff point, or does it think we are airborne or something?") However, one might get a clue if watching a Vigil closely during climbout, for the 3 red flashes when Activation Altitude is reached.

[Skydivesg 6]

I actually edited my post as I'm not certain the manual states what I suggest.

However, I would still do it.

Once you have climbed 150 feet in elevation (the drive to the significantly higher take off zone) the Vigil enters "Airborne Mode" and stays in that mode until it gets back to "Ground Zero" (the location it was turned on). If I'm driving to a significantly higher take off zone it should not take very long to climb 150 feet.

As long as I'm jumping over the landing zone the Vigil is set for that landing location.

Maybe the better option would be to turn on the Vigil at the take off zone and set an "Altitude Correction" of minus the number of feet at the landing zone.

I jump in the flat lands so I've never needed to give much thought to this. I think it's worthy of more research. Definitely not as easy as just setting your device to always add 300 feet to the firing altitude.

The Vigil does re-calibrate for barometric pressure every 32 seconds.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[fehn 0]

I do not believe your assumption that the "Ground Zero" point is static can be true.

Working under your assumptions, the Vigil II would never fire if you set your Altitude Correction for and LZ at least 900 feet below the take-off point. Let me explain myself more thoroughly.

If your landing area is at sea-level (0 ft) and the take-off area is at 900 ft., then under your asssumptions, the Vigil will deactivate at an elevation of 1050 ft. because you have only adjusted the deployment altitude(which is now 1,040 ft. max), not the ground zero altitude (which is 900 ft.). Since the activation altitude (1,040 ft.) has been adjusted to below the elevation of ground-zero + 150 ft (1,050 ft.), the Vigil will never fire.

The Vigil allows the LZ to be set as far as 6,000' below take-off point. I seriously doubt they sell a product that could be totally disabled that easily.

[erdnarob 1]

Warning here : It seems that the trend now for some jumpers is to get the AAD activation altitude higher than what the manufacturer has set up.
Doing so can solve a problem while generating another one especially when doing group jumping. You never know, after the separation from a freefall group when, and for several reasons, you will have to postpone the deployment. Traffic, people above or under you, people too near, a person having cut away below you...etc
Sometimes, it's wise to wait 2-3 more seconds for avoidance purpose when a collision can occur. In that kind of situation, having increased the AAD activation altitude to, for instance, 1200 ft, can bring you in the canopy deployment vertical distance range. Some canopies need up to 1000 ft to deploy. If it's the case and you pull at 2000 ft because of traffic, you have a lot of chance to get two parachutes out. Now, if your two parachutes get into a biplane configuration, no problem if you handle it correctly. But two out canopies can also entangle each other or worst get into a down plane configuration.
Another important point is to make sure that your rigger closes your reserve container properly according the manufacturer specifications. Especially the placement of the bridle cord and pilot chute. This placement can make a big difference for the reserve deployment vertical distance.
Think about this before changing the actication altitude.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[clustermagnet 0]

Folks, Can someone do the math for me? :) (without doing the obvious dz.com bs) :)

Situation: Jumper pulls at 2K feet, Canopy Crossfire2 opens ~1K feet, loading ~2.0. Vigil2 Pro.

Is the jumper in danger of setting off the AAD under normal opening conditions (no twists/mals) ? I was always under impression the AADs fire ~750ft. But now reading the manual it seems this number is somewhere between 840 and 1100...

My knee-jerk answer is that you're close, but still OK, as your rate of descent is much slower than 78mhp.

Thanks!

[megamalfunction 1]

I hate it when people open the door at 1000 ft. Can't we wait till 2 grand before we open up the door? (My AAD is set on 'PRO', but still...)

Quote

Aircraft flight:
--"when opening the door of an aircraft during flight and while in the activation zone (below 500 m or 1.640 ft), it should be verified if there are any Vigils on board set in Student Mode. Certain aircrafts can create a pressure spike that can activate a Vigil AAD when it’s set in Student Mode" (Vigil II owners manual pg 21)

[clustermagnet 0]

megamalfunction

I hate it when people open the door at 1000 ft. Can't we wait till 2 grand before we open up the door?

no, dont be a pussy. keep it open all the way

[sundevil777 93]

clustermagnet

Folks, Can someone do the math for me? :) (without doing the obvious dz.com bs) :)

Situation: Jumper pulls at 2K feet, Canopy Crossfire2 opens ~1K feet, loading ~2.0. Vigil2 Pro.

Is the jumper in danger of setting off the AAD under normal opening conditions (no twists/mals) ? I was always under impression the AADs fire ~750ft. But now reading the manual it seems this number is somewhere between 840 and 1100...

My knee-jerk answer is that you're close, but still OK, as your rate of descent is much slower than 78mhp.

Thanks!

In earlier threads about AAD activations, it has been discussed at length that you will get a higher activation if in a vertical orientation ( than if belly down. When a cypres is said that it will activate at 750 or 800 ft or whatever exactly it is, that is in a belly down orientation. The transition from belly to vertical also results in a quick pressure change that appears high speed to the pressure sensor, so getting stood up by your canopy above 1000 or whatever can result in an activation.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am